USAPA wins appeal!!!!!!

[charlie2]

Easties: understand what this means. The injunction is lifted so USAPA is free to negotiate whatever list it likes, but, if it again violates the DFR an injunction will stop it. So in effect we're back to were we were when USAPA won its election. Enjoy your victory.

The way I understand it is the DFR case has to be totally dismissed. There will be no more injunction to stop anything. The west will have to re-sue later.

 

[Crzipilot]

Not so sure about just an injunction being filed to stop it in the future, If the case is completely dismissed, I would imagine another suit would have to be brought. Then it starts at step one again. How long would that take and how much west money would it take?????

Also, I think your post needs a little correction. As with the dismissal of the case for ripeness, USAPA did NOT commit DFR. That's my understanding. The judges saying. Nothing to see here, move on, get out of our courthouse. Thank you. NEXT.

So the key word should be IF USAPA possibly commits DFR, which would have to be decided by a court of law sometime in the far future. It will have to defend itself against a possible frivolous lawsuit AGAIN, for the simple fact a group of people don't agree with the fact that the binding arbitration was an INTERNAL UNION POLICY, not associated with the current CBA. As nothing was finalized, that ALPA policy does not apply

Now of course if a CBA is voted in, and it's not the NIC, then you guys will get a second chance to attempt to prove how the then current list is detrimental to the west group, and unfairly favors the east group. Of course we don't know the complete terms of such a seniority list in the future, so when one is finally agreed upon and negotiated with the company. We can see where we stand. Then figure out if you can raise that 2million dollars to place that suit.

 

[TWA Dude]

The way I understand it is the DFR case has to be totally dismissed. There will be no more injunction to stop anything. The west will have to re-sue later.

I believe that is correct. Another suit for an injunction would and will have to be filed. Considering what a slam-dunk case it was should give USAPA some pause before violating it's DFR again. We'll see.

 

[charlie2]

Not so sure about just an injunction being filed to stop it in the future, If the case is completely dismissed, I would imagine another suit would have to be brought. Then it starts at step one again. How long would that take and how much west money would it take?????

Also, I think your post needs a little correction. As with the dismissal of the case for ripeness, USAPA did NOT commit DFR. That's my understanding. The judges saying. Nothing to see here, move on, get out of our courthouse. Thank you. NEXT.

So the key word should be IF USAPA possibly commits DFR, which would have to be decided by a court of law sometime in the far future. It will have to defend itself against a possible frivolous lawsuit AGAIN, for the simple fact a group of people don't agree with the fact that the binding arbitration was an INTERNAL UNION POLICY, not associated with the current CBA. As nothing was finalized, that ALPA policy does not apply

Now of course if a CBA is voted in, and it's not the NIC, then you guys will get a second chance to attempt to prove how the then current list is detrimental to the west group, and unfairly favors the east group. Of course we don't know the complete terms of such a seniority list in the future, so when one is finally agreed upon and negotiated with the company. We can see where we stand. Then figure out if you can raise that 2million dollars to place that suit.

That's what I meant to say!

 

[TWA Dude]

Then figure out if you can raise that 2million dollars to place that suit.

If you wish to find out you shall.

 

[charlie2]

I believe that is correct. Another suit for an injunction would and will have to be filed. Considering what a slam-dunk case it was should give USAPA some pause before violating it's DFR again. We'll see.

I would lose even more respect for the west if they didn't sue again.

 

[Metro752]

.......

 

[Crzipilot]

You're right, Crazi. Your starving former East furloughs should be able to feast on the careers of the America West pilots. In fact, I think you should ask USAPA to contractually allow East pilots to raid the money West pilots set aside for their kid's college fund. Hey, I'm sure you were planning on your kid going to Harvard but didn't bother to put any money aside. Never mind the fact that by parroting Daddy's ethics they'd be lucky to get into the local community college. It's all about entitlement. Should you be entitled to have my ATM PIN as well?

Don't worry about the money. In a battle for integrity, each West pilot is willing to dig deeply into his pockets to support the group of ALL West pilots. I'm sure this is a foreign concept to you but watch closely. You might actually learn something....or not.

Ok WOW, a West pilot spewing about integrity in ones career. Uhmmm..excuse me, but EXACTLY WHERE AND AT WHAT LEVEL was the West pilots contract at through the years???? Did the west pilots continually raise the bar to help the profession to new levels of work rules and pay rates????

Did the west pilots strive and able to attain at any point in their career top of industry pay rates??? and work rules????

At ANY TIME IN THE HISTORY of the West were they able to attain this????????

Or did they simply get on with any passenger carrier they could, agreeing to work at substandard wages and work rules, happy to be flying something with a jet engine on it??? Or happy to have a job after 9/11??? Any pay check will do???

