Union getting serious at CitationAir

[imacdog]

Rigger, for comparison, the 1.5% union dues that NJA pilots pay are quite a bit less than the medical premiums that they would be paying if no-premium plans were not negotiated into the contract. That clause alone more than offsets the measly 1.5% union dues, not to mention the additional protections afforded by an enforceable contract.

 

[rigger]

Rigger, you are right, up to a point. Now might be a good time to remind you that the union IS the pilots. Some unions are better than others. Some were good, and went bad. Look at ALPA. You should read Flying The Line. It's a fantastic read, and gives a great perspective on where we, as an industry, were prior to ALPA, and where we're at now. Gives a great perspective on what things would really be like if pilots had no union and "worked things out" directly between the pilots and management. It also makes it all the sadder to see what has happened to ALPA over the years. But ALPA was necessary, and most of the pilots who enjoy a great job today still have ALPA to thank for it.

Now, will a union be right for the pilots of CA? I don't know. I don't work there. But if a union is needed, it'll be voted in. If it's not needed, they won't get one. It's not a perfect solution, but what is?

As for examples, ask yourself where the pilots would be without their respective unions of the following carriers:

FedEx
UPS
American
Delta
Southwest
Netjets (after 15 years here, I can personally tell you about this one)
Continental
Etc, etc, etc.......

Union at CA. No union at CA. Whatever. Unions aren't all good, and aren't always necessary. But they aren't all bad either and have done a whole lot of good for a whole lot of people. Good luck CA pilots!

I have no argument at all about this point, i was with ALPA 2 times in my carrer and understand the plus and minus. I Also have read flying the line and understand the need as it was 70 years ago. The times have changed though perhaps the unions are still needed in some place as there are still people ( management) that will not do the right thing. But as you point out perhaps they are not needed.
Unions are supposed to be the "pilots" sounds like a great idea and works great when left to work....problem is Unions have become more corporate than a lot of the companies they represent, look inot the books and you see a huge money making operation, that will not give up it's power gat any cost ( even its members)
I work at C A my card is in and i believe the voice of the pilots needs to be heard, the company has lost sight of its original intent. That said i still believe the issues can be fixed without a union.....but then again i have been called a boyscout many times!

I will say this though, we have more than the 35 % needed for a vote but the IBT will not call for it yet because they want 60-70% now here is my problem with the "pilots are in charge arguement. The pilots are now getting a bit disgruntled about the lack of anything happenning. The company is getting fed up as we have been in lab conditions for 4 months now. The drive is fast loosing steam.....this is 100% in the control of the IBT but they will not call it yet cause they cannot afford a black eye as loosing a vote, so the pilots are left holding the bag cause of political corporate BS. If as you say pilots control the union then a vote would tKe place either way. This is the problem at CA today a lot of puff but no backbone to do the right thing no matter the outcome. Have the vote, if you win great, if you loose great, either way you can come back in a year and try again.....but stop playing politics before you even get on property!

 

[PRFDLT]

Realityman The carriers you listed have done well but again in good times and how many of them are represented by the teamsters? CA pilots that seem to be leading this charge are not from the time of beginning years of the company. Take a look at the starting salary and benifits of 10 years ago. When economy was booming they hired, promoted, expanded, and increased salaries just like others. Personally I would prefer a long career at a steady salary the reaping big in the good times then starving in a down turn.

 

[G4dude]

Realityman The carriers you listed have done well but again in good times and how many of them are represented by the teamsters? CA pilots that seem to be leading this charge are not from the time of beginning years of the company. Take a look at the starting salary and benifits of 10 years ago. When economy was booming they hired, promoted, expanded, and increased salaries just like others. Personally I would prefer a long career at a steady salary the reaping big in the good times then starving in a down turn.

Great post.

 

[The Dude Abides]

Looks like the votes going to happen. 6/14-7/6.

 

[bailout]

Votes are in progress!!!!!!!!!

 

[RCR5]

Yes they are. They got my 'No' vote.

 

[bailout]

Well, they got my YES vote, so we're both cancelled out.. lol...

