Waste Management & EJA

[gear_guy]

Dear Mr NJAowner:


By that theory, you behave towards waiters, valets, and taxi drivers differently than a "professional". You base your behavior on social status. How nice of you.



"Attitudes and egos", I think we all know who is projecting the elitist attitude here.



How dare us fall from being "professional". Again, you prove to us that you look down upon anyone but what you envision as a professional.


Expecting tips has nothing to do with being a professional. It has to do with character and circumstance.

I tested this theory personally a few weeks ago. We picked up the wife of an NFL player. The limo driver handed me all the bags out of the trunk and I loaded them into the airplane. She gave the limo driver a $100 tip. Arriving at our destination I wanted to test the theory, so I personally unloaded all the bags and carted them 50 yards to the limo and loaded them into the trunk. She then looks at me and says, "you didn't have to do all that, thank you so much." And guess what, no tip.

I went above and beyond of what is expected of me and, she acknowledged that verbally. Do I ever "expect" a tip for these things, no. But, I believe I did deserve a tip. Why she didn't is because people assume pilots are rich. And, that is the wrong reason for not tipping someone. Tip someone because they went above the call of duty regardless of their social status. And, tipping doesn't always have to be monetary either.

Making more money has to do with personal issues? Are you smoking crack?

Last question Mr NJAowner: Why would an elitist professional such as yourself be doing mingling with us lowlifes on this message board for pilots??? Why would you be here reading all of this?? That is very "unprofessional" of you to be posting about the people whom you put your life in their hands. And whoever said you were a NJA owner anyway? You're probably a college student with nothing else better to do since the vaseline ran out.

Go sell crazy some place else. We're all stocked up here.

Wow! I must be crazy too. Is it customary to treat your customers this way? I would be careful biting the hand that feeds you. If I ever win the lottery(not likely), I think I'll use FLOPS. NJAowner, I suggest you do the same. No wonder you guys get paid that way. I think you have a few guys with attitude problems draggin the whole crowd down. Just my opinion.

 

[PHX767]

Tips - I don't need no stinking tips

I for one was shocked the first time one of my owners handed me a $100 bill and said, great flight - here ya go. I tried to refuse it and he stuffed it in my pocket. Coming from the Military/Flight Instructing/Regional/Majors as I did it was unexpected. I was offended at first, thinking the owner thought of me as he did the limo guy and the doorman. Then I got over it and realized they are just being generous. On the rare occasion when that occurs now, I thank them and then put the cash into my Grandkid's 529 college fund.

I deal with limo drivers by saying, "Come around here and get these bags for me, please." Bend over under that oily engine and earn that tip. Line guys deserve every tip they get - and I tip for service such as doing the dustbuster, windshields, lav ballet, etc. What the heck, I get reimbursed for them.

 

[Majik]

Except for very rare occasions, I don't throw bags for NetJets passengers anymore. I let the rampers load and unload the luggage and give them the $5 that NetJets authorizes. I supervise to make sure they don't take off crew luggage and that they load it properly. If there's no ramper around, I go look for one. Takes an extra 15 minutes sometimes, but I have 14 hours to work with. Landed at a field the other day where there were no rampers available (a municiple FBO). I unloaded the bags behind the wing, told the pax to have a nice day, grabbed my FO and we went inside the plane to fill out the logbook and pick up the trash. We watched them through the window as they stood there with puzzled looks on their faces. After a minute they began making multiple trips from the plane to the FBO to recover their numerous bags. My back feels much better and I have enjoyed my job much more since I adopted this new policy. Who needs or expects tips? Not me...

Don't Worry, Be Happy!

 

[cosmotheassman]

That's some cold hearted $hit Majik. And I like it! You're my hero!

 

[bizjetman]

You wonder why you do not get a tip.........

 

[Lord Wakefield]

deleted

 

[Lord Wakefield]

delete

 

[Majik]

You wonder why you do not get a tip.........

