UAX Letter to UAL Pilots over jumpseat dispute.

[bender]

Let's see, the UAL JSC threatens UEX to change their jumpseat priority and this is seen as a professional request, and yet the UEX threat to protect their own jumpseats for their own people is seen as immature. Double standards all around for the UAL JSC!

 

[Fly2AK]

That's really the only logical answer to this situation. Just fix the glitch. How hard can it be.

If it's so easy then why don't one of you boys step up and solve the problem? Do you really think starting a war with the UAL pilots will leave UAX pilots unscathed? The situation sucks but threats to the UAL pilots is going to do nothing more than piss them off, we have our own issue's we are trying to deal with. If we could snap our fingers and things were fixed then we would be living a great life.

 

[CFIT]

That's really the only logical answer to this situation. Just fix the glitch. How hard can it be.

If it's so easy then why don't one of you boys step up and solve the problem? Do you really think starting a war with the UAL pilots will leave UAX pilots unscathed? The situation sucks but threats to the UAL pilots is going to do nothing more than piss them off, we have our own issue's we are trying to deal with. If we could snap our fingers and things were fixed then we would be living a great life.

The software has been changed 4 times that I'm aware of and keeps getting worse. The UAL MEC has been asking for super priority since I was a rep 4 years ago, so they back doored it through the software.

This will all go away as soon as pilots have the first seat on their own metal.

You can tap dance all you want, but really is that simple.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Let's see, the UAL JSC threatens UEX to change their jumpseat priority and this is seen as a professional request, and yet the UEX threat to protect their own jumpseats for their own people is seen as immature. Double standards all around for the UAL JSC!

There is always a double standard when dealing with mainline/regional issues....The mainline is supposed to be the master....and now the apprentice is starting to question the master....Master isn't too happy....Too bad.....so sad.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

If it's so easy then why don't one of you boys step up and solve the problem? Do you really think starting a war with the UAL pilots will leave UAX pilots unscathed? The situation sucks but threats to the UAL pilots is going to do nothing more than piss them off, we have our own issue's we are trying to deal with. If we could snap our fingers and things were fixed then we would be living a great life.

If mainline pilots didn't feel like they owned the seats.....this wouldn't be a problem...Obviously the computer has been changed several times.....Change it to the right priority and this will go away...Everyone will lose....but I suspect more mainline folks commute on UAX then the other way around....

 

[Fred Rogers]

Can someone produce this letter with actual signatures? Just because some SKW pilot wrote it and put some other airline names on the bottom doesn't mean that each respective MEC signed off on it.

I know that the other MEC's had input on it and signed off on it.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Bingo...we're talking about something in the ballpark of 50 lines of programming code in the UAL reservations system. For any experienced programmer...that would take all of 20 minutes to make the changes.

I understand the need to save money in the current economic environment...but paying a programmer from IT for an hour of overtime to fix the way the system sorts jumpseater priority isn't going to break the bank.

I think this is absolutely true. I don't know much about the computer system, but it obviously benifets UA Mainline pilots in its current state. Doesn't seem like much of a stretch to think that they would be dragging their feet to do anything about it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Karaoke performance by UAL pilots to UAX pilots: A dedication.....

Give me time
To realise my crime
Let me love and steal
I have danced inside your eyes
How can I be real

Do you really want to hurt me
Do you really want to make me cry

Precious kisses
Words that burn me
Lovers never ask you why
In my heart the fire's burning
Choose my colour
Find a star
Precious people always tell me
That's a step
A step too far

Chorus:
Do you really want to hurt me
Do you really want to make me cry
Do you really want to hurt me
Do you really want to make me cry

Words are few
I have spoken
I could waste a thousand years
Wrapped in sorrow Words are token
Come inside and catch my tears
You've been talking but believe me
If its true You do not know
This boy loves without a reason
I'm prepared to let you go
If it's love you want from me
Then take it away
Everything is not what you see
It's over AGAIN

 

[Fly2AK]

If mainline pilots didn't feel like they owned the seats.....this wouldn't be a problem...Obviously the computer has been changed several times.....Change it to the right priority and this will go away...Everyone will lose....but I suspect more mainline folks commute on UAX then the other way around....

I doubt there will be more mainline pilots losing out on this battle, the battle you all have chosen. I was an express guy, and from what I remember a lot of guys were left behind do to weight restrictions and I always counted on the mainline jumpseat more than express and this was 6 years worth of commuting. If you want to shake your sabers in the air saying we will conquer UAL pilots, then by all means go ahead. However like I stated before, a pilot has the right to his own jumpseat before others, if the computer system is screwed up, then get off your lazy ass and go out and be known to the gate agent, ensure the right guy gets the seat. I did it when I was at express. Besides aren't they express gate agents working your flights? and shouldn't they know the priority on express flights? As a commuter the hardest part of commuting and trying to jumpseat was dealing with the gate agent. Every pilot I have ever dealt with was very accomadating and I don't know anyone that would purposely take a jumpseat that belonged to another pilot. Get up and go up to the gate and provide oversight on the whole process or are you really that lazy that you would jepordize the whole jumpseat priviledge? If so best of luck to you all. I remember after 9/11 when no one could jumpseat except on their own colors, it sucked. I think there are better ways to educate the UAL pilots on this matter rather than threaten us all as a whole, personally it pisses me off. Not one of your jumpseaters have ever stated there was a problem with the system.