 

[FRACTRASH]

They got my NO vote! we're one up now. lol.

 

[FRACTRASH]

My gut feeling, tells me it's going to be very close, possibly slightly in favor of the Union. That's unfortunate. I just hope this doesn't come around and bite us in the A$$! Everything we do have will be at risk during negotiations.

 

[brokeflyer]

good luck you guys. Hope they vote the union in. It'll do you all a lotta good.

 

[CA1900]

Everything we do have will be at risk during negotiations.

Of course, without a contract, everything you have is at risk anyway. I speak from experience at my previous non-union (at the time) company.

Good luck either way.

 

[vrb115]

Hey Fractrash.....YES from me...

 

[7on7Off]

Of course, without a contract, everything you have is at risk anyway. I speak from experience at my previous non-union (at the time) company.

Good luck either way.

Not trying to pick a fight (seriously) but have you talked to anyone still there to see how well ALPA's done for them?

 

[FRACTRASH]

Hey Fractrash.....YES from me...

That's OK I still love you man!

 

[dime line]

Not trying to pick a fight (seriously) but have you talked to anyone still there to see how well ALPA's done for them?

Your kidding right?

 

[The Dude Abides]

Everything we do have will be at risk during negotiations.

Have? More like informational.

 

[The Dude Abides]

Election results in. IBT wins.

 

[dime line]

Election results in. IBT wins.

Let The Games begin!
Stay strong, we at FLOPS just lived the "how to" manuel for company games. Don't be afraid to ask a FLOPS pilot questions while on the road.

 

[bailout]

WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CA1900]

Congratulations, guys!

 

[fischman]

"Your Awesomeness" approves...:beer:

 

[Krapflier]

My gut feeling, tells me it's going to be very close, possibly slightly in favor of the Union. That's unfortunate. I just hope this doesn't come around and bite us in the A$$! Everything we do have will be at risk during negotiations.

Prophetic...

 

[Fresh Air]

To you Citation Air pilots who made the difficult choice to defy your corporate managers and begin the process of negotiating a contract that will give you some measure of control over your futures: I truly hope that CA management will learn from the mistakes made by FLOPS management that resulted in a long, bitter contract battle which nearly put us out of business. May they have the sense to realize that it is in their best interests to work with you diligently and in good faith to achieve a fair and equitable CBA.

 

[PRFDLT]

Oh wait. About put you out of business negotiating. So that was never one of the points brought up. Hope everyone still has a job in 3 or 4 year and by the way it is spelled manual.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ummm, yeah. Good luck with that.

 

[realityman]

Oh wait. About put you out of business negotiating. So that was never one of the points brought up. Hope everyone still has a job in 3 or 4 year and by the way it is spelled manual.

We did it at Netjets, we're still here.

FLOPS did it, they're still around (and apparently growing again).

Fresh Air has the truth of it. This could be a tremendous opportunity for both the pilots and management of CA to work together to come up with a product that's fair for both sides, promotes mutual respect, and allows room for both side to grow. It doesn't have to be confrontational.

While it started out that way at NJA, in the end both sides decided to work together for the betterment of the company, and everyone's future. Neither side is entirely happy with what's in the contract, but then again, both sides aren't entirely displeased either. And please don't try to blame NJA's recent financial troubles on the union. I'm pretty sure it was 99% the economy that caused the vast majority of the problems.

The point is, if both sides work together and with respect, a good product can result that will leave most on both sides reasonably happy (sorry, no such thing as a perfect contract for either side).

For the record, it's usually management that starts the game-playing in negotiations. So I'm with Fresh Air in wishing all of you at CA that your management doesn't go down that road.
And if they do, well, it may be difficult, but hang together and you'll pull through with something you can be proud of.

Good luck CA pilots!!

 

[Praetorian]

Prophetic...

First sentence prophetic.
Second sentence idiotic.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Let's start some pattern bargaining guys!

 

[rajflyboy]

Congratulations guys!

Now take management in a headlock and get the schedule and bennies and pilot protections you so deserve