US Airways Pilot/FA Recall

[greyskyracer]

hey Dornier are you at JS?

 

[elguapo9]

I'm putting my money on the 12/13 class being the last one for 190's, then everything past that going to other a/c. Most likely international, since that seems to be the biggest 'grey on grey' problem. Seat locks won't get waived for the 190.

The above is just my speculation.

 

[charlie2]

The few times I couldn't commute in the scheduler asked me if I had two chances to get to work and I said yes and that was the end of it. So at least a few schedulers believe there is a commuter policy.

 

[Tweaker]

That is great, Chuck.

As far as openings, they get grabbed up by current pilots, so those 45 unseatlocked E190 pilots will take them before a new hire gets at them. There aren't many new hires projected beyond that. Also, those dudes who bypassed, both East and West can snag those non-E190 slots.

So, no I don't see how a new hire could get a non-E190 slot anytime soon.

But I also agree that there will be no waiving of an aircraft lock.

 

[MCDU]

There is a permanent bid out for March for those interested.

M

 

[Crzipilot]

Well bid closes dec 5. I think in the past, if you were in training, I.E. indoc etc. and not yet into aircraft specific you weren't yet locked on the aircraft.

If they don't hold guys to the 190 (have a feeling they will) then there could be a possibility of those guys getting off there into grp. II

Looks like a net increase of 23 positions.

40 Recalls from Furlough.


Tweaker your comment of the furloughed guys being able to grab the grp II slots, that's AFTER the bid closes and they determine what positions are left available. If they enforce the 190 lock, then those guys obviously can't bid into grp II. If they waive the 190 lock. Those guys would be able to bid into GRP II prior to the furloughed guys getting a shot at those spots.

So are these 40 recalls an additional? Or just the clean up from what was already announced.

Did notice 4 Early retirements for the bid....3 capt 1 f/o oh and two terms....Whoops

 

[Captzaahlie]

How did you manage to get terminated so fast Tweaker?

 

[Tweaker]

Well, that is indeed ineresting, Crzi. I wonder if some wait and see plans have been foiled by this turn of events? There are 10 pile its that finished indoc but do not start a/c specific until 12/16. Another ten start 12/2 so I guess they be hosed.

I ain't took a good look at this bid, nor do I expect to understand it, but you really think anyone from down that far is getting off the 190? This is getting really confusing!

 

[zymotic]

From latest Furlough Comm. Update:

1) Last week, US Airways conducted another class of 20 PHL E190 pilots. With the next class that will be conducted on December 13, 2010, all pilots East and West will have been offered at least an E190 PHL position as we will begin to fill remaining spots with new hires in the first half of 2011.

Also, word is 50 pilots will be "coming off" the 190 to other aircraft in the just announced perm bid.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

So 50 off the 190 to group 2? These are guys and gals without a seat lock right?

 

[zymotic]

So 50 off the 190 to group 2? These are guys and gals without a seat lock right?

Well, we shall see. Here's how I see it:

Prior to the recalls there were 73 E-190 positions. When recalls began they awarded 10 190 F/O's off the airplane. There are about 25 190 F/O's that, believe it or not, want to stay on the airplane for now (like holding a line, don't need the pay, etc.). I know this from asking a 190 F/O or Captain whenever I got the chance. Also, the most senior guy bidding off the airplane in the last bid (November) was around number 23 or so on the airplane.

Anyway, 73 total positions minus the top 25 who want to stay equals approximately 50 "original East guys" that want to bid off. 10 already have. That leaves 40 original guys left. If 50 are coming off the airplane that can only mean the other 10 are newly recalled guys that want to bid off.

The word has in the school house from the higher ups has been they will let us out of our training freeze. We may know for sure if that's the case- the bid closes on December 5th.

 

[Question4U]

The word has in the school house from the higher ups has been they will let us out of our training freeze. We may know for sure if that's the case- the bid closes on December 5th.[/QUOTE]

I just don't see the company letting anybody out of the seat lock that has already started training on the 190 when they can get another warm body off furlough to fill positions needed. They don't care what is right it is all about the money.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Wow! Cool. Well good luck guys. That'd be pretty epic if they let folks out of training locks.

Does this happen in March with training dates later? I'm unfamiliar with the East way of bidding.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I can't believe we're still having a civil conversation between East and West.

Don't tell MCDU

 

[Crzipilot]

Generally, on the east side, the bid effective date, is supposed to be the date that you are available and qualified for that position. This bid mentioned, some training could begin as early december.

