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US Airways Contract Projections

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Turtle21 said:
Its always about seniority. That's just reality that any union pilot knows. Everything begins and ends with seniority. No one would ever entertain trading one for the other, even if such a ridiculous, fanciful notion could even ever exist.

Crandall was interviewed by Bloomberg (published today) and he even gets it. The one obstacle he has to the AA/USAir merger: "The key issue is Pilots have to agree on a seniority integration scheme." "I think the merger is doable and there is some appeal.. but it needs that pilot integration cooperation."

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/amer...ble-crandall-says-T~TDX_ApS1WczfVNFmQxtA.html

APA and USAPA get it. Now on the table. LOS +1 for APA, 7 year fence. One contract all pilots on date of signing.
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Actually, he doesn't get it. He was unaware that we already did the seniority list, but one party refuses to abide by their word. Bob has been properly educated. Everyone else knows that USAPA's sole purpose is a DOH land grab where a furloughed FO can unseat a working captain.

It will all be over very soon if the merger goes through. It might not be the way I think it will happen (although logic, law, ethics & morals dictate it should), but I'd bet a bunch of bananas that it won't go the way you think it will. APA is keenly aware of the legal trapeze act that USAPA is performing.

Happy days boys. Maybe St. Nic is closer than you think (it is December, afterall).
 
Superbird said:
Maybe this year, you should have your grandchildren read the Nicolau Award to you in its entirety, followed by the Addington transcripts and including Judge Wake and Judge Silver. Those little guys and gals may be able to clue you in on the facts and explain to you what you are failing to see. Integrity matters Marine.

Dont get all worked up over my avatar, rather stick to the facts and important details. I may change it just for you.
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I have read the entire award and I will admit his methodology seemed ok but the end result screwed us so we fight on. There should have been some integrity in an organization (ALPA) that I was paying lots of money to. Thanks though for addressing me as Marine...haven't heard that for a few yeas and I really wish I was still in but to old!
 
charlie2 said:
I have read the entire award and I will admit his methodology seemed ok but the end result screwed us so we fight on. There should have been some integrity in an organization (ALPA) that I was paying lots of money to. Thanks though for addressing me as Marine...haven't heard that for a few yeas and I really wish I was still in but to old!
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Should we address you as "Captain" too? How long has it been?

hmmmm, the methodology was ok, but then end result screwed you? How? Because it wasnt doh? ALPA failed both properties. We agreed to binding arbitration, did we not?!?
 
Superbird said:
Should we address you as "Captain" too? How long has it been?

hmmmm, the methodology was ok, but then end result screwed you? How? Because it wasnt doh? ALPA failed both properties. We agreed to binding arbitration, did we not?!?
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Not an airline captain but a Marine Lieutent Colonel...got passed over for O6 a million times and took the hint and retired. We already know that you want a guy in traing to win an arbitration and be us old guys captains but sit back a second...do you really think we aren't going to fight it? You do have to admit one thing...we have fought it for quite a few years without losing yet!
 
Superbird said:
Do you consider Usapa corrupt?
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I hate unions but in this stupid business of flying a family to Wally World I think it is a necessity. One of the reasons I think that it is importent is because of senority which is based on date of hire. I had a freind who was a pilot in Croatia who because of his MIG-21 flying for the Yugoslavian Air Force was constantly passed over for captain and new hires were put in his left seat.
 
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charlie2 said:
You haven't seen the route maps. There is very little overlap.
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I haven't seen the routemaps?

Who are you, my guardian angel?

I have seen them.

Look, I'm not saying that individual routes overlap. They don't. But I just see a lot of areas where there is a lot of overlapping service within the region. i.e. if someone wants to fly on Merged-US-AA from IAH to LHR, do they need connecting options in ORD, JFK, PHL, MIA, and CLT? That can be consolidated. Look at what DL has done with MEM and CVG. That's all my point is.

I think pilot career progression would be much better at each carrier if there were no merge.
 
DYLIN said:
I haven't seen the routemaps?

Who are you, my guardian angel?

I have seen them.

Look, I'm not saying that individual routes overlap. They don't. But I just see a lot of areas where there is a lot of overlapping service within the region. i.e. if someone wants to fly on Merged-US-AA from IAH to LHR, do they need connecting options in ORD, JFK, PHL, MIA, and CLT? That can be consolidated. Look at what DL has done with MEM and CVG. That's all my point is.

I think pilot career progression would be much better at each carrier if there were no merge.
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You may very well be right about this. I am looking at the domestic and international route charts right now (AA red LCC blue) and I still think there is very little overlap. I've never been a believer in the "shrink to profitabily" theory so if I were king (which I will be soon) I would want a hub in every big city.
 
charlie2 said:
Not an airline captain but a Marine Lieutent Colonel...got passed over for O6 a million times and took the hint and retired. We already know that you want a guy in traing to win an arbitration and be us old guys captains but sit back a second...do you really think we aren't going to fight it? You do have to admit one thing...we have fought it for quite a few years without losing yet!
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You also havent won. SO in essense you are losing, everyday. The money you should have earned, vacation time with family and time off with grand kids because you are supporting a fallacy. All to be the lowest paid pilots. You're certainly stuck on "guys who were in training", it tells me that you were furloughed.
 
cactusboy53 said:
Everyone else knows that USAPA's sole purpose is a DOH land grab where a furloughed FO can unseat a working captain.
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Inflammatory crap alert!

