Usapa lost!!!!!!!!!

[MCDU]

MCDU, your argument is specious. West pilots would not be furloughed if the Nic was in effect. They would be senior.

You are right. The only ones that would be getting the shaft once again would be East pilots and that shows how one sided the award went.
Yep the the 2005 DOH would be more senior then the 1988 DOH according to Nic and yes the 1988 pilot would hit the street first had the Nic been implemented. Even though the jobs the west brought are the ones lost. The East has given up to much. The concession stand is closed.

M

 

[Carl S.]

What ever the East gave up prior to the merger is their problem! That is water under the bridge, we work at a new company called LCC today. West pilots have lost the most since this merger in 2005, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. Nic. did have fences, but they came down with Age 65. Also the East's position at the arbitration was straight LOS, not DOH if I recall correctly. USAPA has a more harden position then the merger committee, because they thought the major did not have to answer to the minority(WRONG!!!).

 

[PuffDriver]

Okay, I will. There's zero grounds for a lawsuit. Perception of unfairness isn't grounds for a suit. An actual law must be broken. The DFR suit we just won was due to USAPA violating labor law. The jury was well-informed of how unfair the Easties felt the Nicolau award was yet they deliberated a very short time before unanimously ruling against them.Funny, that's pretty much what Sully said on the witness stand. It didn't work there either. It doesn't take a law degree to know how incorrect you are. The only lawful cause to overturn a binding arbitration is impropriety. All parties agreed there was none.The quagmire we're in isn't due to the opinion of outsiders. All that needs to be done is for the East to accept reality.What planet were you on during the arbitration hearings? DOH is exactly what they were expecting. If the AAA MEC had better managed their expectations (and not withheld the daily transcripts) they wouldn't have been so shocked. Nicolau told them they weren't getting DOH. HE TOLD THEM.Have you read the Nicolau award. There's no vindictiveness there whatsoever. If he'd meant to punish them he would've said so.

He, he, he, he....<sound of heart beating and veins popping out>

 

[TWA Dude]

Ya know, when I have no response I simply don't post.

 

[PuffDriver]

Ya know, when I have no response I simply don't post.

He, he, he, he....<sound of heart beating and veins popping out>

 

[doh]

You are right. The only ones that would be getting the shaft once again would be East pilots and that shows how one sided the award went.
Yep the the 2005 DOH would be more senior then the 1988 DOH according to Nic and yes the 1988 pilot would hit the street first had the Nic been implemented. Even though the jobs the west brought are the ones lost. The East has given up to much. The concession stand is closed.

M

The 1988 hire would be out of a job permanently if the west hadn't stepped in to save USAirways. So yes, he would be the one to take a temporary furlough. That is not a concession, but the price of having any future at all.

 

[cactusboy53]

The biggest travesty in the Nic was that it contained no fences to protect East flying and the fact that 17 year active pilots were put behind probation pilots. A simple ten year fence would have gotten enough votes to protect the aging East pilot group that have already lost the best paying contract and a 80% funded retirement. Nic gave West a windfall. That was to be avoided per their merger guidelines. If the award was fair you would see a different response by the 2 groups. One side clearly wants the award implemented, while the other is going down fighting. Better to die standing up then to live on your knees. (Zapata)

M

Marty;
You're right, the ALPA merger policy does state that a windfall is to be avoided. Your opinion that the west got a wind fall has the same value of mine that the top 517 east pilots got a windfall. If the east wanted a ten year fence, they should have presented that to the merger committees and to the arbitrator. Too late, no do overs. It's still a final and binding arbitration.

The award came with a 4 year fence. The fence came down with the age change as per Nicolau's instructions. I have no doubt that Cleary and his USAPA leadership will drive this union right over the cliff (have you ever watched lemmings do this?) in attempts to appeal the lawsuit (and other legal maneuvering). Members are being charged 1.95% of your wage right now. What will you be charged to continue this legal movement? If the west wins an the appeal, AND we win a damages trial....what will be the cost then??

If there are any east pilots out there that are tired of being led by the USAPA machine, now would be an EXCELLENT time to stand and be counted.

 

[Cowboy75]

Damn right. The fight will continue until the travesity of out-of-seniority furloughs end and pilots return to their respective positions. As long as there is a windfall, I will continue to fund the fight against USAPA.

Dave is is senior to Dean.

 

[vetrider]

You are correct in my opinion however both sides here on FI will not budge. You are also correct in stating you can not reasonably stick a 17 year pilot underneath a 4 month one and expect harmony, aint going to happen. Usair should have backed off of their DOH or nothing stance. As a result you got this standoff.

TWA Dude calls me an USAPA apologist in 5.4.3.2.1......

Maybe expecting harmony is unrealstic, but I think the west is reasonable to expect the east to abide by their agreements and the law. Nine regular Joes off the street who couldn't care less about either group apparantly agree with that as well. One side, guess which one, is out of bounds here.

You are a usapa apologist.

 

[abefly]

You are right. The only ones that would be getting the shaft once again would be East pilots and that shows how one sided the award went.
Yep the the 2005 DOH would be more senior then the 1988 DOH according to Nic and yes the 1988 pilot would hit the street first had the Nic been implemented. Even though the jobs the west brought are the ones lost. The East has given up to much. The concession stand is closed.

