Virgin America Revenue...

[PCL_128]

Said from a guy whose union has allowed its company to outsource its jobs to a non-union carrier (Skywest) and furlough nearly 1500 pilots.

You keep saying that "the union" did these things, while not acknowledging that the union is the pilots, not some nebulous entity in a faraway land. ualdriver and every other line pilot at UAL got a vote on that issue. You don't have a vote on anything. Which sounds better? Voting rights or no voting rights on your future?

 

[NEDude]

You keep saying that "the union" did these things, while not acknowledging that the union is the pilots, not some nebulous entity in a faraway land. ualdriver and every other line pilot at UAL got a vote on that issue. You don't have a vote on anything. Which sounds better? Voting rights or no voting rights on your future?

I have plenty of voting rights on my future. If things go bad I can vote for a union (gasp - I have before - in fact was part of an ALPA organizing committee!!!!!), or I can vote with my feet. You act like I am a victim of indentured servitude and have absolutely no opportunity to ever vote for anything. Get real.

Since you are splitting hairs I will go along with you. The PILOTS who are union members and work for United and Alaska have voted, through their union, to outsource their own jobs to non-union carriers. Feel better now?

 

[Lake Alice]

I have plenty of voting rights on my future. If things go bad I can vote for a union (gasp - I have before - in fact was part of an ALPA organizing committee!!!!!), or I can vote with my feet. You act like I am a victim of indentured servitude and have absolutely no opportunity to ever vote for anything. Get real.

Since you are splitting hairs I will go along with you. The PILOTS who are union members and work for United and Alaska have voted, through their union, to outsource their own jobs to non-union carriers. Feel better now?

I always love this comment. Also the "if you don't like it leave" version. If the union votes for it then that the unions prerogative.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The RJ mentality in full flower....

 

[Mamma]

I have plenty of voting rights on my future. If things go bad I can vote for a union (gasp - I have before - in fact was part of an ALPA organizing committee!!!!!), or I can vote with my feet. You act like I am a victim of indentured servitude and have absolutely no opportunity to ever vote for anything. Get real.

Since you are splitting hairs I will go along with you. The PILOTS who are union members and work for United and Alaska have voted, through their union, to outsource their own jobs to non-union carriers. Feel better now?

I don't recall voting on outsourcing any flying at Alaska Airlines. When did this vote happen and how did our pilot group happen to not hear about it?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Don't interrupt his rants with reality. It only angers him. Write it off to the chip on his black uniformed shoulder.

 

[NEDude]

I always love this comment. Also the "if you don't like it leave" version. If the union votes for it then that the unions prerogative.

And if a pilot group decides not to unionize it is their prerogative. It is their prerogative to decide if/when a union campaign becomes needed.

See that is the issue to begin with here - fubi and other accuse Virgin pilots of killing the profession by not being unionized. But when faced with examples of how unions (or unionized pilot groups since you prefer that wording) have made profession killing decisions, you defend it by saying "they voted on it so all is good", or if you are fubi you just ignore all of those examples.

What you are failing to recognize is that not organizing at this time is just as valid a choice as a union voting on an issue. The Jet Blue pilots voting down ALPA was an entirely democratic choice made by that pilot group. Their choice to do so was just as valid as Spirit pilots voting to strike. Just because you don't like the decision doesn't mean it is not a valid and democratic decision.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You can make any choice you want. Just realize your choices sometimes have unintended consequences.

 

[NEDude]

I don't recall voting on outsourcing any flying at Alaska Airlines. When did this vote happen and how did our pilot group happen to not hear about it?

Oh, you didn't vote for it? My mistake, sorry.


I just assumed your union would have voted for some scope protections and perhaps tried to protect union jobs. Sorry for you short-sightedness and the fact that it is allowing your jobs to go non-union.

Now I suppose you are going to try and defend your union failing to protect its own jobs. This should be interesting to see how you spin that...

 

[Mamma]

You have still not answered the question. Please explain how/when Alaska pilots voted for someone else to do our flying. I must have missed it. I could care less whether you have a union or not. Pilots groups sink or swim by the decisions they make. Some decisions work out some don't. I'm sure your group will do what is best for them.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Those would be Horizon jobs, Ace. Talk to them. They're Teamsters FYI.

 

[Mamma]

Oh, you didn't vote for it? My mistake, sorry.


I just assumed your union would have voted for some scope protections and perhaps tried to protect union jobs. Sorry for you short-sightedness and the fact that it is allowing your jobs to go non-union.

Now I suppose you are going to try and defend your union failing to protect its own jobs. This should be interesting to see how you spin that...

OK. I think you are mistaking Skywest doing flying for Horizon. We do not vote on Horizon's scope language as we are Alaska Airlines. Horizon is not ALPA either so I'm missing the point you are trying to make. BUT, i'll give you another go at it if you so desire.

 

[NEDude]

You have still not answered the question. Please explain how/when Alaska pilots voted for someone else to do our flying. I must have missed it. I could care less whether you have a union or not. Pilots groups sink or swim by the decisions they make. Some decisions work out some don't. I'm sure your group will do what is best for them.

You mean you didn't vote for your contract? I mean every contract out there has scope protections, so obviously yours does as well right? Perhaps you guys just felt there was no need for scope protections so you decided to vote for a contract that had none. In both cases, either by direct vote to allow it, or by voting for a contract that did not include scope protections, union jobs are allowed to be outsourced to a non-union carrier under the provisions of your contract.

 

[NEDude]

OK. I think you are mistaking Skywest doing flying for Horizon. We do not vote on Horizon's scope language as we are Alaska Airlines. Horizon is not ALPA either so I'm missing the point you are trying to make. BUT, i'll give you another go at it if you so desire.

The Skywest contract is with Alaska Airlines, to fly on Alaska Airlines routes. It is not a contract with Horizon. So it should fall under your (apparently non-existent) scope.

 

[Mamma]

The Skywest contract is with Alaska Airlines, to fly on Alaska Airlines routes. It is not a contract with Horizon. So it should fall under your (apparently non-existent) scope.

Are you confusing the Alaska Air Group with Alaska Airlines? I can understand your ignorance if that is the case because many do...especially in the media. The below article was supposed to say "Alaska Air Group." The issue we are having is the branding of aircraft on Horizon's side that now say "Alaska Airlines" when in fact they are not. But as the union expert you are, I'm sure you understand there is a process to go through and that the pilots of Alaska Airlines cannot vote on scope issues with Horizon.

Alaska Airlines Announces Routes, Schedule For New Partner

2/25/2011 5:06 a.m.

SEATTLE — Alaska Airlines today announced that SkyWest Airlines will begin flying six West Coast routes currently operated by Horizon Air, starting May 14. The Utah-based carrier will fly the routes using five 70-seat Bombardier CRJ-700 regional jets it is acquiring from Horizon.

Alaska's partnership with SkyWest for CRJ-700 flying enables Horizon to fly the Bombardier Q400 turboprop exclusively.