Union coming at Flexjet!

[warlord19]

Mr. exagony, on 4-9-2011 you wrote your somewhat paranoid “consequences” and “hostile working environment” missive, and asked for HR Gurus to affirm your decree. That, to me, is just another generalized statement aimed at stirring the pot, and was not meant to be instructive to anyone in any meaningful way. I responded to your call for thoughts, and said that “anytime anyone opposes a union here blah,blah...I take your statements, along with most others, as an attack on anyone who has different thoughts about unions. I couldn't find where I accused you personally of anything. And of course that famous poster and troll Whizz or Grizz or whoever had to make his enlightening comment. I don't care for that boy.
Anyways, I appreciate you posting that link to the other F-H site. Being a management pilot and all, I should know this, but can you tell me for sure if we employ them...I really don't know, but after looking at their web-site, hope we do.
Oh, BTW, if you don't know any of the consequences of bringing a union on property, perhaps you should look into it.
It's late, so I'm going to get inside my aluminum foil lined pyramid and catch a few zzzzz's. THEY can't track me in there, ya know.
WL

 

[exagony]

Mr. exagony, on 4-9-2011 you wrote your somewhat paranoid “consequences” and “hostile working environment” missive, and asked for HR Gurus to affirm your decree. That, to me, is just another generalized statement aimed at stirring the pot, and was not meant to be instructive to anyone in any meaningful way. I responded to your call for thoughts, and said that “anytime anyone opposes a union here blah,blah...I take your statements, along with most others, as an attack on anyone who has different thoughts about unions. I couldn't find where I accused you personally of anything. And of course that famous poster and troll Whizz or Grizz or whoever had to make his enlightening comment. I don't care for that boy.
Anyways, I appreciate you posting that link to the other F-H site. Being a management pilot and all, I should know this, but can you tell me for sure if we employ them...I really don't know, but after looking at their web-site, hope we do.
Oh, BTW, if you don't know any of the consequences of bringing a union on property, perhaps you should look into it.
It's late, so I'm going to get inside my aluminum foil lined pyramid and catch a few zzzzz's. THEY can't track me in there, ya know.
WL

Let me copy your post personally accusing me of attacking people:
My thoughts.....your full of *hit. Anytime anyone opposes a union on property or has a different view ie independant, you attack them personally, call them names, and generally come up with something like your post, whose ONLY purpose is to stir the pot. I think your troll "Grizz" calls them straw persons, erh, men.
WL

Seems pretty straight forward to me...

Seems to like you F&H guys need to get together and vette your posts....Already know the consequences of bringing a union on the property... also have been here long enough to see/experience the consequences of not having a union on property.

 

[warlord19]

Exagony, you need to review your basic English structure. The "you" which you take so personally, refers to it's antecedant "anyone". You probably need to move on, Brother.
WL

 

[Club ORD FO]

OK heres a question for the furloughed Flexers. Do you wish we had a union here when you got furloughed? Or would you have been no better off than the current situation.

Just wondering your thoughts, thanks

 

[netjetwife]

Flex will never have what it takes to unionize, its all talk!!!!!!

Some here used to say that about Flt Ops and now they have a contract in place to build upon with rules that must be followed and a voice that can't be ignored. The FUD spreaders also used to tell NJA pilots to give up their pursuit of a fair contract, claiming they didn't have what it takes....

Flex pilots as a group (not a few insulting posters here) will collectively decide their fate, as many others before them have, but I have no doubt that professional pilots capable of delivering exceptional service in often challenging conditions can figure out how to speak to management with one voice and are certainly able to discuss what they want in a contract.

 

[OldCrow]

19

Well hello Warlord 19. I am a FLOPs Pilot. I know I have seen your one sided posts before during our union drive...perhaps you were B 19 back then. No matter. We, collectively/majority, disregarded your management "perfect world" rants for 3 years. We now have a CBA, and even though we are still the lowest paid frac, it is the best thing we ever did, with what we had to work with/without.
If FLEX or CA are in the same, or even close, to the same situation we were in, how could you even think there would be a different outcome? Other than our neck ties, we are all pretty much the same cut of cloth, pardon the pun.
We are recalling pilots, and adding to our fleet. Pilot shopping/pushing, and management defined duty days are a thing of the past. Even though we are still the lowest paid, we still got over a 18% raise in pay, with no chance of reduction, creep, slide to parity, or any other such nonsense with regard to our pay benefits. I'm very happy with that.
The rumor was FLOPs was paying Ford&Harrison close to $2,000.000 per year to keep us from our current CBA...what a waste. In my opinion, it is without doubt you are not a line Pilot. I'm sure that pilots at FLEX and CA can figure it out. If you were a line Pilot, you would know it to
You REAL line Pilots, please ask allot of questions, to include stopping any Flight Options Pilot and get both sides of the issue. And there are two sides. We made our choice, and over 80% are happy with the result. Best of luck ya'll !!

 

[netjetwife]

....... Best of luck ya'll !!

Hear, hear, OC! Good post! I well remember all those FUD-filled rants and the management paid-for anti-union smear campaign the Options group stood up against to get their first (usually the most difficult) contract. Your group has reason to crow.... Pun intended....