M

Your forgetting that AWA could have transferred their vegas and phoenix routes that were losing money to new markets on the east coast. This is what the new US Air did. The thing is they transferred it to the w************************* of the group who make less money, the east. Its simple business really. Continue on with your ignorance. Time for another beer.

 

[LearLove]

"it's not over"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIgVrOy9vM&feature=related

 

[denny]

Why do they make it hard to delete something here?

 

[Cowboy75]

"it's not over"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIgVrOy9vM&feature=related

I can see from your avatar that you like fat chicks. I can see from your link you like Rambo.

Back to the thread.....

 

[Sandhawk]

"it's not over"

Said the MDA F/O that never interviewed at Mainline or flew a mainline aircraft..........


imp:

 

[LearLove]

it's a joke a$$hole.

 

[Bad-Andy]

One side clearly wants the award implemented, while the other is going down fighting. Better to die standing up then to live on your knees. (Zapata)

M

You are joking, right? When have they ever "stood up" and fought? You've got to be kidding me. Pensions... LOA 93... Lost arbitration after lost arbitration... The "max pay to the last day" cry is getting a bit old. They didn't stand and fight over the major issues, and they won't stand and fight now. It is all rhetorical posturing by a small group of self-centered ego-maniacs. Besides, under LOA 93, they don't even live on their knees... they live bent over and taking it from the rear.

Thus far, getting furloughed from that mess was the best thing that could have happened to me. (I just hope the West guys get what they deserve -- either their jobs back or at least get paid from USAPA assessments)

 

[reepicheep]

For years the rally cry of the usair pilot group has been not "the concession stand is closed" but "well at least I still have a job"

The piloting career is truly in your debt.

 

[FR8mastr]

Said the MDA F/O that never interviewed at Mainline or flew a mainline aircraft..........


imp:

Yea, he missed out on the "tell me about a time" and the all important, "what would you do with a drunk Captain" question. (they did have all, and I mean all of his records for his entire career, even training notes)
But what he did do was quit his job at a WO and put it on the line going through training at Airways. Which was filled with the attitudes just like yours that because he flew a Dash there was no way he could fly the big jets. But then something happened, they unlike you realized that maybe with the 10,000 hours they averaged, they actually have a clue.
Something else also happened when he showed up in Airways ground school, he was welcomed to "mainline" told about his union reps ( mainline) and given a Seniority number (mainline). I know you reject these facts, and there is nothing I can do about it. His name appears on Airways lists prior to any merger being announced, I still cant figure out how some of you even argue that, its in print for crying out loud. But whatever.

I am very sorry you are getting hosed being furloughed, most of us have been there and we know exactly what you are going through. No matter how much you hate the East pilots, they are not the ones that furloughed you, no power to do so even if that is what they wanted (its not). Management, your beloved Doug furloughed you.
Why dont you ask your rep in PHX if there are/were any contingencies to mitigate furloughes from the west by replaceing some voluntary east leaves? Then ask him why he did not bring that idea forward at the last union meeting?

 

[B-atch]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the safety implications that this award has conceived. It is obvious from what has been mutually said and done, that it will be practically impossible for an east & west pilot to share the flight deck without serious safety concerns. I am sure the FAA is closely monitoring this. And if they're not, perhaps they should. It is obvious that a hostile work environment laced in mistrust, deep hatred, and resentment, is a recipe for disaster. As this saga continues down this path of auto destruction the name calling and inflammation will escalate. The mutual hatred will boil over, and permanent damage will be done.
To the east guys, the real failure goes to your ignorant-arrogant merger committee for failing to negotiate a fair integration. To the west guys, life is never sweet when you take that which is not yours.
In the end US Airways will rank #1 in worst place to work for in the WORLD!!!
My recommendation to all involved, GET A JOB ELSE WERE. This place is toast!!

 

[Cowboy75]

It is obvious that a hostile work environment laced in mistrust, deep hatred, and resentment, is a recipe for disaster. As this saga continues down this path of auto destruction the name calling and inflammation will escalate. The mutual hatred will boil over, and permanent damage will be done.

Here is an example of professionalism exhibited by an East pilot to a West pilot this morning. Talk about hostile work environment!

Attacked in SMF
The following event occurred in Sacramento, Ca on May,16 2009 at 8:00 am. On the hotel van to the airport were the crews from US 976 and US 42.

ME: Only one leg home today?

FO 976: (silence)

Me: Are there mostly 2 day trips in PHL?

FO 976: (silence)

Me (to my capt.): I think I'm getting the silent treatment.

FO 976: If your getting the silent treatment then why don't you shut up. I'm not giving you crap about your trip.

Me: I was just asking....

FO 976: I don't give a **** about you or your trip.

Silence from all for the rest of the van ride.

After exiting the van at the airport curb within earshot of passengers.

Me: I was just trying to be nice and have a conversation

FO 976: **** You !!

Me: I don't appreciate that language or hostility

FO 976: Go **** yourself. **** You. **** You. **** You. I don't give a **** about about you or your partner.

At this point we parted ways as he bypassed security (FFDO).

The flight attendants from Flight 976 then apologized for his behavior and thanked me for walking away from the situation



The FO was hired in 1989 and was on furlough at the time of the merger.
Have a nice day.