UAX Letter to UAL Pilots over jumpseat dispute.

[Browntothebone]

Agreed. That seat belongs to the Captain. Look people, this shouldn't be a big problem. The gate agent and her computer system don't own your jumpseat; you do. If the computer system isn't prioritizing the way you'd like, then you prioritize yourself per your FOM's guidance. I sure as hell didn't need a computer program to tell me who was riding on my jumpseat. If a UAL and a UAX pilot both show up for a UAX jumpseat, the computer may give the UAL guy priority, but you have the final decision as to who rides. You don't need the software to agree with you.

But the gate agent owns the jumpseat pass and owns the door to the jetway.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Frankl, I'm not too concerned about what big ol' UAL is going to do. Like others have said/written, I can get from coast to coast on any UAX carrier. Let's see how easy it is for a UAL guy to get out of many of the small markets served only by UAX carriers starting August 1.

GD UAL MEC has been the problem the entire time here, and it's time he fixes it, or starts eating some of the crap he's been shoveling.

Welcome back....Now duck......:beer:

 

[Speedtape]

Nope. The smart captain will continue to allow UAL pilots to jumpseat while passing this letter out to each jumpseater.

Nobody was told to deny anyone the jumpseat. Sorry if you read it that way.

The letter is asking for a simple fix. It's up to UAL MEC to fix it or leave it broken.

Hope that helps.

Why would the UAL MEC want to fix a system that works to their advantage? Diplomacy should always be the first step. That is what this letter is attempting to establish. However, there is an established deadline should the other parties not obtain a just and fair remedy. APA and WN can and have dictated in the past a just and fair RECIPROCAL policy that they need in oder to play ball. Why is this any different? What is viewed as undiplomatic in this letter? The letter, as well as the request, seem nothing but reasonable. The ball is in the UAL pilot's court.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Why would the UAL MEC want to fix a system that works to their advantage? Diplomacy should always be the first step. That is what this letter is attempting to establish. However, there is an established deadline should the other parties not obtain a just and fair remedy. APA and WN can and have dictated in the past a just and fair RECIPROCAL policy that they need in oder to play ball. Why is this any different? What is viewed as undiplomatic in this letter? The letter, as well as the request, seem nothing but reasonable.

I agree Speedtape.....The part that is being viewed as "undiplomatic" is the fact that "regional" pilots are standing up to the "mainline" pilots....That isn't the way we regional pilots are supposed to act.....We are supposed to grovel and beg for table scraps.....

There is a double standard......

 

[ArcticFlier]

But the gate agent owns the jumpseat pass and owns the door to the jetway.

Not if I'm standing at the gate watching the boarding process..........which I've done for the better part of 6 months now when I know there may be a jumpseater.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Welcome back....

Sorta like a train wreck........gotta watch once in awhile.

Now duck......:beer:

Done........

 

[Speedtape]

I agree Speedtape.....The part that is being viewed as "undiplomatic" is the fact that "regional" pilots are standing up to the "mainline" pilots....That isn't the way we regional pilots are supposed to act.....We are supposed to grovel and beg for table scraps.....

There is a double standard......

Are you trying to say that we are being viewed as UPPITY? Hopefully, good people with cool heads on both sides will simply see this as what it is--a diplomatic approach to obtain a fair and reasonable agreement. Otherwise, the advantaged party is no different than the various managements that we all deal with. The process and outcome should prove interesting.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Are you trying to say that we are being viewed as UPPITY? Hopefully, good people with cool heads on both sides will simply see this as what it is--a diplomatic approach to obtain a fair and reasonable agreement. Otherwise, the advantaged party is no different than the various managements that we all deal with. The process and outcome should prove interesting.

Indeed!

 

[Speedtape]

But the gate agent owns the jumpseat pass and owns the door to the jetway.

Yes, that is the prevailing reality at a few carriers. The Captain owns nothing. The Jumpseat belongs to the FAA, then the company through efforts by ALPA years ago. Only at a few companies do pilots have any say so as to who actually gets on the Jumpseat. However, at all times, the Captain can refuse to let someone actually sit on the Jumpseat--but with some consequences and/or justification required by some companies.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Yes, that is the prevailing reality at a few carriers. The Captain owns nothing. The Jumpseat belongs to the FAA, then the company through efforts by ALPA years ago. Only at a few companies do pilots have any say so as to who actually gets on the Jumpseat. However, at all times, the Captain can refuse to let someone actually sit on the Jumpseat--but with some consequences and/or justification required by some companies.

Or I can set the brake until policy is followed. I have no problem explaining that to my Chief Pilot. I'm expected to follow policy. Why should that not be expected of others?

 

[BOX OFFICE]

If you pass out that letter, prepare for war. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine from UAL. His response was, shall we say, not friendly towards UAX. Most rank-and-file UAL pilots will probably support you if you go about this the right way. If you hand out threatening letters, they'll go on the offense and tear you to shreds.



