USAPA wins appeal!!!!!!

[johnnyb]

But I'm sure you're aware that reordering the seniority list isn't good for the West.

I think you'll find a large number of East pilots who are not married to a DOH list but, ALPA was history, leaving USAPA the only game in town.

Even the appeals court got this part:

the East Pilots had expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

There was simply no way a joint CBA was going to pass membership ratification. We are back to Wye River both pilot groups equally to blame.

 

[get2flyin]

Because the judges don't live in Phoenix!

Of course, under your logic system USAPA doesn't have to represent the former AWA pilots because the union is based in Charlotte? Are you really that stupid or do you just write inflammatory posts for jollies? Either way, my opinion of you is the same.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Outstanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What did you win?

 

[get2flyin]

Ok WOW, a West pilot spewing about integrity in ones career. Uhmmm..excuse me, but EXACTLY WHERE AND AT WHAT LEVEL was the West pilots contract at through the years???? Did the west pilots continually raise the bar to help the profession to new levels of work rules and pay rates????

Did the west pilots strive and able to attain at any point in their career top of industry pay rates??? and work rules????

At ANY TIME IN THE HISTORY of the West were they able to attain this????????

Again you East pilots equate money with integrity. If I make more than you, I must be better than you. Seriously, are these the lessons you teach your children? The West contract continued to get better and better. It was a slow process, but that's how it works. You will understand this better when your USAPA boys bring you a garbage contract. They'll tell you is a foundation to build on. Besides, you and your pals are working on a wildly substandard bankruptcy contract. You are hardly in a position to comment on someone else's contract.

Or did they simply get on with any passenger carrier they could, agreeing to work at substandard wages and work rules, happy to be flying something with a jet engine on it??? Or happy to have a job after 9/11??? Any pay check will do???

Or do I have amnesia and have forgotten how the West pilots were the cream de la cream and the envy of every other airline out there?????

Yes, evidently you do have amnesia. When I got hired here, AWA was the shark in the industry fish tank. I had fellow new-hires from AA, TWA, Northwest, and a bunch of military guys. We had SWA's team mentality with a great route structure and growth. Thanks to eating a rotting whale, that's no longer the case.

No I think it was partially the America West that helped LOWER the bar to the wage levels we currently see the industry at. How else would you be at your HIGHEST pay rates ever. And have the best work rules you currently have????

See my previous post, "a little at a time".

YOU rode the backs of every other pilot out there, and sat on their shoulders, pulling THEM down to your level. Don't give me crap about integrity or how great of a career you were destined for. (Though I guess If I started at San Jose CC and continued to Mesa to Mesa Grande I too would think of the West as an upgrade)

When you don't have anything intelligent to say, spew venom. Classic East post. Just remember, "Mesa Grande" rallied a group of investors together and purchased your about-to-liquidate company. Gosh, that must really sting!

Anyways.... It's sort of like you guys wanting to jump in line and fly those wide bodies to destinations you never dreamed of flying to. At pay rates your airline would never see in your career. Hey I'm sure you were planning on going to a real airline after the industry recovered from 9/11....but here we are.

LOL, it's a merger, stupid. That's how it works. Each group gets access to things they hadn't previously had. Your Western commuters get access to a West hub. You get to fly to Hawaii. Let's be honest here...you get to have a job. And payrates? You work for pay rates I DO hope I'll never see and you have a contract that makes commuter pilots laugh at you. Was that what you thought the West was aspiring for? Oh, wait...you mean the hand full of international flying you do in those junked out 767s or the tiny fleet of A330s? You really believe you East guys are the crown jewel of the industry, don't you. Nobody, myself included, wanted to see you fall of of your high perch...but you did. You were flapping around, gasping for breath on the poop covered newspaper of your career. Thanks to a merger you didn't die and get flushed down the toilet. Only you guys would see this as a chance to step on your fellow industry members to try to reclaim your previous grandeur. I know you have some good guys out East. But you are some what of a joke.

 

[St. Nic]

The west pilots need to realize we are heading for a joint contract within 6 months. you can get aboard the train now or be left at the station. WOO WOO ALLLLL AAAABORAD!

We don't need the west and you guys are about to get what is only fair for all DATE OF HIRE.

Contract in 6 months

 

[charlie2]

Of course, under your logic system USAPA doesn't have to represent the former AWA pilots because the union is based in Charlotte? Are you really that stupid or do you just write inflammatory posts for jollies? Either way, my opinion of you is the same.

I think there was a huge bias because the DFR suit was in Phoenix with a judge and jury from Phoenix, thats all. I'm going to lose alot of sleep tonight because of your opinion of me.

 

[charlie2]

What did you win?

Time.

