US Recalls

[Itsallsogood]

and 10 Bucks more says I have more time (4300 hrs.) in that Dornier too.

 

[JetMonkey]

I just saw PHX-SFO-PHL in open time a few days ago.

 

[Itsallsogood]

Itsallsogood, you have the same attitude as to why American Airlines furloughed TWA Captains and kept their new hires. TWA Alpa pilots got hosed by AMR and I just hope it does not happen to USAir pilots.

MARTY

Nope . Opposite.
East thinks they deserve all the left seats ( read the wish list)
West wants a FAIR integration.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Welcome for what? You guys sold out on the 90 seaters long before we did! We were pressured to do it only because you had. Have you been paying attention?

Have you? The reason those aircraft ended up at AWA was because of the pressures of bankruptcy, the same reason that they ended up at UsAirways.

 

[Crzipilot]

All I know is, the AWA sound like they will be a joy to work with. "I was stagnant at AWA for two years because the East got all the flying and blah blah blah...." Oh I'm sorry, I should have voluntered to stay on furlough for another 5 years so that you could hold a line, or finally upgrade.......

Talk about self centered vision..... Each carrier is F**** up in it's own way. prior 9/11 guys were bailing out of AWA as fast as they could. Post...there were guys that quit US to goto AWA...etc etc....

So who gives a rats *ss about crap that's out of our control. If you would put as much energy into demanding for a fair contract, as well as increased rates on the 190 (THEY ARE PATHETIC), Demand Management accountability, etc etc..... as you do bemoaning that the east guys are screwing you, and don't deserve anything etc etc.....there might be some progress. Did you happen to go walk the line the other day??? How 'bout showing up in DC??? NO?? Didn't think so, probably more concerned with how many retirements are in the future, and what capt. position you'll be able to hold.

As previous have said, IT"S OUT OF YOUR CONTROL.....delve into something and put the energy forth into something that is in your control...geeze..

 

[PHXFLYR]

Does anyone know if Usair west are short pilots? I heard last year that the west side might need to recall around 50-60 pilots around mid 2007, if that's so I guess it means that the "east" furloughees will be working under the "west" contract.

Appreciate any info.

Our equipment bid late last summer resulted in 8 F/O new hire positions that to date the company has not filled. According to the Transition Agreement between West and East those slots were supposed to be filled by furloughees from the east but to date they have not. I just scrolled thru what we call "open flying" and there is quite a bit of open time for F/O's in all fleets for the month of Feb. Same last month. So that leads me to believe they are a little short with regards to F/O's. Hope this info helps.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Sorry to interrupt the sniping and counter-sniping but here's some dispassionate facts. West is stagnant. East is recalling due to attrition and for slow growth soon due to the 190s. Easties are flying some former West routes and Westies are flying some former East routes; those block hours are a wash. The company recently has been compliant with the Transition agreement in this regard.

Interestingly, after two winters of being on reserve January and February this year I've had lines. I suspect we'll actually need to have some recalls come West by this summer unless something changes.

We need to unify to get a Joint Contract asap. Until we do the West will continue to stagnate and the East will continue to languish under a consessionary contract.

Hey Dude....

Don't confuse the Easties with the facts. They just like being pissed off at the world and this gives them a convient excuse. He!!,they were even like that when they had the A scale money and pensions. Sorta in their DNA.If they were smart they would have used their furlough time more productively (like trying to get hired on with SWA, Fed Ex, or UPS ).and kiss that rotting carcus of an airline of theirs goodbye. One thing for sure ,if they do decide to come back and think it's gonna be the same "USAir" they left several years ago,they are in for a rude awakening. See ya.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

I haven't seen any "windfalls" anywhere, personally. Begrudging the east for their recalls is just wrong. We are all languishing one way or another. In my own situation I can't complain, it could be worse. I've been on reserve for pushing 3 years as a junior captain out west, but if I complain about that(which I won't), I would fully expect to get laughed off the island. The more recalls the better, the way I see it.