Of course the company, with the give backs, can hold people in positions for up to 12 months. (even if they aren't seat/aircraft locked) But they will pay you if there is a pay differential involved......

 

[Bad-Andy]

Generally, on the east side, the bid effective date, is supposed to be the date that you are available and qualified for that position. This bid mentioned, some training could begin as early december.

Of course the company, with the give backs, can hold people in positions for up to 12 months. (even if they aren't seat/aircraft locked) But they will pay you if there is a pay differential involved......

Crzi,

Quick question about the "hold." I've heard two answers to this. If you are awarded a different base on the bid, but they hold you in your current/base equipment, after the effective date of the bid, do you get pos space travel and a hotel until you are base advanced? The Captain I just flew with told me that.

For example, I'm on the PHL 190, I hold CLT 319 on the bid. But, they hold me in PHL for a few months. After March 1 (when I would not have been commuting had I been base advanced), do they have to pay for my hotels in PHL? Thanks.

 

[dugan jones]

Crzi,

Quick question about the "hold." I've heard two answers to this. If you are awarded a different base on the bid, but they hold you in your current/base equipment, after the effective date of the bid, do you get pos space travel and a hotel until you are base advanced? The Captain I just flew with told me that.

For example, I'm on the PHL 190, I hold CLT 319 on the bid. But, they hold me in PHL for a few months. After March 1 (when I would not have been commuting had I been base advanced), do they have to pay for my hotels in PHL? Thanks.

I think the contract says that you are not entitled to a hotel if you are a suspected terrorist....ie people that get detained in dulles :laugh:

 

[Bad-Andy]

I think the contract says that you are not entitled to a hotel if you are a suspected terrorist....ie people that get detained in dulles :laugh:

I keeeel you......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTsQng-70o

(Sorry, thread drift...)

 

[hockeypilot44]

I've got to admitt, I'm pretty torn on the subject of USAirways- got a lot of hard thinking to do. However, the cold hard truth and fact of the matter is that they've furloughed EVERYONE they've ever hired for the last 20 years........ From an applicants standpoint, it's an all in poker hand.

I agree that is what I am hoping for. Time will tell and you never know what will happen. I think it is worth the risk.[/QUOTE]

Worth the risk? Are you out of your mind? It's the worst job in the industry. Lowest payrates, highest chance of furlough, highest chance of never seeing a raise. What's the reward if things pan out for you? A captain seat that pays what a Delta 757 first officer makes. I would say the risk far outweighs the reward, but I have a job right now.

 

[B-atch]

Stay AWAY from this place!! Not even worth a look......

 

[Dornier 335]

hey Dornier are you at JS?

No, am an ex-Waterskier.

 

[St. Nic]

Stay AWAY from this place!! Not even worth a look......

What about the attrition? Its a comin!

 

[Question4U]

I agree that is what I am hoping for. Time will tell and you never know what will happen. I think it is worth the risk.

Worth the risk? Are you out of your mind? It's the worst job in the industry. Lowest payrates, highest chance of furlough, highest chance of never seeing a raise. What's the reward if things pan out for you? A captain seat that pays what a Delta 757 first officer makes. I would say the risk far outweighs the reward, but I have a job right now.[/QUOTE]


Just remmember everthing is cyclical your job may not be there tomorrow, DAL likes to furlough too. What is good today may not be tomorrow. Remember when people would leave SWA for UAL and others you never know. Good luck.

 

[waveflyer]

Well, if those FOs would just retire and get out of my seat(!)--

(think about that...there's enough truth to that joke that it's funnier and classless than it ought to be...)

 

[Captzaahlie]

What about the attrition? Its a comin!

Downsizing and more outsourcing quickly fixes that...

 

[zymotic]

Crzi,

Quick question about the "hold." I've heard two answers to this. If you are awarded a different base on the bid, but they hold you in your current/base equipment, after the effective date of the bid, do you get pos space travel and a hotel until you are base advanced? The Captain I just flew with told me that.

For example, I'm on the PHL 190, I hold CLT 319 on the bid. But, they hold me in PHL for a few months. After March 1 (when I would not have been commuting had I been base advanced), do they have to pay for my hotels in PHL? Thanks.

Don't know about positive space but, according to section 24, if you if held you are entitled to expenses outlined in 5(B)4 through 6.

 

[zymotic]

I don't remember that. I do think the actual number will be around 150 at least. This is all speculation, so no need to ask for your money back or nothin.

Their RSV rules suck and are worse than my regional, just like their JR MAN rules.

