UAX Letter to UAL Pilots over jumpseat dispute.

[Formula 1]

Thats the spirit.....just do nothing ! Why did we all overlook that? Man, you could be a democrat.......er.....wait....I bet you are !

No, I just stating a fact. I did something about it. I got $10K donated from ALPA to have the Wilson Center conduct a professional poll of the SkyWest pilot group and no one wanted to take it. I even donated my time, wrote letters, spent over $3,000, and called pilots to ask for thier support to form an in house union. The data we collected was that the SkyWest pilot group can't decide on anything and are divided on everything. So I know for a fact the SkyWest pilots did not sign this silly letter.

Best of luck.

 

[Nevets]

So I know for a fact the SkyWest pilots did not sign this silly letter.

Can someone produce this letter with actual signatures? Just because some SKW pilot wrote it and put some other airline names on the bottom doesn't mean that each respective MEC signed off on it.

 

[ROSWELL41]

First off, this problem does need to get fixed in the computer.

Thats about all I agree with. The method chosen by the SkyWest jumpseat coordinator is embarassing and opens our pilots up to retribution in the form of jumpseat denials. Threatening the largest ALPA MEC with a jumpseat war is nothing more than bully tactics. I am surprised that SkyWest management even allowed this memo to go out. As a contract carrier, is it worth jeopardizing your relationship with UAL over this?

 

[Flyerdan]

First off, this problem does need to get fixed in the computer.

Thats about all I agree with. The method chosen by the SkyWest jumpseat coordinator is embarassing and opens our pilots up to retribution in the form of jumpseat denials. Threatening the largest ALPA MEC with a jumpseat war is nothing more than bully tactics. I am surprised that SkyWest management even allowed this memo to go out. As a contract carrier, is it worth jeopardizing your relationship with UAL over this?

I think the point is that the changes made to the computer program that assigns jumpseat priority amounted to a breach in the jumpseat agreement. As contract carriers, I think that the UAX management needs to be seen as serious people who won't roll over and expect their agreements to be honored and enforced.

 

[bmpilot2003]

First off, this problem does need to get fixed in the computer.

Thats about all I agree with. The method chosen by the SkyWest jumpseat coordinator is embarassing and opens our pilots up to retribution in the form of jumpseat denials. Threatening the largest ALPA MEC with a jumpseat war is nothing more than bully tactics. I am surprised that SkyWest management even allowed this memo to go out. As a contract carrier, is it worth jeopardizing your relationship with UAL over this?

SkyWest has won jumpseats disputes with United in the past. Using similar tactics.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

There's a simple solution to this problem: "this airplane isn't moving until the proper jumpseater is onboard. I can sit here all day. What's it going to be?" Gate agent will back down every time.

And your Captain will let you say that? You are just a PFT biatch, now shut up and get that manifest done, quickly!
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

First off, this problem does need to get fixed in the computer.

Thats about all I agree with. The method chosen by the SkyWest jumpseat coordinator is embarassing and opens our pilots up to retribution in the form of jumpseat denials. Threatening the largest ALPA MEC with a jumpseat war is nothing more than bully tactics. I am surprised that SkyWest management even allowed this memo to go out. As a contract carrier, is it worth jeopardizing your relationship with UAL over this?

Sweet,
Little ole' non-union SKYW, bullying the largest ALPA mec.
Kinda makes you go hmmmm....
PBR

 

[Formula 1]

The Letter is Invalid Thanks To SkyWest

Here is the problem,

United has bigger problems then some kind of silly jumpseat war from the regional pilots. They need to make payroll, buy fuel, sell tickets, retire old aircraft, refine the schedule, and Oh, I forgot, repaint the TED airplanes.

All this letter is going to do is piss off a already pissed off United pilot who is going to get furloughed anyway and has nothing to lose. He has been watching the cocky regional pilots take their flying away, so he is going to write a pass to ride on your airplane for free and deny every regional pilot the jumpseat.

Now suddenly a bunch of SkyWest pilots fail to show up to work. A SkyWest Assistant Chief Pilot wants to know why so he calls in the SAPA Jumpseat Representative for an answer. But wait it gets better, some Kool-Aid Drinker 300 hour CFI SkyWest pilot try to score points brings in a copy of the letter they copied off of FightInfo and its is signed by the SkyWest Pilots.