As usual, Twa Dude has it right, in my opinion.

He absolutely does...one of the very few balanced and factual posters on this webboard that manages to keep the emotions out of his postings. But don't tell that to Crzipilot,Be Careful and the rest of the East Coast Comedy Team.


PHXFLYR

 

[BeCareful!]

Just Call Me Dave was a nickname for David Siegel, former CEO. If you knew how to read and understand the context you would have caught that, moron.

No, never flown the 767. You? Why does this matter?

Finally, it appears obvious that you guys have never received pressure from your management to "compete" by adopting the inferior pay and work rules of a lesser carrier. Hmmmmmm. Wonder why? Oh, I just thought of it: your contract has historically been one of the $hittiest out there! Frankie, Parker, et al....couldn't exactly ask you for much, eh?

Maybe that's why you can't see that letting the 90-seat airplane out of the hanger was AWA ALPA's fault, not ours.

 

[PHXFLYR]

East flying....West flying... I saw 9 flights a day by the East to PHX. In addition, many flights outbound from PHX to numerous destinations by the EAST. This month 1 flight SAN-PHL and a PHL-BOS flight and I believe a PDX-PHL . WOW. But thanks following the agreement. Windfall EAST.

You know I'm no fan of the East guys and gals,but that said I gotta jump in here. First,let me suggest you read TWA Dude's post this thread a few messages back. All East flying being done by the West and all West flying being done by the East is all in compliance with the Transition agreement that BOTH MEC's signed off on . This was mentioned at last weeks MEC Pizza Lunch at the Training Center, sent to your home via Blast E-mail message (does ALPA have your home e-mail address? If not,why not?) and there is also a posting in the ALPA Glass Case in the Crewroom in PHX outlining the
above info. For you to suggest otherwise is wrong. May I suggest you settle down and get your facts straight before going off on a tagent next time?

PHXFLYR

 

[BeCareful!]

He absolutely does...one of the very few balanced and factual posters on this webboard that manages to keep the emotions out of his postings. But don't tell that to Crzipilot,Be Careful and the rest of the East Coast Comedy Team.


PHXFLYR

Why not? I've always admired TWA DUDE and his rational posts. Quite unlike your poorly crafted spin and caustic attitude.

 

[BeCareful!]

You know I'm no fan of the East guys and gals,but that said I gotta jump in here. First,let me suggest you read TWA Dude's post this thread a few messages back. All East flying being done by the West and all West flying being done by the East is all in compliance with the Transition agreement that BOTH MEC's signed off on . This was mentioned at last weeks MEC Pizza Lunch at the Training Center, sent to your home via Blast E-mail message (does ALPA have your home e-mail address? If not,why not?) and there is also a posting in the ALPA Glass Case in the Crewroom in PHX outlining the
above info. For you to suggest otherwise is wrong. May I suggest you settle down and get your facts straight before going off on a tagent next time?

PHXFLYR

OK, I'll stand partially corrected here. Good post.

 

[PHXFLYR]

All I know is, the AWA sound like they will be a joy to work with. "I was stagnant at AWA for two years because the East got all the flying and blah blah blah...." Oh I'm sorry, I should have voluntered to stay on furlough for another 5 years so that you could hold a line, or finally upgrade.......

Talk about self centered vision..... Each carrier is F**** up in it's own way. prior 9/11 guys were bailing out of AWA as fast as they could. Post...there were guys that quit US to goto AWA...etc etc....

So who gives a rats *ss about crap that's out of our control. If you would put as much energy into demanding for a fair contract, as well as increased rates on the 190 (THEY ARE PATHETIC), Demand Management accountability, etc etc..... as you do bemoaning that the east guys are screwing you, and don't deserve anything etc etc.....there might be some progress. Did you happen to go walk the line the other day??? How 'bout showing up in DC??? NO?? Didn't think so, probably more concerned with how many retirements are in the future, and what capt. position you'll be able to hold.

