Waste Management & EJA

[bizjetman]

We are not screen readers but Flight Managers...

 

[NJAowner]

Tips

Lord Wakefield wants tips but also wants to be treated like a "professional". Tips are given to waiters, taxi drivers, valet parking attendants and bell hops. People usually do not give tips to professionals -- doctors, lawyers, accountants, pilots on major airlines, captains of the cruise ship. Please decide which category you believe you are in and be consistent for all purposes.

Have I ever given a pilot a tip -- no. Have I picked up their crew food at a different airport when weather caused a change or airports so they would not be hungry - yes. Have I treated them to dinner at a local great dining spot when they have been exceptional -- yes. Do I (not a pilot) give the line personnel $10 or $20 when they actually help - yes. Have I shared my meal on a jet when a pilots is not delivered -- probably 4 times per year.

How do I actually tip a professional to whom I trust the lives of my employees and family. Even if I gave you $100 each, it is not adequate but you are a professional. I would no sooner tip my doctor who operated on me or delivered my children. Once you start soliciting and accepting tips you have gone down that slippery slope from "professional" to who knows what.

Do I support the pilots -- yes. Read my prior posts and many have my PMs on ways to help the pilots. I think it can be done as long as attitudes and egos are left on the sidelines (difficult for union officials AND corp. executives both).

Please don't take this as anti-pilot. I am pro-pilot. But if you want to be a "professional", act like one and don't expect tips. The fact that an owner's assistant or baby sitter may make more than a pilot is a function of personal issues and redundancy, not your skills, Please see many prior posts by me. In fact while we pay our child sitter well, the local grass cutter is paid more per hour. It is not a function of responsibility or skill but "supply an ddemand". It drives my wife nuts that the grass cutter make more per hour (more per hour than a regional pilot as well in many cases). If responsibility were the main component in compensation, we would not see car salesman making over $125K per year.

Good luck; fly safe. I apologize for typos, it is late.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

The "tips" issue was not directed towards the owners who treat us professionally by not giving them to us (although considering our finances, few would refuse them) It was directed towards a company that feels the need to tell the owners this because they would not want the owners to know what we're paid. Sort of like the few Regional Airlines that have policies prohibiting pilots from picking up food stamps in uniform.

Thanks for the meals. It's nice to know there are a lot of owners like you. I've taken my crew meal and made it look like catering a few times too.

It's all matter of who treats us like "highly paid professionals." Sometimes we are and other times we're treated like children.

 

[SenorSpielbergo]

Good to see there is such harmony and cooperation at "Team Netjets". Good times, good times.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Mr "NJAowner"

Dear Mr NJAowner:

Lord Wakefield wants tips but also wants to be treated like a "professional".

By that theory, you behave towards waiters, valets, and taxi drivers differently than a "professional". You base your behavior on social status. How nice of you.

I think it can be done as long as attitudes and egos are left on the sidelines

"Attitudes and egos", I think we all know who is projecting the elitist attitude here.

Once you start soliciting and accepting tips you have gone down that slippery slope from "professional" to who knows what.

How dare us fall from being "professional". Again, you prove to us that you look down upon anyone but what you envision as a professional.

But if you want to be a "professional", act like one and don't expect tips.

Expecting tips has nothing to do with being a professional. It has to do with character and circumstance.

I tested this theory personally a few weeks ago. We picked up the wife of an NFL player. The limo driver handed me all the bags out of the trunk and I loaded them into the airplane. She gave the limo driver a $100 tip. Arriving at our destination I wanted to test the theory, so I personally unloaded all the bags and carted them 50 yards to the limo and loaded them into the trunk. She then looks at me and says, "you didn't have to do all that, thank you so much." And guess what, no tip.

I went above and beyond of what is expected of me and, she acknowledged that verbally. Do I ever "expect" a tip for these things, no. But, I believe I did deserve a tip. Why she didn't is because people assume pilots are rich. And, that is the wrong reason for not tipping someone. Tip someone because they went above the call of duty regardless of their social status. And, tipping doesn't always have to be monetary either.

The fact that an owner's assistant or baby sitter may make more than a pilot is a function of personal issues and redundancy, not your skills

Making more money has to do with personal issues? Are you smoking crack?

Last question Mr NJAowner: Why would an elitist professional such as yourself be doing mingling with us lowlifes on this message board for pilots??? Why would you be here reading all of this?? That is very "unprofessional" of you to be posting about the people whom you put your life in their hands. And whoever said you were a NJA owner anyway? You're probably a college student with nothing else better to do since the vaseline ran out.

Go sell crazy some place else. We're all stocked up here.

 

[gear_guy]

Dear Mr NJAowner:


By that theory, you behave towards waiters, valets, and taxi drivers differently than a "professional". You base your behavior on social status. How nice of you.



