Union coming at Flexjet!

[2dotslow]

How do you prevent Emeryization from the company?

Help me out here, what does Emery-ization mean? Are you talking about Emery aircargo who's maintainence killed 3 people in San Jose and gave up their certificate and are now out of business, or what?

Sorry, it kind of hit a nerve. I knew the Captain on that flight.

2dots

 

[doh]

The guys I know from Emery say the company just quit trying to run a going concern after the pilots unionized. Management ran it into the ground and after the crashes (there were two I believe), they gave up the certificate while simultaneously contracting out all their flying. Management still got their money. There are four pilots I know who are ex Emery and all of them say that was the response because management was PO'ed about the union.

 

[2dotslow]

So I still don't know what you mean by Emery-ization, and what pilot is the other guy talking about?

2dots

 

[doh]

I have no idea who he is talking about. My question: What are the chances that Bombardier would close flex down and just sell airplanes if we unionize? Which is what Emery did. What contingency defense does the union have for such an occurrence? Has anyone even considered the possibility? Remember, Flexjet management does not ultimately have control, the parent does. How do you bind a foreign parent to a domestic contract?

 

[Dooker]

The guys I know from Emery say the company just quit trying to run a going concern after the pilots unionized. Management ran it into the ground and after the crashes (there were two I believe), they gave up the certificate while simultaneously contracting out all their flying. Management still got their money. There are four pilots I know who are ex Emery and all of them say that was the response because management was PO'ed about the union.

Ok, well ... Flexjet isn't Emery. And Bombardier's managed to do quite well for itself with an otherwise largely unionized workforce.

 

[FraxJockey]

This whole secretive attitude thing is one of the problems here. Some of you guys in the school house are way out of control!

Sorry you feel that way. Some of the best training I have had has been at Flexjet.

 

[BARNSTORM]

I'm finally turning in my card before it's too late.

 

[bunman45]

Sorry you feel that way. Some of the best training I have had has been at Flexjet.

We don't do training at flexjet. We do flight checks. You don't get any training unless you fail and that's only if the TRB says your worthy of training. Food for thought.

 

[bunman45]

Also, I should have said this is not the fault of the training center, but the amount of money budgeted by the company. Its all about xing the boxes and getting u back out there. The check airman are just doing their best with the resources that are given to them. That being said there is serious room for improvement.

 

[DirtyBeech]

I guess that Bombardier could dissolve FJ and flood the market with another 80+ used aircraft. It's certainly a possibility, but far from a probability. We still have aircraft on property that have been parked and for sale for two plus years. And let's not forget the owner contracts.

It's more likely that Bombardier will figure out how to operate with yet another unionized part of their operation. We're not asking for the world here. Will it cost the company more? Yes. Will it shut us down. No. We're not asking for pay raises or free healthcare for life. We want job protection and some tweaking of our work rules. It's up to us elect good and reasonable people to people to represent us. We can elect people who will make unrealistic demands, or we can do better.

Ask yourself one question. Do you want FR and DG negotiating for you in a merger/buyout situation? Do you feel confident in the direction of the company?

Send your cards in. They are not "yes" votes. They are yes I want to have a vote votes. Vote for change, or vote for the statu quo, but at least have a vote.

 

[FraxJockey]

We don't do training at flexjet. We do flight checks. You don't get any training unless you fail and that's only if the TRB says your worthy of training. Food for thought.

Sorry Bunman but I'll have to call BS on that. Everyone who busted got another chance. Some even got two. And realize to bust a 135 check you have to screw up 2-3 events. By the time someone busts, they earn it. No saying it is right, just stating the facts.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

We don't do training at flexjet. We do flight checks. You don't get any training unless you fail and that's only if the TRB says your worthy of training. Food for thought.

Bunman,

What do you call the simulator time the night before the checkride? How about the 4 days of ground training during your long recurrent? The FAA considers that training, not sure what your definition is.