As previous have said, IT"S OUT OF YOUR CONTROL.....delve into something and put the energy forth into something that is in your control...geeze..

Practice what you preach...and by the way I made the November picket.Did you ?

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Why not? I've always admired TWA DUDE and his rational posts. Quite unlike your poorly crafted spin and caustic attitude.

That's rich coming from a USAir pilot...the Kings of Spin and Caustic Attitude. May I suggest re-reading some of your posts from days gone by.Especially the one where you lambast some poor AWA guy when someone from the East asked him about PHX push back procedures shortly after you knuckleheads moved over to Terminal 4 a while ago? Classic USAir "holier than thou attitude...."


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

OK, I'll stand partially corrected here. Good post.

"Partially corrected "?????


...and thanks....I think:erm:


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Just Call Me Dave was a nickname for David Siegel, former CEO. If you knew how to read and understand the context you would have caught that, moron.

No, never flown the 767. You? Why does this matter?

Finally, it appears obvious that you guys have never received pressure from your management to "compete" by adopting the inferior pay and work rules of a lesser carrier. Hmmmmmm. Wonder why? Oh, I just thought of it: your contract has historically been one of the $hittiest out there! Frankie, Parker, et al....couldn't exactly ask you for much, eh?

Maybe that's why you can't see that letting the 90-seat airplane out of the hanger was AWA ALPA's fault, not ours.

This is what I mean by USAir "Spin Control". It's our fault that we "let the 90 seat airplane out of the hanger". Maybe if you kids tried keeping the 70 seat BAC 111's, F28's and EM170's in yours over the last several years maybe we wouldn't be in this predicament now would we?


PHXFLYR

 

[BenderGonzales]

Kinda getting pretty far afield here aren't we? Aren't there a few dozen threads dealing with the merger? THIS thread was about recalls and answering questions related to the recall.

The only answer that has been proven true by THIS thread is:

Q: What will the atmosphere in the USAir cockpits be like once the merger is complete?

A: Caustic at best. Dangerous at worst.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Only if you let it get that way.

PHXFLYR

 

[vetrider]

Kinda getting pretty far afield here aren't we? Aren't there a few dozen threads dealing with the merger? THIS thread was about recalls and answering questions related to the recall.

The only answer that has been proven true by THIS thread is:

Q: What will the atmosphere in the USAir cockpits be like once the merger is complete?

A: Caustic at best. Dangerous at worst.

I'm kind of thinking that once we are all out in the open face to face it will be different than here with everyone hiding behind their keyboards. Only a fool would think that everything will be peaches and cream, but I do think it'll be a whole lot better than the keyboard bravado we see here seems to suggest.

 

[Itsallsogood]

Just Call Me Dave was a nickname for David Siegel, former CEO. If you knew how to read and understand the context you would have caught that, moron.

No, never flown the 767. You? Why does this matter?

Oops I thought it was Dave O'dell someone who we have a bagtag for. If you meant Dave Siegel...... state it.

767? my FAA issued certificate says so. Moron.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"Only if you let it get that way.

PHXFLYR"

Just the same, I think i'll bypass for now. No point in yanking the gear for a group of people who hate my guts before they ever even meet me. (At least as long as I have another option)

 

[Crzipilot]

Interesting.....

The comment of coming back to US and it not being what we left. I believe the majority, if not all of us realize that. Yes, many B*$*# even with A-scale money and pensions.... And now that contract has been decimated, and gutted. Interestingly enough, during that process, the contracts that were continually thrown in AAA Alpa's face was SWA/AWA/JetBlue. Why?? Well their costs were less.....for a number of reasons, but part of it was pay rates and contractural requirements. The east side, gave it up....and many can say, they folded, etc etc, dragged the bar lower, which in some instances happened. But look further back than that. LCC airlines, coming in, competing at lower costs, supplemented by lower labor costs, chiping away at US's east strong hold. A slew or regional jets, flown by pilots willing to sell their soul for that golden PIC shiny jet time, etc etc... If you look around, when was that last carrier to stand for raising the bar? As opposed to individual willing to go to work at substandard rates and conditions??? I think I remember Comair, AA??? The picture is bigger than AWA/US, and the root of the evil definately started prior to this, way prior.....