"Attitudes and egos", I think we all know who is projecting the elitist attitude here.



How dare us fall from being "professional". Again, you prove to us that you look down upon anyone but what you envision as a professional.


Expecting tips has nothing to do with being a professional. It has to do with character and circumstance.

I tested this theory personally a few weeks ago. We picked up the wife of an NFL player. The limo driver handed me all the bags out of the trunk and I loaded them into the airplane. She gave the limo driver a $100 tip. Arriving at our destination I wanted to test the theory, so I personally unloaded all the bags and carted them 50 yards to the limo and loaded them into the trunk. She then looks at me and says, "you didn't have to do all that, thank you so much." And guess what, no tip.

I went above and beyond of what is expected of me and, she acknowledged that verbally. Do I ever "expect" a tip for these things, no. But, I believe I did deserve a tip. Why she didn't is because people assume pilots are rich. And, that is the wrong reason for not tipping someone. Tip someone because they went above the call of duty regardless of their social status. And, tipping doesn't always have to be monetary either.

Making more money has to do with personal issues? Are you smoking crack?

Last question Mr NJAowner: Why would an elitist professional such as yourself be doing mingling with us lowlifes on this message board for pilots??? Why would you be here reading all of this?? That is very "unprofessional" of you to be posting about the people whom you put your life in their hands. And whoever said you were a NJA owner anyway? You're probably a college student with nothing else better to do since the vaseline ran out.

Go sell crazy some place else. We're all stocked up here.

Wow! I must be crazy too. Is it customary to treat your customers this way? I would be careful biting the hand that feeds you. If I ever win the lottery(not likely), I think I'll use FLOPS. NJAowner, I suggest you do the same. No wonder you guys get paid that way. I think you have a few guys with attitude problems draggin the whole crowd down. Just my opinion.

 

[PHX767]

Tips - I don't need no stinking tips

I for one was shocked the first time one of my owners handed me a $100 bill and said, great flight - here ya go. I tried to refuse it and he stuffed it in my pocket. Coming from the Military/Flight Instructing/Regional/Majors as I did it was unexpected. I was offended at first, thinking the owner thought of me as he did the limo guy and the doorman. Then I got over it and realized they are just being generous. On the rare occasion when that occurs now, I thank them and then put the cash into my Grandkid's 529 college fund.

I deal with limo drivers by saying, "Come around here and get these bags for me, please." Bend over under that oily engine and earn that tip. Line guys deserve every tip they get - and I tip for service such as doing the dustbuster, windshields, lav ballet, etc. What the heck, I get reimbursed for them.

 

[Majik]

Except for very rare occasions, I don't throw bags for NetJets passengers anymore. I let the rampers load and unload the luggage and give them the $5 that NetJets authorizes. I supervise to make sure they don't take off crew luggage and that they load it properly. If there's no ramper around, I go look for one. Takes an extra 15 minutes sometimes, but I have 14 hours to work with. Landed at a field the other day where there were no rampers available (a municiple FBO). I unloaded the bags behind the wing, told the pax to have a nice day, grabbed my FO and we went inside the plane to fill out the logbook and pick up the trash. We watched them through the window as they stood there with puzzled looks on their faces. After a minute they began making multiple trips from the plane to the FBO to recover their numerous bags. My back feels much better and I have enjoyed my job much more since I adopted this new policy. Who needs or expects tips? Not me...

Don't Worry, Be Happy!

 

[cosmotheassman]

That's some cold hearted $hit Majik. And I like it! You're my hero!

 

[bizjetman]

You wonder why you do not get a tip.........

 

[Lord Wakefield]

deleted

 

[Lord Wakefield]

delete

 

[Majik]

You wonder why you do not get a tip.........

No, you are wrong... I USED to wonder why the line guys got the tip when I did their job. I finally wised up and let them EARN their tip instead of doing their work for them. I think everyone is much happier now. I know I sure am. NJA Owner is right! As a professional, I should not expect a tip for loading and unloading bags into the limo, since that's not my job. I am a professional and throwing bags is not what a professional would do. I supervise that the bags are loaded/unloaded properly and get the pax safely from point A to B. If throwing bags was part of my job description (which it isn't) then I'd have to reconsider. You guys that are doing all of that extra stuff and expecting $omething extra are going to continue to be di$appointed. If it gives you a warm feeling, then go ahead.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

deleted

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

I love to make the Limo guys load bags... I love the way they show up at the aircraft and just stand there with their hands folded waiting for the bags to load themselves..
Line guys, just point at the bags and tell'em where to put them.. If they don't help and show up for the tip after the bags are loaded just walk into the FBO and talk to the manager.. It works!!
Let'em load and unload the bags in the aircraft too, its their job... That's one of the reasons why it takes an hour to turn a plane!!!