Or do I have amnesia and have forgotten how the West pilots were the cream de la cream and the envy of every other airline out there?????


No I think it was partially the America West that helped LOWER the bar to the wage levels we currently see the industry at. How else would you be at your HIGHEST pay rates ever. And have the best work rules you currently have????

YOU rode the backs of every other pilot out there, and sat on their shoulders, pulling THEM down to your level. Don't give me crap about integrity or how great of a career you were destined for. (Though I guess If I started at San Jose CC and continued to Mesa to Mesa Grande I too would think of the West as an upgrade)

Anyways.... It's sort of like you guys wanting to jump in line and fly those wide bodies to destinations you never dreamed of flying to. At pay rates your airline would never see in your career. Hey I'm sure you were planning on going to a real airline after the industry recovered from 9/11....but here we are.

 

[Crzipilot]

I believe that is correct. Another suit for an injunction would and will have to be filed. Considering what a slam-dunk case it was should give USAPA some pause before violating it's DFR FOR THE FIRST TIME. We'll see.

Here fixed your wording for you........

Uhmm...if it was a slam dunk, why is getting dismissed?

 

[get2flyin]

Oh Crazi! You are just on a posting FRENZY on so many boards today. And after being gone for so long! Your behavior is so predictable. As I told you on the OTHER board, "good luck cashing your lottery ticket*"

*(MCDU, every single post he makes)

 

[charlie2]

Here fixed your wording for you........

Uhmm...if it was a slam dunk, why is getting dismissed?

Because the judges don't live in Phoenix!

 

[Crzipilot]

If you wish to find out you shall.

Don't really care to find out. didn't care to find out the first time. But alas that's where the road ended up.

I figure, in a few weeks, reality will sit in, and cooler heads will prevail on the west, and they will see the futility of fighting for the NIC. They will then have discussions with USAPA, and agreed upon integration can be brought forth. DOH with c/r's that protect both sides. Done and we move on....

 

[doh]

Clearly Crazy (pun intended) believes that the original arbitration award is set aside by this ruling. I don't believe it is. The ruling is strictly about "ripeness". I am not, nor have I ever been on a list flying any routes belonging to east or west, so I don't have a dog in this fight. My interest is in the legal side, and of course it is always such vicious fun to watch a cat fight!

 

[Crzipilot]

Nope, don't think it's been set aside. But facts are facts. They got their case dismissed, We can ride our wave of retirements and increase our incomes without sharing anything with the west. Simple as that.

Now if they would like to be included, they can agree to not sue under some mutually agreed upon version of seniority list ensconced inside a new CBA

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

No skin in the game, but I warned everyone pulling for the West side about the Ninth Circuit. There was a VERY specific reason the appeal was filed there, and that strategem paid off.

Nu

 

[charlie2]

Heyas,

No skin in the game, but I warned everyone pulling for the West side about the Ninth Circuit. There was a VERY specific reason the appeal was filed there, and that strategem paid off.

Nu

From what I understand it was the only place where an apeal could be heard???

 

[TWA Dude]

Uhmm...if it was a slam dunk, why is getting dismissed?

Read the original trial transcripts and the ruling from the 9th and if that doesn't help you I'll tell you: the DFR violation is obvious when it becomes ripe.

I figure, in a few weeks, reality will sit in, and cooler heads will prevail on the west, and they will see the futility of fighting for the NIC. They will then have discussions with USAPA, and agreed upon integration can be brought forth. DOH with c/r's that protect both sides.

You're making a mistake to think reordering the seniority list to favor the East isn't a violation of DFR. You're now free to utilize your tyranny of the majority to negotiate and ratify a CBA. But do you really believe we won't file for another injunction and get one? From what I know of USAPA I fully expect them to again try to get around binding arbitration. I also fully expect them to again fail.

 

[TWA Dude]

There was a VERY specific reason the appeal was filed there,

You're right. Arizona District courts are within the jurisdiction of the 9th. It would be a very poor strategy to appeal to the wrong court. Ask Mr. Seham about his "emergency" filing.

see map here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_courts_of_appeals

 

[Metrojet]

Easties: understand what this means. The injunction is lifted so USAPA is free to negotiate whatever list it likes, but, if it again violates the DFR an injunction will stop it. So in effect we're back to were we were when USAPA won its election. Enjoy your victory.

Twas -

This could have been a joint victory without the legal fees if the Westies just agreed to fences and conditions as previously offered.

So now we wait and see about LOA 93 pay adjustments.

Metrojet

 

[charlie2]

utilize your tyranny of the majority to negotiate and ratify a CBA.

and democracy kicks in!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlIm-riMN6Q