-11 days off (Company has already agreed to 12/13 in next contract)

-short call is 90 minutes and there is no requirement that you actually get there in 90 mins, just be that close when you take the call. That is only improvement.

-long call is 9 hours (Company has already agreed to 12 in next contract, like current West) Each and every sequence of RSV days, the company can AND WILL call you to tell you...surprise! Your dumb arse is now on short call! How you like them apples? You can't do anything about it. They can do it every day of the year. You will have lost out on a better schedule you could have secured in a HL, Short call line and still end up with Short call. You only get a pro-rated boost in pay guarantee (72 long-76 short). It's great!

The real peach
-Jr. Man- There is no additional pay! There is no limit to how many they can slam into your anus. I say again for the dumbstruck...There is no additional pay!!!

I have longed to become a major airline pilot, but alas, this has not yet taken place. Perhaps after a real contract instead of this bastardized 1998 CBA that was taken to the woodshed via concessionary LOA's, the number of which I have lost count. Each and every one of these were agreed to by the current pilots at US Airways East, by the way. It is a messy bed that they sleep in, indeed. These would include permitting 38 CRJ-900's to fly their routes, while providing no furlough protection. But hey, at least the wholly owned carriers have been kept down in their place!

See, LCC is unique and therefore cannot pay their employees an industry standard wage. They are also unique in that their management has required 60% increases in pay, whilst the pilots have enjoyed an increase of 0.4%. We are special like a short bus, alright.

Meanwhile, the operation leads in on time performance and many piles of dog vomit in pilot uniforms are working voluntarily over the MANDATORY PAY CAPS and taking home over 105 hours of pay in a month WHILE PILOTS ARE FURLOUGHED!

If you get a breather in training you might take a closer look at the contract and LOA 84 and 93. If you get a little more familiar with it you might find it isn't as bad as you portray it. For example, there are stipulations on being transitioned to short call. Also, I really can't conceive of ever being junior manned? Why? Because I don't ever answer my phone on days off and I'm also not required to answer my phone when I'm on a trip, after I'm assigned a trip as a long call, and up to 12 hours prior to a trip if I'm short call. Why reserve pilots think they have to answer their phone on a trip or during their rest period or on days off is beyond me. Check your voicemail. Take the trip if it works out for you. If not, let them send a Chief Pilot to meet you at the jetbridge if they really want to POTA you.

So I am a bit dumbstruck how many guys complain about being Jr. manned.

 

[Crzipilot]

Crzi,

Quick question about the "hold." I've heard two answers to this. If you are awarded a different base on the bid, but they hold you in your current/base equipment, after the effective date of the bid, do you get pos space travel and a hotel until you are base advanced? The Captain I just flew with told me that.

For example, I'm on the PHL 190, I hold CLT 319 on the bid. But, they hold me in PHL for a few months. After March 1 (when I would not have been commuting had I been base advanced), do they have to pay for my hotels in PHL? Thanks.

from what I can tell your are confusing two things here. Your not being base held, but your on a training freeze for the new equipment. Just so happens that the new equipment is in a new base too. (could be wrong and didn't look that far into it)

But for the equipment hold. Starting on March 1, the company must reimburse you for expenses. From the contract (which looking through LOA 84/93 can't see where it's been changed.....) it states...(which rereading this it does state held at different domicile, but I came to these paragraphs in the contract via a footnote in the vacancy section regarding training hold

5. A Reserve pilot held at a domicile after the effective bid date at another
domicile shall be reimbursed for reasonable and bona fide hotel and meal expenses for all periods of required availability. Receipts must substantiate these expenses.

6. Pilots requesting reimbursement pursuant to paragraphs 4. and 5. above
shall be required to use hotels that have been designated by the Company as layover hotels for other flight crewmembers. Alternative accommodations may be considered on an individual basis, subject to prior Company approval


Now when you are afforded the final move to your new base, the company is supposed to provide 5 settling days (attached to normal days off)

I can't find anything regarding POS travel during the holds or before settling days are given. Though didn't look too hard.

Check section 5

Don't take my word for it. but I guess they just owe you per diem while sitting reserve, and pay for your hotel or crash pad (if they approve) while in base....

 

[Crzipilot]

On another note. Are there any furloughed guys that haven't come back yet? had a buddy that's on voluntary, and he got his take it or leave it letter. Thought there were still guys out on involuntary that bypassed the 190???

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

You can't get a take it or leave it letter for the 190. But, I've heard they're calling guys to come back from Voluntary and that those are the guys getting the take it or leave it letter.