 

[Crzipilot]

Very long post and not completely worthy of a reply.

Simply put. Integrity as I view it, is looking at a company one is looking towards employment and deciding whether or not it's the type of management, work rules and conditions as I want to work for. As one of my jumpseaters, (who is senior via NIC but jr DOH) put it to me, He looked strictly at how fast he could get the capt seat. He didn't feel as though he needed to wait those long 12 years at those other carriers, AA UAL NWA DAL FEDX UPS etc, to get that coveted seat. He could get there quick at AWest and he will be damned if the east stands in front of his rightful position as capt. Oh yeah. He hired on at 45 and wanted that seat within 3 years...or 5 or whatever. He was willing to work at substandard wages and substandard work rules, for that coveted capt seat.

Many others in the industry actually looked at the employer and refused to put aside our standards simply for the SEAT.

That 4 hour conversation on my jump seat pretty much sealed it for me. He had the little red badge holder, but didn't have the balls to wear it on the flight deck. He did through security and elsewhere, but that was it.


So many things wrong in your post, and you don't even see it, it's evident that you will never see it. The "shark in the industry" is almost laughable. Please. Why because you guys were already the lowest labor cost in the whole industry. With your relaxed work rules and pay, you could under cut all the other carriers in pricing? Sorta like how the mesa pilots with their substandard contract, allows their company to undercut every other regional with their contract lift pricing, that it pulls the rest of the industry down.

If you can't see the error in your ways and decisions, you are forever to be where you are now. At the highest pay rate you will probably ever attain, UNLESS you get on board with the east pilots and ride their wave forward. Otherwise enjoy your 15yr 96/hr pay, while others like Delta and NWA SWA have that as 2nd or 3rd yr pay....

Again you East pilots equate money with integrity. If I make more than you, I must be better than you. Seriously, are these the lessons you teach your children? The West contract continued to get better and better. It was a slow process, but that's how it works. You will understand this better when your USAPA boys bring you a garbage contract. They'll tell you is a foundation to build on. Besides, you and your pals are working on a wildly substandard bankruptcy contract. You are hardly in a position to comment on someone else's contract.



Yes, evidently you do have amnesia. When I got hired here, AWA was the shark in the industry fish tank. I had fellow new-hires from AA, TWA, Northwest, and a bunch of military guys. We had SWA's team mentality with a great route structure and growth. Thanks to eating a rotting whale, that's no longer the case.




See my previous post, "a little at a time".



When you don't have anything intelligent to say, spew venom. Classic East post. Just remember, "Mesa Grande" rallied a group of investors together and purchased your about-to-liquidate company. Gosh, that must really sting!



LOL, it's a merger, stupid. That's how it works. Each group gets access to things they hadn't previously had. Your Western commuters get access to a West hub. You get to fly to Hawaii. Let's be honest here...you get to have a job. And payrates? You work for pay rates I DO hope I'll never see and you have a contract that makes commuter pilots laugh at you. Was that what you thought the West was aspiring for? Oh, wait...you mean the hand full of international flying you do in those junked out 767s or the tiny fleet of A330s? You really believe you East guys are the crown jewel of the industry, don't you. Nobody, myself included, wanted to see you fall of of your high perch...but you did. You were flapping around, gasping for breath on the poop covered newspaper of your career. Thanks to a merger you didn't die and get flushed down the toilet. Only you guys would see this as a chance to step on your fellow industry members to try to reclaim your previous grandeur. I know you have some good guys out East. But you are some what of a joke.

 

[Crzipilot]

As previous poster said, WE WON TIME. Time can give us very substantial pay raises in a few months. Time can give us, super suction seniority with retirements in about 2 yrs....etc etc etc......

And to the west pilot scoffing at our tiny international fleet. If it's so small and so immaterial, YOU have no problem being fenced off of it for the entirety of your career???????

Ya didn't think so.

 

[TWA Dude]

The west pilots need to realize we are heading for a joint contract within 6 months. you can get aboard the train now or be left at the station. WOO WOO ALLLLL AAAABORAD!

cool. Looking forward to it.

We don't need the west ...

then why haven't you gotten rid of us?

...and you guys are about to get what is only fair for all DATE OF HIRE.

oxymoron

 

[Crzipilot]

Still awaiting that answer to be fenced off any wide body flying for the length of your career?!?!?!?!

 

[charlie2]

cool. Looking forward to it.then why haven't you gotten rid of us?oxymoron

Pilots dont make coporate decisions our very, very highly compensated managent does.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

.
Yes, evidently you do have amnesia. When I got hired here, AWA was the shark in the industry fish tank. I had fellow new-hires from AA, TWA, Northwest, and a bunch of military guys. We had SWA's team mentality with a great route structure and growth. Thanks to eating a rotting whale, that's no longer the case.