The SAPA Rep can answer only 3 different ways but they all come to the same conclusion.

Possible answer 1: I have know nothing about this letter. They just put us (SkyWest) on it without asking.

Possible answer 2: Yes I talked with the other jumseat cordinators about this issue, but I didn't agree to it.

Or possible answer 3: Yes I went to the meeting and it made me angry as hell and I signed the letter.


Remember there is only one out come.

For Answer 1: Chief Pilot says, "we need you to sign this letter we have written on you behalf by legal to refute this letter.

For Answers 2: Chief Pilot says, "who did you talk to, becuase I am going to call thier Chief Pilot and tell them about this. We need you to sign this letter stating that your words were miss understood and you don't agree to this letter. You will also sign this letter resigning as a SAPA representative effective imediately.

And Finally Answer 3: The Chief Pilots Says, "What the Fu*& were you thinking? If you want to kept your job here you will sign this letter stating that its just a big missunderstanding and you did not understand what you were signing. You will resign from SAPA and you are on suspension untill further notice of review of your past performances.

All three have the same conclusion. SkyWest will deny all involement with this letter. The card house will start to crumble and the jumpseat issue will never get resolved.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

There are a few Skywest pilots here that think that because of their size that the world owes them something, and that their feces doth not stinketh.

Whatever.

Here's what I see, SkyWest pilots - There are no "pilots" who have any authority to sign anything. You are right, "Skywest pilots" couldn't have signed that letter, because there really IS no "skywest" voice. Which is fine. I do not mean to bring a Union fight into this. Your pilot group has voted down ALPA what, twice? 3 times? I don't really care, but your pilot group spoke. Noted.

That does not address the issue of THIS thread, so quit HIJACKING it for your little egocentric own agenda that no one really cares about.

The bottom line is this - what's going on with the UAL pilots wanting priority jump seating on a UAX plane is WRONG.

Here's my question - Has any UAX pilot seen a UAL pilot try to TAKE the jumpseat from a pilot who works for the UAX carrier he's trying to jump on? My guess is no, or, if it happens, the flight crew knew nothing about it.

As Captain, I will make sure that no company pilot gets bumped for a UAL pilot on my plane, but I will not be denying UAL pilots if the seat is available for them, either.

At this critical time, it does UAL no good to get into a jumpseat war with its UAX carriers, and there are going to be a lot of line pilots who were enjoying more days off and less days worked that will be reversing that, and guys holding lines who will now find themselves sitting on reserve. Crashpad time again. The jumpseats on the UAX carriers will be very valuable to all of them. They need to respect the UAX pilots with equal respect that the UAX pilots give them. They are not asking for anything extraordinary, only what is fair.

So. SkyWest pilots put a sock in it regarding "who" signed the letter. "who" cares. You're an UAX carrier. You should be standing with the other UAX carriers anyway, as this concerns your pilots too. It's your own fault you don't have a true "voice" of someone who could have signed it and is NOT part of this discussion.



PS - I also used to work for 9E. If anyone knows who this PCL guy is I'd like to hear about it. He seems to have an opinion on everything. I could probably narrow it down to a dozen guys to choose from. ;-)

 

[WalterSobchak]

Oh my, time for a reality check. PCL, the quintessential know nothing big mouth of this group, called ONE FRIEND AT UAL and from that has determined that the UAL pilots will "shred" the UAX pilots. Everybody get that?

PCL, give it a rest. Nobody cares what you think. And quit acting like the authority on ALPA just because you were a rep at Pinnacle for a few years. Cause, you know, Pinnacle is really the "flagship" of ALPA represented pilots with that great contract an all, right?

PCL, this is none of your business. Stay out of it. I for one, am tired of seeing you inject your opinion of how ALPA pilots are saving the world into every stinking thread. Besides, you're not even an ALPA member anymore!

BoxOffice is now on my hero pilot list. Now off to YouTube to find that "Box in a Box" video...

 

[Ski Bum]

A few thoughts from a SKYW Pilot.

1. Skywest pilots knew nothing of this letter until it was "sprung" on us that this is "our" plan of attack. Guess what...this is not "our" plan, but the jumpseat guy's plan. Skywest pilots didn't sign the letter and because we are not unified (union or not doesn't matter)...we are not UNIFIED... this will fail miserably. Some pilots will deny, others won't.