No, you are wrong... I USED to wonder why the line guys got the tip when I did their job. I finally wised up and let them EARN their tip instead of doing their work for them. I think everyone is much happier now. I know I sure am. NJA Owner is right! As a professional, I should not expect a tip for loading and unloading bags into the limo, since that's not my job. I am a professional and throwing bags is not what a professional would do. I supervise that the bags are loaded/unloaded properly and get the pax safely from point A to B. If throwing bags was part of my job description (which it isn't) then I'd have to reconsider. You guys that are doing all of that extra stuff and expecting $omething extra are going to continue to be di$appointed. If it gives you a warm feeling, then go ahead.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

deleted

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

I love to make the Limo guys load bags... I love the way they show up at the aircraft and just stand there with their hands folded waiting for the bags to load themselves..
Line guys, just point at the bags and tell'em where to put them.. If they don't help and show up for the tip after the bags are loaded just walk into the FBO and talk to the manager.. It works!!
Let'em load and unload the bags in the aircraft too, its their job... That's one of the reasons why it takes an hour to turn a plane!!!

 

[gear_guy]

As a professional, I should not expect a tip for loading and unloading bags into the limo, since that's not my job. I am a professional and throwing bags is not what a professional would do. I supervise that the bags are loaded/unloaded properly and get the pax safely from point A to B. If throwing bags was part of my job description (which it isn't) then I'd have to reconsider. You guys that are doing all of that extra stuff and expecting $omething extra are going to continue to be di$appointed. If it gives you a warm feeling, then go ahead.

Unreal! You don't think doctors and lawyers help pick up their office at the end of a day. I know one that does and he is a pro. You are missing something here. Professionalism is an attitude and a behavior. It has nothing to do with what you do, but rather how you do it. I load bags, get coffee, etc. and I am a professional. Sitting in the cabin while your pax get their own bags is just stupid and dispays your massive yet fragile ego.

I think you should stick to fracs. That stuff won't fly in the corporate world.

 

[NJACrewservicer]

Gear guy, I got news for ya. It doesn't fly here at NJA either. He has just been lucky enough to not been caught. He will though... maybe not tomorrow or next month, but eventually he will be brought in to do the carpet dance.

 

[Majik]

3 questions:

1) How'd you get the line guys to do bags?
I say, "Hey fella's, can ya please come unload these bags?"
2) How long you been doing this?
Been at NJA over 4 years. Been letting the line guys do their job for almost 6 months.
3) How'd you keep your job?
I just make sure I follow my job description to the letter. If NJA wants me to load the trunk of the limo, they'll let me know. If they want me to drive the limo to the country home, they'll let me know that too. Look, why does the FBO hire line guys? To assist the pilots with baggage, catering, coffee, ice, fuel, trash, vacuuming the plane, servicing the lav, etc. What's wrong with letting them do their job? I tip them for their good service, as do some of the owners.

My experience is the line guys disappear as soon as the baggage door opens but magically reappear before the pax leave for a tip. Doesn't even have to be raining. I go look for them or I get on the radio and ask the FBO if they can send someone out to help with the luggage. I normally call about 10 minutes out and let them know what services we will require.
I often wonder how the owners got to be wealthy when they're so oblivious to such conspicuous behaviour. Makes me wonder too, but I haven't had a single complaint in the last 6 months since I started letting everyone do the job they were hired to do.

Look, they are people that simply want to safely get from point A to point B. I provide that service with a smile. I enjoy the job. I spent 4 years trying to do it the other way - by doing everything conceivable that I could think of that went above my job description. I have seen no difference in the passenger's demeanor since I stopped trying to do everyone else's job 6 months ago.

 

[Majik]

Gear guy, I got news for ya. It doesn't fly here at NJA either. He has just been lucky enough to not been caught. He will though... maybe not tomorrow or next month, but eventually he will be brought in to do the carpet dance.

NJACrewservicer - 4 1/2 years and never been called in. One month ago I was briefed after my 4th leg to asap to BED after midnight. Got there and the FBO was darker than the inside of a cow's a$$. Why didn't you call the FBO? Your snafu got me another 1 1/2 hours of OT and messed up scheduling's early trip for me the next day. Same thing happened 3 weeks ago after an asap from MDW to another small fbo. Last trip's crew food was mistakenly ordered for the following day. When I realized your mistake I called the caterer. They couldn't get it delivered in time. PM authorized us to go get a meal and expense it. Your snafu gave us the best meal we had all tour. I can't count the number of times you screw up and I do "your job." I'm not saying I'm perfect but - I'll continue to do my job, how about starting to do yours. If I did my job as well as you do I'd only crash at least once a tour. Instead of holding your breath, waiting for my carpet dance, maybe you should try concentrating on your duties and maybe you'd make fewer mistakes.