You must not have read the letter that you plan on handing out. From the letter:

"UAX pilots will be left with no other choice but to deny all UAL pilots any requests for the jumpseat, regardless of aircraft tail-colors beginning 07/31/08"

Threats aren't a great way to fix problems.

Oh my, time for a reality check. PCL, the quintessential know nothing big mouth of this group, called ONE FRIEND AT UAL and from that has determined that the UAL pilots will "shred" the UAX pilots. Everybody get that?

PCL, give it a rest. Nobody cares what you think. And quit acting like the authority on ALPA just because you were a rep at Pinnacle for a few years. Cause, you know, Pinnacle is really the "flagship" of ALPA represented pilots with that great contract an all, right?

PCL, this is none of your business. Stay out of it. I for one, am tired of seeing you inject your opinion of how ALPA pilots are saving the world into every stinking thread. Besides, you're not even an ALPA member anymore!

 

[No.W.]

Double standards FTL.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

This is a colossal mistake. I don't know about most folks but I had no idea that we were drawing a line in the sand. I had heard that the problem existed and that JSCs were working to get it fixed, but there was no hint at this type of escalating confrontation. I can see this potentially getting way out of hand. I use mainline UAL to get to work and have always been treated professionally. I don't see the point in punishing other pilots for something management controls. With regard to UAs MEC being the problem, I'm guessing that they have now and have had for quite some time quite a lot on their plates. Their situation is pretty serious. Not saying they shouldn't help, but I may understand. I'll ask Ua pilots to try to facilitate this change, but I will never advocate the denial of a jumpseat.

Asking will never do anything. Status quo (doing nothing, or its equal continuing to ask nicely) supports the UAL pilots because they currently have the advantage.

The only thing that will move this situation forward is to "motivate" the UAL pilots.

I'm impressed that everyone banded together like this. Even with SAPA. It's refreshing to see. I hope it works, and if not, than too bad for the UAL commuters, because I'll wager that more UAL pilots commute on UAX than commute on mainline.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Agreed. That seat belongs to the Captain. Look people, this shouldn't be a big problem. The gate agent and her computer system don't own your jumpseat; you do. If the computer system isn't prioritizing the way you'd like, then you prioritize yourself per your FOM's guidance. I sure as hell didn't need a computer program to tell me who was riding on my jumpseat. If a UAL and a UAX pilot both show up for a UAX jumpseat, the computer may give the UAL guy priority, but you have the final decision as to who rides. You don't need the software to agree with you.

What part of "the gate determines who gets to talk to the captain" confuses you? You can't just march down to the plane and talk to the captain. Especially in IAD.

As I said, why don't you butt out, PCL? Airtran doesn't even let us ID-90/ZED on them. Why don't we talk about that?

 

[rogerwilcoout]

Well for one thing the "SkyWest Pilots" did not sign this letter. They lack a union and a spine. Besides why are you asking for something to be fixed when its not going to matter anyway when United Disappears.

You are just wasting your time.

Thats the spirit.....just do nothing ! Why did we all overlook that? Man, you could be a democrat.......er.....wait....I bet you are !

 

[Fred Rogers]

United actually tried to force us (Mesa) to give their pilots (UAL Mainline) priority over our own pilots on Mesa planes. We respectfully declined and we were subsequently re prioritized as "L" (Luggage). Some other airlines played but Mesa didn’t. They started this crap so let the fun begin.

Same thing happened at Colgan

 

[PCL_128]

But the gate agent owns the jumpseat pass and owns the door to the jetway.

There's a simple solution to this problem: "this airplane isn't moving until the proper jumpseater is onboard. I can sit here all day. What's it going to be?" Gate agent will back down every time.

 

[PCL_128]

Airtran doesn't even let us ID-90/ZED on them. Why don't we talk about that?

Which airline do you work for? We have pass agreements with many airlines. Unfortunately, some airlines refuse to work with us on reciprocal pass privileges. For instance, DAL refuses to offer us domestic pass benefits because we're the "competition." Their employees suffer as a result, but DAL management doesn't seem to care. If pass benefits aren't available, you can bet it's because your carrier won't allow it, not the other way around.

 

[Fred Rogers]

There's a simple solution to this problem: "this airplane isn't moving until the proper jumpseater is onboard. I can sit here all day. What's it going to be?" Gate agent will back down every time.

And your phone melts from messages from the Chief Pilot. PCL, you really need to pull your head out of your @$$. I don't mean to put you down because I hate the whining on here but seriously man. You don't even have a dog in the fight but you continue to cheer for old school ALPA. Does it occur to you that the reason no one likes ALPA is because they always cuddle with these angry old legacy carriers - screw everyone else?????


The UAX carriers should be able to dictate who has priority on the jumpseat. End of story.


Box Office - Still have a crush on you

 

[Future Furlough]

There's a simple solution to this problem: "this airplane isn't moving until the proper jumpseater is onboard. I can sit here all day. What's it going to be?" Gate agent will back down every time.

Assuming you know there is more than one jumpseater standing at the top of the jetway. And before you spout off...no one has time to police the gate agent on a 25 minute turn.