As to the comment of, working on getting away from the anchor of US, well all of us have tried, but those wonderful shiny jets did a wonderful thing. See after 9/11.....guys with 1000 PIC were getting hired, whereas, those of us that had come up the ranks in a different route, were termed as Non-qualified. 7000hrs of Heavy 80% International time, with 1800+ hours of Airbus time, but no PIC, were termed as Non-qualified......but hey, stick me in a crj200 for 2 yrs as f/o and 1 yr as capt. and I'm golden......

 

[TWA Dude]

The only answer that has been proven true by THIS thread is: Q: What will the atmosphere in the USAir cockpits be like once the merger is complete? A: Caustic at best. Dangerous at worst.

You're confusing Internet Reality with the Real World. Trust me, if message board animosity spilled over into the cockpit there would've been a daily fistfight when the TWAers started flying with nAAtives. That didn't happen. From my USAir Express days I always felt that Mainline guys were cool and except for the usual few exeptions I still feel that way.

 

[JohnQ]

You're confusing Internet Reality with the Real World. Trust me, if message board animosity spilled over into the cockpit there would've been a daily fistfight when the TWAers started flying with nAAtives. That didn't happen. From my USAir Express days I always felt that Mainline guys were cool and except for the usual few exeptions I still feel that way.

You got that right. Most internet message board posters (hey...they would include me) no more represent the typical pilot than Anna Nicole Smith represents the typical widow.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Interesting.....

The comment of coming back to US and it not being what we left. I believe the majority, if not all of us realize that. Yes, many B*$*# even with A-scale money and pensions.... And now that contract has been decimated, and gutted. Interestingly enough, during that process, the contracts that were continually thrown in AAA Alpa's face was SWA/AWA/JetBlue. Why?? Well their costs were less.....for a number of reasons, but part of it was pay rates and contractural requirements. The east side, gave it up....and many can say, they folded, etc etc, dragged the bar lower, which in some instances happened. But look further back than that. LCC airlines, coming in, competing at lower costs, supplemented by lower labor costs, chiping away at US's east strong hold. A slew or regional jets, flown by pilots willing to sell their soul for that golden PIC shiny jet time, etc etc... If you look around, when was that last carrier to stand for raising the bar? As opposed to individual willing to go to work at substandard rates and conditions??? I think I remember Comair, AA??? The picture is bigger than AWA/US, and the root of the evil definately started prior to this, way prior.....

As to the comment of, working on getting away from the anchor of US, well all of us have tried, but those wonderful shiny jets did a wonderful thing. See after 9/11.....guys with 1000 PIC were getting hired, whereas, those of us that had come up the ranks in a different route, were termed as Non-qualified. 7000hrs of Heavy 80% International time, with 1800+ hours of Airbus time, but no PIC, were termed as Non-qualified......but hey, stick me in a crj200 for 2 yrs as f/o and 1 yr as capt. and I'm golden......

Excellent post. I agree with all that you say having lived through it all in an earlier era. Funny thing,though is that unlike you I had the MEPIC but I still couldn't move the career along. So I feel your pain as "Slick Willy" used to say. I'll say this though. The MEPIC time is highly overated by the HR types. I think its just a means that allows them to weed out some of the resumes that come across the desk. And that's unfortunate in that it eliminates pilots like yourself with more real world experience. One thing is for sure .This industry is nothing like it was when we were all private pilots starting out in terms of pay benefits and working conditions.Management slowly but surely pulled the rug out from under us. But we were too dang busy trying to move our career along to pay much attention. The bigger question is where do we go from here? Do we unite and take the fight to the Doug Parker's of the world? Or do we sit here on assinine webboards like this one and continue to point fingers at each other?