See my previous post, "a little at a time".



"When you don't have anything intelligent to say, spew venom. Classic East post. Just remember, "Mesa Grande" rallied a group of investors together and purchased your about-to-liquidate company. Gosh, that must really sting!QUOTE]"




Well, don't have a dog in this fight, but it is entertaining.

That said, I do have to correct the quote above, which is a very common misconception that I have hear here before. NO ONE, let me repeat NO ONE for Am. West had ANYTHING to do with putting this deal together!!!! peroid.

Next misconception, it also was NOT Lakefield that put the deal together Either!!!

NOW, if anyone is smart enough or informed enough to state 'who' it was that put the deal together, rounded up the outside investors, etc., then I will of course recognize the correct answer.

I only know some of this because a former firm that I worked for handled such dealing and there was A Lot of talk out there about what the 'plan was' Based on this info. it is easy to speculate that people planned the deal LONG, LONG before it was announced, but 'they' (management) did not want to do the deal, until they used BK to drive down (beat down) US Air's costs (wages, benefits, etc.) to make the deal more sellable!!!

Just like when I hear people on here say, 'US Air was almost out of cash and could not even make payroll, and Am. West gave them money to make payroll' Well, that was all a matter of 'book-keeping' and timing of the merger closing; this deal was ALWAYS GOING TO DO THROUGH, it is just business. US Air was set up to have just enough 'dip' financing 'cash' to run it through the 'deal closing' again a 'matter of time' This merger was Planned LONG LONG before it was actually announced, and was going to go through, as it is 'just business'

Anyway, don't meant to interrupt you 'cat fight, family squabble' but again, IF anyone can tell me the name of the guy who put the deal together. You get a 'Gold Star'

Now, back to the 12 page rant.

For what its worth, PD

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The west pilots need to realize we are heading for a joint contract within 6 months. you can get aboard the train now or be left at the station. WOO WOO ALLLLL AAAABORAD!

We don't need the west and you guys are about to get what is only fair for all DATE OF HIRE.

Contract in 6 months

Contract in 6 month?????:laugh:
If dougweiser doesn't have you guys pieced out. Guys like you will be lucky to land a job at republic

 

[PlaneDrvr]

What did you win?[/QUOTE]


Another way to look at it;

Well, again from an outsider, reading the press release and the info presented; I guess it can be debated what (or how much) USAPA won???

BUT, what is very VERY obvious is that the West pilots (those who sued, et. al.) clearly, undoubtedly LOST!!!!!

So, if you are a former Am. West pilot, I would not be talking about whether the union or the former east pilots 'won' (or what did they win), rather the FACT that you (the former Am. West) LOST, BAD!!!!

for what its worth, PD

Ok, now I am just back to reading and entertaining myself.

 

[Metro752]

Still awaiting that answer to be fenced off any wide body flying for the length of your career?!?!?!?!

Half of the entire US Airways (East & West ) your pilot group is over 55? Why would it be fenced off for 30 years?

 

[Crzipilot]

Half of the entire US Airways (East & West ) your pilot group is over 55? Why would it be fenced off for 30 years?

Why??? 'cause some of us are MUCH younger than 55.....

 

[Guppiedriver]

What did you win?[/QUOTE]


Another way to look at it;

Well, again from an outsider, reading the press release and the info presented; I guess it can be debated what (or how much) USAPA won???

BUT, what is very VERY obvious is that the West pilots (those who sued, et. al.) clearly, undoubtedly LOST!!!!!

So, if you are a former Am. West pilot, I would not be talking about whether the union or the former east pilots 'won' (or what did they win), rather the FACT that you (the former Am. West) LOST, BAD!!!!

for what its worth, PD

Ok, now I am just back to reading and entertaining myself.

We lost bad? Clearly you haven't read the ruling.

As previous poster said, WE WON TIME. Time can give us very substantial pay raises in a few months. Time can give us, super suction seniority with retirements in about 2 yrs....etc etc etc......

Yeah, but "time" is only working for the bottom half of your seniority list. What about the other half, what do they get?

 

[Guppiedriver]

Still awaiting that answer to be fenced off any wide body flying for the length of your career?!?!?!?!

Are you saying that USAPA would agree to use the Nicolau list if the west agreed to a permanent fence around your widebodies? If so, where do we sign?

 

[JetMonkey]

Still awaiting that answer to be fenced off any wide body flying for the length of your career?!?!?!?!

I'm willing to be fenced off from your 10 767's and 9 330's, cause that's ALL the east brought to the dance. But every wide body since then plus plus the 3 75's and all 190's should be equally shared. Comprende?