On a more serious note, frac pilots (and families) do have much in common and the gains by one group have been proven to benefit others in the industry. Kudos to the Flex and CA pilots for standing up for themselves, their families, and the profession. Absolutely...Best of luck ya'll !! NJW

 

[warlord19]

Well Hello to you, Mr. OldCrow. I am a Flexjet pilot. I've previously posted on THIS board that IF working conditions were as bad as the comments here indicated, then FO should probably unionize...I am not against unions if they are needed. I don't know where you came up with the “perfect world” claim. I know I don't work at a perfect company cause there is no such thing. I do, however, work at a company that improves itself all the time and will continue to do so. I certainly DON'T buy your thought that “one size fits all”, ie all Fracs need to unionize cause one or two fracs suck. I've never denied the fact there are 2 sides to any question...the question to Flex pilots is “what is in my best interest in this unionization vote.” I happen to think a majority of the pilots will say NO if it ever gets to that stage. And if enough of our pilots feel that our few problems are worth the costs of unionization, then we will have a union.
WL

 

[NewFlex]

warlord19 Identity confirmed, Thank You

 

[Cautious Belly]

Uh oh! Identity confirmed! That's Teamsterspeak for, "Now we'z know who youse iz, we'z gonna kneecap you, or wurz! Youz bez watch yez back, you!"

Pathetic wannabe goon.

 

[NewFlex]

warlord19=cautious belly, wow, you have a lot of different log ins don't you.

we know your writing.

go to sleep scrotty. wink wink

 

[warlord19]

My God, NewFlex, do I have time to hide my childrins, Granny, and the hogs 'fore you come an get me?? Yous guys are sumpin else.
WL

 

[Ludicris]

Corky McShorty

 

[Seahawk]

No union here. Go home!

 

[warlord19]

Hope everyone gets to enjoys this beautiful Sunday with their family and friends, or, if flying, your stick-buddy. We can resume the duel tomorrow if ya like.
WL
aka Cautious Belly, CL19, Pork Belly, Richard Nixon, Linda Lovelace, Geronimo, Julia Child, Mark Harmon, Harrison Ford, Rebecca Sue Lindsey,Corky Mc, Suzanne Summers, Carrot-Top, and others “they” haven't figured out yet.

 

[Cautious Belly]

We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us.

CB

 

[doh]

I have another question. I have elected to stay in the defined benefit pension. Will I still be able to do that after we sign a new contract, or will I have to give up my choice in favor of some defined contribution scheme that the union negotiates?

 

[pers-headwall]

Just ask what is happening to a senior 45 captain and then ask yourself why you need a union!

There is no excuse for not being able to pass a check ride. The training at Flex is more than fair and the check rides are far less difficult than my former employer. I support giving multiple chances and extra training,(as is always granted to Flex pilots) but at some point you have to "cut bait".

Unions are always claiming they are about safety, and I can think of nothing more important than a pilot being competent at what he does as a measure of safety. Being mediocre and protected by a union is not what our owners are paying for.

In order for a pilot to be fired for check ride failure there are multiple layers of decisions and measurements that have to take place before anyone can be dismissed, which include multiple groups of people to give the approval. Despite the inflammtory B.S. on this website, there are no "conspiracys" to single out any individuals.

The ignorance and mistatement of facts on this site leads me to believe there is no way I could trust these incompetent people to represent me.

 

[pers-headwall]

I'm finally turning in my card before it's too late.

Nobody has sold me yet on IBT. I'm still listening.

 

[pers-headwall]

ok so if it isn't right then what is it? I can tell you this; turning the FD off on a single engine approach is BS!

Single-Engine Raw data approach is proof we meet a higher safety standard. (Unions always claim they are about safety.) It is not that difficult! It is not "BS".

At my previous employer all check rides were done in the airplane and done raw data. There was no flight director and no auto-pilot. Also, if it was IMC, rain, snow, or icing we went on the check-ride, period. To whine about a raw data, single-engine approach in the simulator is the mark of a weak pilot.

I say safety first, which should include single-engine, raw data approaches.

 

[pers-headwall]

Flex guys -

This happens every time there is a card drive that is looking favorable for the pilots or contract negotiations that are getting to crunch time.

Nameless, faceless trolls from F&H and middle-management will be pulling out all the stops at this point. Unfortunately, they will also be assisted by the psuedo-management pilots that have gravy jobs in training, etc.

Keep pushing toward your goals. You deserve a contract that can't be violated willy-nilly.

As a regular line pilot, who has never set foot in the Waterview building, I can assure you that my anti-IBT views speak for the silent majority.

 

[pers-headwall]

Hey warlord the initials JC ring a bell??

Manipulating the schedule in order to get your "friends" some extra work on the sideand collecting a little "kick back" rather than work your real job at Flex is a fireable offense.

 

[pers-headwall]

Is it me or does it seem that management with their recent emails talking about the "consequences" of a union at Flexjt border on a "hostile working environment"? Any HR gurus on board? Its my impression that there is an underlying threat being presented by mgt towards those who are pro-union.... Thoughts?