You are also incorrect on the TRB. The TRB doesn't have the authority to give training. The TRB gives a recommendation to DG who makes the decision regarding additional training. This is usually re-qualification training, not the same as the training you are saying we are lacking.

If you want to scare our pilots into a union, at least use facts not myths. You lose credibility every time you post something that is so far from the truth.


TWA 2 ASA FO

 

[jetmaster727]

Sorry Bunman but I'll have to call BS on that. Everyone who busted got another chance. Some even got two. And realize to bust a 135 check you have to screw up 2-3 events. By the time someone busts, they earn it. No saying it is right, just stating the facts.

ok so if it isn't right then what is it? I can tell you this; turning the FD off on a single engine approach is BS!

 

[bunman45]

Bunman,

What do you call the simulator time the night before the checkride?

If you want to scare our pilots into a union, at least use facts not myths. You lose credibility every time you post something that is so far from the truth.


TWA 2 ASA FO

The sim the night before the flight check is a practice flight check. When is the last time you had any failures similar to what you had on your type ride? This is what i'm refering to. Not ground training. If you read my second post, you would see i just said their is serious room for improvement and there is. Clearly a nerve is struck here with you. Also, why does only one person have control over ones employment in regards to training rather than your committee who actually still flies the line? I'm Not trying to scare anybody into the union because I don't have to. You guys are doing it all by yourselves. Convince me your training is above and beyond industry standard. If your under the delusion everything is fine in the TC and no changes are needed, then maybe your not the guy for the job. Just sayin.

 

[2dotslow]

Just ask what is happening to a senior 45 captain and then ask yourself why you need a union!

So what happened? From what I hear, he's on a LOA. He still has a job.

 

[warlord19]

For Bunman and Jetmaster, the 2 checkrides given each year are ALMOST 100% driven by FAA requirements for these checkrides ie 2 precision and 2 non-precision approaches, single-enginge approach, etc. It is spelled out in FAA documents. If someone goes into the training center and wants nothing but practice on, say V1 cuts, I imagine the instructors would accommodate this wish as long as the student realized that his 2nd ride would be the normal checkride (and without the benefit of having practiced anything other than the V1 cuts that he(she) requested. The only manuever I am aware of that is not FAA-driven is the raw date approach, which is DO driven. And if Mr. Jetmaster727 is so afraid of flying the plane without a FD, he probably should try another profession...these FD's do fail occasionally, and having practiced in the Sim for such an event is the exact training I would want to have practiced.
WL

 

[brokeflyer]

these FD's do fail occasionally

it's the union's fault.....


haha

 

[warlord19]

Uh, Brokeflyer, we don't have a union(otherwise, it would be it's fault). that's supposed to be a joke for all you humour-challenged folks.
WL

PS, yea, I know it's coming blah blah blah.

 

[brokeflyer]

you're not too bright are you. Think about it some more.

 

[jetmaster727]

For Bunman and Jetmaster, the 2 checkrides given each year are ALMOST 100% driven by FAA requirements for these checkrides ie 2 precision and 2 non-precision approaches, single-enginge approach, etc. It is spelled out in FAA documents. If someone goes into the training center and wants nothing but practice on, say V1 cuts, I imagine the instructors would accommodate this wish as long as the student realized that his 2nd ride would be the normal checkride (and without the benefit of having practiced anything other than the V1 cuts that he(she) requested. The only manuever I am aware of that is not FAA-driven is the raw date approach, which is DO driven. And if Mr. Jetmaster727 is so afraid of flying the plane without a FD, he probably should try another profession...these FD's do fail occasionally, and having practiced in the Sim for such an event is the exact training I would want to have practiced.
WL

If not FAA required then why do it? This is the problem with you guys; when someone makes a valid point you get all defensive and attack the person. I'm
hardly afraid of flying without the FD as I have been doing this for a long time. I mean according to your logic, we should shut down both engines because it could happen, right?
I would seriously question the judgement of a captain who continues to an airport on one engine with the weather at mins and no FD. But what do I know, I've only been flying transport cat airplanes for over 20 years!