PHXFLYR

 

[Swaayze]

Well I was about to say that this thread alone will lead to much bypassing, but the last couple of posts show some promise. Some of you guys need a vacation. No pilot is in control of what's happening at LCC. No pilot has stolen another pilot's flying. No pilot at West saved a pilot at East's job. No one pilot is better or worse for the specific type of airplane he's flown. Does it suck that AWA stopped hiring and you guys are stagnant? Yes, absolutely. Does it suck that almost 2000 of us at East have been furloughed for years? Yes, absolutely. Does it suck that AWA allowed CRJ900s and U allowed crappy E170/190 precedent and rates? Yep. Are we all morons for wasting our time arguing here about stuff we cannot control even though we will hopefully steer clear of this BS in the cockpit and enjoy each others' company and professionalism? I'm hoping yes is correct here too.

Like it or not AWA and U are in this together and need to focus on taking back our profession instead of crying over spilled milk and the injustices we've endured to get here.

Get back on topic: Anyone know where the recalls are at with East and whether West will get some recalls to cover their shortages and help Dave out?

 

[Dogwood]

Nope . Opposite.
East thinks they deserve all the left seats ( read the wish list)
West wants a FAIR integration.

Looking at the West proposed sen list with all of the furloughees stapled to the bottom, I would say "Fair" might be a little bit of a stretch.

A quick glance at the east list with everyone mixed in somewhat even, seem smore fair.

But it's in the hands of the Big Guy, so I guess we'll find out in a couple months.

Will be very interesting.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well the "letters", which surprise surprise, are not in compliance with the contract, and not recall letters per se....are down to 4/99 class. Not sure how many are accepting, I know a few at PSA have accepted, but due to another type of inept managment, they are going to be held until at least May possibly 9 months total....so who knows....

 

[abefly]

Looking at the West proposed sen list with all of the furloughees stapled to the bottom, I would say "Fair" might be a little bit of a stretch.
.

How is it not fair? They were furloughed and had no career expectation. How can a person on the street come back and be senior to someone who is active on a seniority list and flying? Especially when all US Air East had planned prior to the merger was more furloughs and US AIR WEST was hiring 30/month. When it comes to it the arbitrator will decide but I just don't get what you guys are thinking with this? Why is that not FAIR?

 

[Dogwood]

How is it not fair? They were furloughed and had no career expectation. How can a person on the street come back and be senior to someone who is active on a seniority list and flying? Especially when all US Air East had planned prior to the merger was more furloughs and US AIR WEST was hiring 30/month. When it comes to it the arbitrator will decide but I just don't get what you guys are thinking with this? Why is that not FAIR?

A US Airways guy/gal with 15 years with the company, had a great chance of being recalled with 250 retirements/year. Now the west guys want to jump in front of them and take advantage of the retirements? I don't think so.

A furloughee (See definition below) is still an employee of the company, but is on a stand-by status to be recalled at the proper time. This is a temporary leave because they are overstaffed at the time. They still have employee numbers and can non-rev. This is not to be confused with a resignation, then the person wants to come back. Then you'd have a point.

Some type of even mixture is fair. Now, I'm not suggesting a west guy get furloughed so a prior furloughee can come back. The east furloughees can get jobs as they become available, but with a fair sen number.

There is no way you can convince me a 2 year west guy should go ahead of a 15 year east guy, even if he was on furlough status.

In the end, everyone should keep their relative seniority, with no windfalls.

If you were at the top of your old company, you should end up at or near the top of the new organization. Same for the middle and the bottom.

____________________________

fur·lough

/ˈfɜr

loʊ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fur-loh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.Military. a vacation or leave of absence granted to an enlisted person. 2.a usually temporary layoff from work: Many plant workers have been forced to go on furlough. 3.a temporary leave of absence authorized for a prisoner from a penitentiary. –verb (used with object) 4.to grant a furlough to. 5.to lay (an employee or worker) off from work, usually temporarily.