 

[Majik]

Unreal! You don't think doctors and lawyers help pick up their office at the end of a day. I know one that does and he is a pro.

I seriously doubt Doctors and Lawyers really clean their offices at the end of the day. I can just see them getting out the vacuum and the mop now, ha ha ha. Unreal is right!!! Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

deleted

 

[gear_guy]

All I am saying is that they(doctors) operate as a team. Maybe you should try it. I hate that you are too good to help your customers with their bags. I guess you would'nt expect that if your were buying a share of your company's aircraft.

BTW- if all they want to do is get from point A to B....why don't they just take the airlines. In fact, I think your marketing department has really missed something here. Maybe they should change their logo to "we'll just get you from A to B." I guess that's what you get when you have the most experienced pilots in the industry(according to website).

 

[Mephisto]

nonsense

Landed at a field the other day where there were no rampers available (a municiple FBO). I unloaded the bags behind the wing, told the pax to have a nice day, grabbed my FO and we went inside the plane to fill out the logbook and pick up the trash. We watched them through the window as they stood there with puzzled looks on their faces. After a minute they began making multiple trips from the plane to the FBO to recover their numerous bags. My back feels much better and I have enjoyed my job much more since I adopted this new policy. Who needs or expects tips? Not me...

I honestly think you are nothing but talk. This kind of treatment would certainly be reported to the folks up in owner services, and it wouldnt be long before you heard from your PM, and you would be disciplined for your actions. Assuming for a moment that you are telling the truth, go ahead, make the owners mad. In fact, make them so mad that they won't renew their contract.

You were hired to provide a SERVICE to the NJA owners, and you are compensated to do so. It's really a pretty simple arrangement. Taking your frustration with this arrangement out on the people that ultimately provide you with that compensation is sheer idiocy. Remind me to never give you anything, for fear of being shot. If you want to hide behind some flawed argument about it "not being in your job description," go ahead. I would be willing to bet you don't even have a copy of your job description.

Go ahead, keep behaving in this manner. If I see you doing it I will call your PM myself and report you. I for one like having HAPPY owners, not ones that are angry. You have an outlet for voicing the problems you have with the company (the MEC), yet you choose to act in an unprofessional manner, and then go on a public website and brag about it. Good job.

 

[Majik]

I honestly think you are nothing but talk. This kind of treatment would certainly be reported to the folks up in owner services, and it wouldnt be long before you heard from your PM, and you would be disciplined for your actions. Assuming for a moment that you are telling the truth, go ahead, make the owners mad. In fact, make them so mad that they won't renew their contract.

You were hired to provide a SERVICE to the NJA owners, and you are compensated to do so. It's really a pretty simple arrangement. Taking your frustration with this arrangement out on the people that ultimately provide you with that compensation is sheer idiocy. Remind me to never give you anything, for fear of being shot. If you want to hide behind some flawed argument about it "not being in your job description," go ahead. I would be willing to bet you don't even have a copy of your job description.

Go ahead, keep behaving in this manner. If I see you doing it I will call your PM myself and report you. I for one like having HAPPY owners, not ones that are angry. You have an outlet for voicing the problems you have with the company (the MEC), yet you choose to act in an unprofessional manner, and then go on a public website and brag about it. Good job.

It did make for a dang good story though, didn't it???
All of the stuff about the crewservice snafu's was true.

 

[x402]

Go ahead, keep behaving in this manner. If I see you doing it I will call your PM myself and report you.

I guess that what we expect out of a few of our 'Brothers," maybe you can shuffle over and help out with those bags, I won't, if the ramp help won't put the bags on a cart to get to the Land Rover, the owner can keep the 5 bucks they were going to give 'em.
Tell George or Dave or Gary Hart, next time you speak with them, the natives are not happy and anything outside of necessary isn't going to happen.

Did you really say you'd report a fellow pilot to the COMPANY? I'll accept,'Sorry I was drunk.'
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