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labbats

Zulu who?
Joined
May 25, 2003
Posts
2,593
I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, so I was looking to this board to help me understand something.

United is trying to exit bankruptcy through dumping its pensions. Wouldn't it be better for all involved for them to simply go under? I'm not saying this with malice, but even those who may lose their jobs would be better off if they still had a pension to begin with, and other airlines wouldn't see this as a loophole they could use to boost profits. Simply put, wouldn't it be a better overall answer for United to simply fold rather than set a precedent of pension raiding to overcome bankruptcy? People would lose their seniority and jobs, yes, and that is terrible, but the other option is everyone else in this industry losing their promised retirement.
 
Pensions?

I believe that US Air already set the precedent for dumping the pensions. The pension is a thing we will never see again on the large scale. Sure there are some still out there.

I can't see a benefit to UAL going under. Think about it, you have 20 years seniority, and 10 years left. There is no way it's better to start all over again at the bottom. You're not going to get a pension anywhere else!

Try to think of a benefit to your airline just going away.

We need to stick together as pilots. Not hope the other guy loses out so that we can benefit. It seems that pilots are pilots own worst enemy.
 
I'm not saying this with malice, but even those who may lose their jobs would be better off if they still had a pension to begin with,

If United goes under the current and former employees still lose their pensions. It sounds like you think a liquidation would mean they get to keep pensions. They would be funded at the same level either way, only with a liquidation there are no replacement defined contribution type retirement plans.

People would lose their seniority and jobs, yes, and that is terrible, but the other option is everyone else in this industry losing their promised retirement.

The problem is, the trend is already no defined benefit pensions. I would opine that regardless of what happens to United, the legacies with pensions still have to deal with Frontier, Airtran, Southwest, and JetBlue, all of which have less expensive defined contribution plans. Of the LCCs I just mentioned, I hope Airtran's retirement plan will be the model - check out their B plan - very respectable, and head and shoulders above a matching 401K.


 
I don't see how letting an other airline go under works for anyone else but the competition. Are you saying that I should give up my job for the greater good of the rest of the industry, and then you all can enjoy the fruits of good times and enjoy your life, and I should feel all warm and fuzzy because your life is better at my expense.
Guess what Genuis, I worked long and hard to get where I am now, and what is in it for me?
The fact that you may want a good life in this industry meens nothing to me.
I want one too.
So get off your butt and work for it, don't expect me to roll over and give it to you,because you work for someone that is doing OK for the moment.
Your time on the other end of the pendulem will come.
Before you post some drivel like you just did, think about what the other end of the spectrum looks like before you start spouting off.
We all work for bettering our lives, And I'll be dammed if I will let some jerk off say on these boards that they deserve to have something that I have worked Damn hard for, just because it's for the good of them,without a rebuttal.

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?
Are you better than the rest of us?
Let it fly now folks. I'm ready for the replys
 
Airbusnut, I don't think labbats post was meant to be mean spirited - look at how he starts off saying he is not the brightest bulb.

Fact is, people look out for their own best interests, and there are many hoping for the demise of others. Just look how much negative stuff is posted on here compared to positive. Whatever.
 
Airbusnut1 said:
I don't see how letting an other airline go under works for anyone else but the competition. Are you saying that I should give up my job for the greater good of the rest of the industry, and then you all can enjoy the fruits of good times and enjoy your life, and I should feel all warm and fuzzy because your life is better at my expense.
Guess what Genuis, I worked long and hard to get where I am now, and what is in it for me?
The fact that you may want a good life in this industry meens nothing to me.
I want one too.
So get off your butt and work for it, don't expect me to roll over and give it to you,because you work for someone that is doing OK for the moment.
Your time on the other end of the pendulem will come.
Before you post some drivel like you just did, think about what the other end of the spectrum looks like before you start spouting off.
We all work for bettering our lives, And I'll be dammed if I will let some jerk off say on these boards that they deserve to have something that I have worked dang hard for, just because it's for the good of them,without a rebuttal.

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?
Are you better than the rest of us?
Let it fly now folks. I'm ready for the replys

Ready? Fire! Aim!

I saw this coming. I'll say it again. I just wanted to understand the big picture, and the media hasn't been much help to say the least. However, the above posts cleared it up. Thank you.
 
Airbusnut1 said:
I don't see how letting an other airline go under works for anyone else but the competition.

Well, buddy, you lost me here, because "letting your airline go under" would be preferable to letting it operate for years in bankruptcy, while the rest of us have to pay our bills.


So get off your butt and work for it, don't expect me to roll over and give it to you,because you work for someone that is doing OK for the moment.

KInd of like what the taxpayers might be saying to United, especially after getting saddled with your pension payments.
 
JetScreamDriver said:
I believe that US Air already set the precedent for dumping the pensions. The pension is a thing we will never see again on the large scale. Sure there are some still out there.

I can't see a benefit to UAL going under. Think about it, you have 20 years seniority, and 10 years left. There is no way it's better to start all over again at the bottom. You're not going to get a pension anywhere else!

Try to think of a benefit to your airline just going away.

We need to stick together as pilots. Not hope the other guy loses out so that we can benefit. It seems that pilots are pilots own worst enemy.

Our ALPA brothers and sisters blew it years ago when they couldn't come to grips with forming a real national seniority list.

A pilot with 20 years in and 10 left will do most anything to keep his/her job (paycuts, loss of pension, benefits, etc...). Jetscream is correct. These people don't want to start over again. When faced with the reality of taking a 50% paycut (still making $100k/yr), loss of pension, etc... OR starting over again at the bottom making $40k/yr and still no pension - what would you do? I'd try to save my $100k job with every ounce of strength. It $ucks, but it could be worse.

Cheers!

GP
 

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