They can speak freely if they want. It's called The First Amendment.

That does not constitute a "hostile work environment". Stop fabricating talking points.

 

[pers-headwall]

.....rumor has it they have used some of this info to drag people in for carpet dances trying to ferrett out union supporters or just plain harrass some into being moles.

Union supportive or not, I wouldn't use my company cell phone for anything. They can, have and will use the information to their advantage. Called in sick? Well they can see you're really out running errands not home in bed. Made a minor mistake on a flight? Well, maybe they'll chalk it up to the quick call you made to you're wife, call it deriliction of duty and fire you over it. Or just get onto you for too much talk time period. Now, I'm not saying these things are okay to do, I don't myself, but to hold the balance of one's career and family in their hands over pissy ant stuff is a bit much.

Well, I'm exeragerating a bit. They won't really fire you. They don't gave the stones for that themselves. They'll just make sure you get the fleet hatchet boy your next ride through the TC. Are TC guys mostly good guys just doing their jobs best they can - without a doubt yes. But the honest ones will admit they've all been asked to lean on certain guys a little harder than usual and the ones with integrity don't treat anyone any differently than they would otherwise. But every fleet has that one everyone dreads getting because they actaully enjoy the whole kingmaker fantasy they have going on in their head.

Dude,

That is what is known as "pulling something out of your ass".

You have absolutely zero knowledge of this occurring! This is a manufactured lie in order to play on the emotional fears of some of our weak minded types. Likely you are one of them if you believe in this far flung conspiracy.

This is without a doubt the dumbest post yet.

 

[warlord19]

Wow, this string has roared back to life!
Mr. doh, the defined benefit plan(dbp) used to be the standard for a lot of companies in the US. About 15-20 years ago companies started dropping them for costs, administrative, underfunding, and other reasons. They were replaced by the now ubiquitous 401K plans. Our dbp can be dropped by Bombardier at any time at their discretion(as could any company). Bombardier has kept it going 'cause some folks wanted it for various reasons, but they encouraged folks to change to 401K's. If a union were voted in, you could be sure that it would be dropped like a hot potato. Everything after that would have to be negotiated.
Mr. pers-headwall, welcome to the board(again). You might not have noticed yet, but a lot of posters here are PRO-UNION...yuk yuk. Anyways, you made some excellent points. One thing I would point out is that our TRB is modelled on a unionized pilot's method of dealing with pilots that have had some problems in the past..we've got basically the same deal without the dues and corruption. You'll find posters here ie Whizz(sp), dashtrasher, exagony, and dbman that post stuff here that is either totally false, half-truths, or a combination. When you or I or others shine a light on their BS, most come back with name-calling and all kinds of ingenious little quips totally unrelated to the discussion at hand. Again, if a union were NEEDED at Flex I would vote one in...anybody that weighs the pros and cons will probably come to the right conclusion. Not much you can say to the wannabe lemmings who's passions overwhelm any common sense they MIGHT have.
WL

 

[doh]

Warlord, they have dropped it for new employees. My point here is that I was given a choice and I chose to keep the DBP. I'm asking the rah-rahs if they will honor my choice, or will they force me into some collectivist plan, thus denying me my democratic and free choice.

 

[warlord19]

doh, I misunderstood your question, but now see the light. Don't think you're gonnin get an answer from the "rah-rahs" here, however.
Say, do they sell those cones(from your avatars) at Braums? Flavors??
WL

 

[dashtrasher]

Manipulating the schedule in order to get your "friends" some extra work on the sideand collecting a little "kick back" rather than work your real job at Flex is a fireable offense.

I guess that is why the Judge sided with JC in his wrongful termination suit against Flex.

 

[Necromonger]

Ugh-Humm.

Dude,

That is what is known as "pulling something out of your ass".

You have absolutely zero knowledge of this occurring! This is a manufactured lie in order to play on the emotional fears of some of our weak minded types. Likely you are one of them if you believe in this far flung conspiracy.

This is without a doubt the dumbest post yet.

Thank you for your posts Pers. I see you're taking an active roll on this site to try and weed through the BS out here. There is a lot of it on both sides. Just be careful with your accusations.

While you may feel that this is a lie, there is some truth in what he is saying. He did throw in the disclaimer about his exaggerations. I'm sure he was creating some drama for effect. Sometimes we just have to ignore the BS. Ask around, and you will find that several of your colleagues were called weeks ago to try and gather info on the whole movement. As far as being called into the office... just rumor (as far as I know). But, phone calls were made by ALL ACP's to their trusted sources.

To ALL Flexers: Keep asking questions, and make informed decisions. My BS meter gets pegged on Full every time I come out here. (from BOTH sides of the argument).

-OUT

 

[warlord19]

To all Free Flexers: I take anything Necromonger posts here about as seriously as I take him...his "aircraft flown" description is a reflection on his maturity. How he knows ALL ACP'S called their "trusted sources" we will never know...guess we have to trust him......NOT. His attempt at subtle manipulation is pretty lame.
WL