 

[Freeze_gopher]

Fly2AK,

This is the problem, we didn't choose this fight. I was (as were all of the guys I've spoken to) stunned at the existence let alone the content of this letter. I was aware of the issue, but like most guys I'd think, thought that discussions were on going. The escalating confrontation that has emerged was a complete shock. We were not consulted. I have always been treated with professionalism by UAL crews and must say that I have had great conversations with those crews.
The idea of bumping heads over what is really a non issue escapes me. I have no problem with UALMECs' request for priority. Even if I didn't I can't advocate the denial of jumpseats. It just makes no sense.

 

[Fly2AK]

Fly2AK,

This is the problem, we didn't choose this fight. I was (as were all of the guys I've spoken to) stunned at the existence let alone the content of this letter. I was aware of the issue, but like most guys I'd think, thought that discussions were on going. The escalating confrontation that has emerged was a complete shock. We were not consulted. I have always been treated with professionalism by UAL crews and must say that I have had great conversations with those crews.
The idea of bumping heads over what is really a non issue escapes me. I have no problem with UALMECs' request for priority. Even if I didn't I can't advocate the denial of jumpseats. It just makes no sense.

Thanks for your comments. I just see this tearing a deeper divide between all pilots, something we don't need in todays day and age of aviation.

 

[Caspian27]

Fly2AK,

Say you're doing a quick-turn through ORD and you're parked at F1C. That's the farthest one that you can walk to outside, you know, almost to the eagle gates. You don't have time to walk up to the gate. It's literally like a football field's length away. Even if you did have time, UA mainline works the gate for Express in Chicago and they can be very hard to deal with on these issues. If their computer tells them something, they believe it more than they believe you. Believe me.

 

[dispatchguy]

Fly2AK,

Say you're doing a quick-turn through ORD and you're parked at F1C. That's the farthest one that you can walk to outside, you know, almost to the eagle gates. You don't have time to walk up to the gate. It's literally like a football field's length away. Even if you did have time, UA mainline works the gate for Express in Chicago and they can be very hard to deal with on these issues. If their computer tells them something, they believe it more than they believe you. Believe me.

Truer words havent been spoken. Especially at the deplorable cluster ************************* which is Concourse F at ORD.

 

[jetfueljunkey]

Well for one thing the "SkyWest Pilots" did not sign this letter. They lack a union and a spine. Besides why are you asking for something to be fixed when its not going to matter anyway when United Disappears.

You are just wasting your time.

ACTUALLY LETTER WAS WRITTEN BY A SKYWEST PILOT

 

[Speedtape]

At the rate things are going at UAL and the economy, in the end, it probably want matter. However, until that day, fight for jumpseat equity!

It's time the little people make their voices heard!

 

[Formula 1]

ACTUALLY LETTER WAS WRITTEN BY A SKYWEST PILOT

Who was it then?

 

[bmpilot2003]

Who was it then?

You're not on a need to know basis anymore because you do not work at SkyWest. It was written by Skywest pilot.

 

[ArcticFlier]

You're not on a need to know basis anymore because you do not work at SkyWest. It was written by Skywest pilot.

..........in conjunction with, and with the help of the JSC's at several other airlines.

The solution is simple. The UAL guys/gals need to get off their asses and email/write the MEC and get this changed. Simple as that .........and it's cost neutral. They already pay their IT guys......this will cost nothing. The UAL MEC has his head up his ass. Period.

 

[ultrarunner]

The funniest thing about this entire thread, is that there is a UAL IT computer geek out there that has already written the code, and tested it at home and is ready to implement it. But no one has asked him to do it.

So he's just hanging out, drinking beer, and laughing his a$$ off at all these posts because HE has already FIXED it!

I'm telling ya...it's true!

Ahh...the power of the geeks. Heck, I'd prly sit back and watch too....

 

[Formula 1]

You're not on a need to know basis anymore because you do not work at SkyWest. It was written by Skywest pilot.

You can tell me, but you have to kill me? No SkyWest pilot had the balls to write that letter. You are not fooling anyone.

 

[ArcticFlier]

You can tell me, but you have to kill me? No SkyWest pilot had the balls to write that letter. You are not fooling anyone.

Let it be known:

Whereas: I know the guy personally

Whereas: He is a SKYW pilot

Whereas: He co-wrote it..........as did the JSC from the aforementioned airlines (team effort)

Whereas: Putting his name out here does nothing. UAL's MEC knows who he, and the others are.

Whereas: You're talkin outta your ass

 

[ATR Pirate]

I'm not sure the Jumpseat Denial program is the best idea. I mean, United pilots didn't pick the way the system is. But this is what it has come down to, how else do you get your point across? All of the UAX airlines have been begging and negotiation with United for over 9 months now on this issue. I'm a Skywest commuter on the UAX side of operations..and I thought whomever wrote that letter had a pretty large pair to lay it down like that. I wish there were a better way though..

