BenderGonzales
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2005
- Posts
- 859
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You're confusing Internet Reality with the Real World. Trust me, if message board animosity spilled over into the cockpit there would've been a daily fistfight when the TWAers started flying with nAAtives. That didn't happen. From my USAir Express days I always felt that Mainline guys were cool and except for the usual few exeptions I still feel that way.The only answer that has been proven true by THIS thread is: Q: What will the atmosphere in the USAir cockpits be like once the merger is complete? A: Caustic at best. Dangerous at worst.
You're confusing Internet Reality with the Real World. Trust me, if message board animosity spilled over into the cockpit there would've been a daily fistfight when the TWAers started flying with nAAtives. That didn't happen. From my USAir Express days I always felt that Mainline guys were cool and except for the usual few exeptions I still feel that way.
Interesting.....
The comment of coming back to US and it not being what we left. I believe the majority, if not all of us realize that. Yes, many B*$*# even with A-scale money and pensions.... And now that contract has been decimated, and gutted. Interestingly enough, during that process, the contracts that were continually thrown in AAA Alpa's face was SWA/AWA/JetBlue. Why?? Well their costs were less.....for a number of reasons, but part of it was pay rates and contractural requirements. The east side, gave it up....and many can say, they folded, etc etc, dragged the bar lower, which in some instances happened. But look further back than that. LCC airlines, coming in, competing at lower costs, supplemented by lower labor costs, chiping away at US's east strong hold. A slew or regional jets, flown by pilots willing to sell their soul for that golden PIC shiny jet time, etc etc... If you look around, when was that last carrier to stand for raising the bar? As opposed to individual willing to go to work at substandard rates and conditions??? I think I remember Comair, AA??? The picture is bigger than AWA/US, and the root of the evil definately started prior to this, way prior.....
As to the comment of, working on getting away from the anchor of US, well all of us have tried, but those wonderful shiny jets did a wonderful thing. See after 9/11.....guys with 1000 PIC were getting hired, whereas, those of us that had come up the ranks in a different route, were termed as Non-qualified. 7000hrs of Heavy 80% International time, with 1800+ hours of Airbus time, but no PIC, were termed as Non-qualified......but hey, stick me in a crj200 for 2 yrs as f/o and 1 yr as capt. and I'm golden......
Nope . Opposite.
East thinks they deserve all the left seats ( read the wish list)
West wants a FAIR integration.
Looking at the West proposed sen list with all of the furloughees stapled to the bottom, I would say "Fair" might be a little bit of a stretch.
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How is it not fair? They were furloughed and had no career expectation. How can a person on the street come back and be senior to someone who is active on a seniority list and flying? Especially when all US Air East had planned prior to the merger was more furloughs and US AIR WEST was hiring 30/month. When it comes to it the arbitrator will decide but I just don't get what you guys are thinking with this? Why is that not FAIR?
I got news for you... You were all about to be furloughed permanently from USAirways and somehow with AWA, I don't think that recall was comin'....
......but hey, stick me in a crj200 for 2 yrs as f/o and 1 yr as capt. and I'm golden......
A furloughee (See definition below) is still an employee of the company
fur·lough
–noun 1.Military. a vacation or leave of absence granted to an enlisted person. 2.a usually temporary layoff from work: Many plant workers have been forced to go on furlough. 3.a temporary leave of absence authorized for a prisoner from a penitentiary. –verb (used with object) 4.to grant a furlough to. 5.to lay (an employee or worker) off from work, usually temporarily.
In the end, everyone should keep their relative seniority, with no windfalls.
If you were at the top of your old company, you should end up at or near the top of the new organization. Same for the middle and the bottom.
I don't see that anywhere in the definition you provided. I only see the words "layoff from work." Here is a definition off a web dictionary for layoff:
Layoff: 1. When a company eliminates jobs regardless of how good the employees' performance.
Now, that makes more sense. And according to your conviction, logically, the furloughed guys would be placed on the bottom of the list. After all, the furloughed guys were at the bottom 100% (not working for the company, by the provided definition). And all of the pilots who were working for the two companies at the time had their place on the seniority list, somewhere between 0 and 100%.
Now if a furloughed guy came back in a way proposed by the East, he would go from 100% (below everyone working) to close to 50% up the seniority list. That’s not even close to your relative seniority belief.
… In the end MOST of us are NOT going to be happy with the decision of the arbitrator, and there is nothing we can do about it. And I’m sure the East side feels the same way as we do in the West in that we wish this merger never would have happened!
A US Airways guy/gal with 15 years with the company, had a great chance of being recalled with 250 retirements/year. Now the west guys want to jump in front of them and take advantage of the retirements? I don't think so.
A furloughee (See definition below) is still an employee of the company, but is on a stand-by status to be recalled at the proper time. This is a temporary leave because they are overstaffed at the time. They still have employee numbers and can non-rev. This is not to be confused with a resignation, then the person wants to come back. Then you'd have a point.
Some type of even mixture is fair. Now, I'm not suggesting a west guy get furloughed so a prior furloughee can come back. The east furloughees can get jobs as they become available, but with a fair sen number.
There is no way you can convince me a 2 year west guy should go ahead of a 15 year east guy, even if he was on furlough status.
In the end, everyone should keep their relative seniority, with no windfalls.
If you were at the top of your old company, you should end up at or near the top of the new organization. Same for the middle and the bottom.
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fur·lough![]()
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/ˈfɜr
loʊ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fur-loh]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation![]()
–noun 1.Military. a vacation or leave of absence granted to an enlisted person. 2.a usually temporary layoff from work: Many plant workers have been forced to go on furlough. 3.a temporary leave of absence authorized for a prisoner from a penitentiary. –verb (used with object) 4.to grant a furlough to. 5.to lay (an employee or worker) off from work, usually temporarily.
There is no way you can convince me a 2 year west guy should go ahead of a 15 year east guy, even if he was on furlough status.
In the end, everyone should keep their relative seniority, with no windfalls.
If you were at the top of your old company, you should end up at or near the top of the new organization. Same for the middle and the bottom.I agree. If you are on the top you stay on top, etc. But, guess what, a 15 year east guy who is still on furlough is not just on the bottom, he is below the bottom. He is unemployed and as such should end up below any pilot that is currently employed by USAirways.
A quick glance at the east list with everyone mixed in somewhat even, seem smore fair.
Mixed in somewhat even? Are you high? Our number 1 pilot ends up as number 909 on the new list and that's somewhat even?
Clearly Jet Blew does not do enough random drug testing!