No one's unseating anyone, and that wasn't going to happen under any circumstances at any point in the history of this debacle.

Perhaps...just maybe....irresponsible rhetoric like this has hindered the two groups from moving forward.

Good luck with the turbo-growth in PHX. Hope you can find enough good pilots in the pipeline to handle it. I heard there was going to be a PHX-TUS-YUM shuttle operation starting up.....going to be HUGE! Finally, your career expectations are going to be realized (one way, or another.)
 
charlie2 said:
You may very well be right about this. I am looking at the domestic and international route charts right now (AA red LCC blue) and I still think there is very little overlap. I've never been a believer in the "shrink to profitabily" theory so if I were king (which I will be soon) I would want a hub in every big city.
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That's just it though. A hub in every big city never lasts.

Does CLT have enough O&D to support a hub if it no longer is needed for connections? US Airways utilizes it to backup PHL east of the Mississippi, which works great, but if DFW and ORD exist, is CLT needed? Or would CLT go the way of CVG/MEM have, with flights to the hubs but nonstop service to other destinations dwindling down to almost nothing?

Same with out west. PHX is a robust hub so would flights be siphoned out of other west hubs such as LAX to consolidate?

Management loves to tout the synergies in a merge, but it's kind of a euphemism for "cutting out the slop" and condensing things. This always results in less employees.

I hope if this merge happens, that there is a minimal amount of that.
 
As everyone's posts indicate, it's all about seniority...

Just like Crandall said on Bloomberg... pilot seniority cooperation is the key to the merger. APA and USAPA reps are way more rational about this than the majority of posters here.
 
DYLIN said:
I haven't seen the routemaps?

Who are you, my guardian angel?

I have seen them.

Look, I'm not saying that individual routes overlap. They don't. But I just see a lot of areas where there is a lot of overlapping service within the region. i.e. if someone wants to fly on Merged-US-AA from IAH to LHR, do they need connecting options in ORD, JFK, PHL, MIA, and CLT? That can be consolidated. Look at what DL has done with MEM and CVG. That's all my point is.

I think pilot career progression would be much better at each carrier if there were no merge.
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Market forces would cause a shift in flying whether US Airways merges or not. The airline cannon survive on its own unless it undercuts competition via labor disfunction. A merger will deliver the substantial and job security.

DYLIN said:
That's just it though. A hub in every big city never lasts.

Does CLT have enough O&D to support a hub if it no longer is needed for connections? US Airways utilizes it to backup PHL east of the Mississippi, which works great, but if DFW and ORD exist, is CLT needed? Or would CLT go the way of CVG/MEM have, with flights to the hubs but nonstop service to other destinations dwindling down to almost nothing?

Same with out west. PHX is a robust hub so would flights be siphoned out of other west hubs such as LAX to consolidate?

Management loves to tout the synergies in a merge, but it's kind of a euphemism for "cutting out the slop" and condensing things. This always results in less employees.

I hope if this merge happens, that there is a minimal amount of that.
Click to expand...

American is very weak in the Southeast. Yes, Miami is in the Southeast, but no one is going to fly from Augusta to Miami to connect to the North or Western corners of the US.

The CLT Airport has 30 million people traveling though it a year. The terminals packed shoulder to shoulder and the airport authority believes there will be a substantial increase in O&D. Orr is planning on two more runways (between 36L/36C and West of 36L), an underground train system and two more separate terminals.



The Airport continues to acquire land on all sides:
Please be sure you review these files:

 
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135 retirements plus an extra 300 for everything else.

Medical, training float, ramping up the training dept, retirements out of there and parking domestic 737's but adding international flying with 3 person crews, 3 more E 190's spring of 2013 and lastly - they got behind and should've hired more than 135 in 2012.

585 in two years, not too shabby.
 
Hey why is it that parker was always saying u guys need to complete your sli before a new contract can be reached and yet unical just completed a new jcba without finishing their sli?
 
Turtle21 said:
As everyone's posts indicate, it's all about seniority...

Just like Crandall said on Bloomberg... pilot seniority cooperation is the key to the merger. APA and USAPA reps are way more rational about this than the majority of posters here.
Click to expand...

APA is going to inherit multi million dollar legal bills if they don't use the Nic. That has been made abundantly clear by the West pilots. Sure, the East will sue but the difference is the East's suit will get tossed out of court. The West has a sledge hammer and is more than happy to use it.

So, in terms of being rational...the APA is rational. ****************************** is now, and always has been, run by an immature group of scab cowards. APA is going to steamroll USAPA....by design.
 

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