 

[Freeze_gopher]

UAX pilots still should've been notified about the letter and what it said. The information campaign and a request for help are good ideas. Those good ideas are lost in the ultimatum that ends the letter. Frustration is not a good reason to start a fight. We should have been consulted prior to the release of the letter. I'll inform and ask for help, but I won't deny jumpseats.

 

[avrorj-85]

Deleted...

 

[B314Clipper]

Not a new problem

This has been going on for years. When ACA was still around we had to fight with UA to make sure our guys got on our flights. ORF was especially bad. They got mad because UA cut back the flying and replaced mainline with RJs. Not the ACA pilots fault.
The other problem was the number of jumpseaters allowed. ACA/Indy (and a lot of other LLCs) used to take as many jumpseaters as we had empty seats in the back regardless of airline. We also allowed the seat in the cockpit until 9/11 changed that. And when we had airbuses, we even let pilots ride on the FA jumpseat. We flew a lot of United guys when we were still UEX. Almost never failed that they would thank us for the ride and say that they wished that UA had the same policy. I commuted for four years and saw more than a few UA planes leave the gate with empty seats in the back because they had taken their ONE jumpseater.
I agree that you'll never win a jumpseat war, but why shouldn't the airline's own pilots have priority on their own plane?

 

[Speedtape]

This has been going on for years. When ACA was still around we had to fight with UA to make sure our guys got on our flights. ORF was especially bad. They got mad because UA cut back the flying and replaced mainline with RJs. Not the ACA pilots fault.
The other problem was the number of jumpseaters allowed. ACA/Indy (and a lot of other LLCs) used to take as many jumpseaters as we had empty seats in the back regardless of airline. We also allowed the seat in the cockpit until 9/11 changed that. And when we had airbuses, we even let pilots ride on the FA jumpseat. We flew a lot of United guys when we were still UEX. Almost never failed that they would thank us for the ride and say that they wished that UA had the same policy. I commuted for four years and saw more than a few UA planes leave the gate with empty seats in the back because they had taken their ONE jumpseater.
I agree that you'll never win a jumpseat war, but why shouldn't the airline's own pilots have priority on their own plane?

There is an injustice, therefore, there is the letter. Rosa Parks and her actions, all by herself, righted an injustice! Nothing will change without action.

It appears that the UAL pilots benefit under the convolution that exists. Maybe the convolution is by design and scheme. Sometimes, things have to reach a crisis, before there is resolution!

Take a stand, or take a seat--in the gate after the plane has left! Fight for what's right! Don't be bullied or be afraid to stand up!

Had John Hancock and others been afraid to stand up and not sign their name to the Declaration of Independence, an action that was a potential death sentence, we would all still be slaves and governed by the British Throne! Fish and Chips anyone?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Had John Hancock and others been afraid to stand up and not sign their name to the Declaration of Independence, an action that was a potential death sentence, we would all still be slaves and governed by the British Throne! Fish and Chips anyone?

Easy with your Rosa Parks civil disobedience talk.... Are you willing to NOT "ride the bus" as the black community did. What does that mean? Refusing to fly? You gonna do a sick out to get the jumpseat?

Hancock, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, et all, knew they commiting treason to the British Crown, and if unsuccessful they'd hang.


So... what are you really saying?

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is an injustice, therefore, there is the letter. Rosa Parks and her actions, all by herself, righted an injustice! Nothing will change without action.

It appears that the UAL pilots benefit under the convolution that exists. Maybe the convolution is by design and scheme. Sometimes, things have to reach a crisis, before there is resolution!

Take a stand, or take a seat--in the gate after the plane has left! Fight for what's right! Don't be bullied or be afraid to stand up!

Had John Hancock and others been afraid to stand up and not sign their name to the Declaration of Independence, an action that was a potential death sentence, we would all still be slaves and governed by the British Throne! Fish and Chips anyone?

Couldn't have said it better....What caused this change? I am hearing a lot of one time ALPA cheerleaders start to change their tune a little...

This unified defense of the UAX jumpseat was accomplished by a group of non-union, ALPA, and Teamsters pilots....without ALPA...I've never seen something so bold from ALPA...

We need more of this type unification....not less....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Easy with your Rosa Parks civil disobedience talk.... Are you willing to NOT "ride the bus" as the black community did. What does that mean? Refusing to fly? You gonna do a sick out to get the jumpseat?

Hancock, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, et all, knew they commiting treason to the British Crown, and if unsuccessful they'd hang.


So... what are you really saying?

Many are saying the double standard within ALPA/profession of regional pilots being "owned" by the mainline is going to end....Many are willing to cause some civil disobedience to stop this injustice....There will be pain.....But the mainline MECs and ALPA need to realize that the status quo is not acceptable....ALPA doesn't really need to start more fires....They are thin ice as it stands...

One has to wonder if there is any true leadership in ALPA....or are they all like you and PCL128?

 

[SaturnPilot]

We need more of this type unification....not less....

I agree it's nice to see regional carriers bind together for a purpose, but I'm afraid the ultimatum in this letter will serve to drive a further wedge between major and regional pilots. Lets hope that's not the case.