2. This is just a bluff by some inexperienced MEC's. They do not realize the REAL trouble that UAL is going through and the UAX MEC's think this issue has the same weight as people losing their jobs and not having enough money to pay the bills. This is an important issue, but not to a pilot group that has seen the devastation that UAL has.

3. Speaking of paying the bills...let no regional forget who pays theirs...it is the majors. As much as we "want" to be a real airline, we aren't. Independence and ExpressJet have proven how hard it is to live in the real world. Our paychecks might have the name of our companies on them, but if it weren't for the majors, we wouldn't get paychecks.

4. Not all UAX carriers signed this policy...take a look.

5. We need to get back to the Captain having some authority. A few years back you had to go down and get the PIC's signature on your jumpset card prior to getting on the aircraft. If there were 8 jumpseaters all of you had to get the captain to sign the card and decide who would get on the flight or not.

6. A jumpseat action is a no win situation.

 

[XPOO]

Sorry, I wasn't being belligerent. I wasn't speaking to your ability to jumpseat. I was speaking to your posting on matters dealing purely about pilot union matters. Anyways, I posted on here because if its a problem of one ALPA pilot, then its a problem for all ALPA pilots. But you wouldn't know about that, right?

Oh really? This is a UNION pilot matter only?

Anymore asinine statements you would like to make?

 

[bmpilot2003]

Bump!

 

[Nevets]

Oh really? This is a UNION pilot matter only?

Anymore asinine statements you would like to make?

I was talking about this asinine statement you made:

So you admit that SkyWest management is doing what every airline management team should do, and uphold the rights of their pilots? And at one heck of a savings, too. Didn't even cost the SkyWest pilot's 1.95% of their earnings and 401(k) to get it done.

Talk about being belligerent.

 

[XPOO]

I was talking about this asinine statement you made:



Talk about being belligerent.

You must suffer from selective post reading disorder. It's ok though, I probably should have selected not to read any of Formula's posts either.

 

[ROSWELL41]

After reading the UAL MEC response to this silly letter, it seems that SAPA and Co have picked a fight they may not be able to win.

 

[PCL_128]

After reading the UAL MEC response to this silly letter, it seems that SAPA and Co have picked a fight they may not be able to win.

Care to post the UAL MEC's response? Haven't seen it anywhere yet.

 

[BoilerUP]

Care to post the UAL MEC's response? Haven't seen it anywhere yet.

This one was on APC...

MEC Jumpseat Comm. Reminder on UAX Carrier Jumpseat Situation

MEC Jumpseat Committee Chairman Captain Bob Spadea would like to advise all United pilots that commute on our UAX carriers that you may be receiving a letter from the respective carrier's Jumpseat Committee the next time you request a jumpseat from the captain. In summary, this letter issues an ultimatum to the UALMEC and the Jumpseat Committee to resolve several jumpseat issues pertaining to computer programming software that sorts UAX pilots for jumpseats on UAX flights. According to the letter, if these problems are not resolved by July 31, 2008, jumpseats will be DENIED to United pilots.

The aforementioned problems have been identified and cannot be easily resolved due to the magnitude of the UAX operation. Some of these issues require software rewrites, manpower assignments and additional funding. In a series of face-to-face meetings between your Jumpseat Committee and the UAX jumpseat members, the parties were made fully aware of the complexity of these problems. They were also made aware of the limited resources, limited manpower and funds needed to correct these problems.

Your Jumpseat Committee is working with UA flight operations and UA management to inquire as to what alternatives can be implemented in resolving these problems. Keep in mind that we will not allow any carrier to use the jumpseat as a bargaining chip or leverage in meeting demands or forcing policies. In issuing this ultimatum to our MEC, these UAX carriers are 100% responsible for any consequences that may result from their course of action.

The UALMEC Jumpseat Committee will update you as appropriate.

 

[PCL_128]

A very professional, yet very clear, response from the UAL MEC. The UAX pilots are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[samballs]

HAHA!

I Like this Bob guy, he is basically saying on the 31st if the UAX carriers think they can fight us, lets kick their butts. UAL MEC will win this battle and just make things harder for you guys. I don't think this was the right way to go about this, maybe in good times, but right now the UAL pilots hate each and everyone of you UAX pilots, except when he needs to sit up front.

 

[Flyerdan]

HAHA!

I Like this Bob guy, he is basically saying on the 31st if the UAX carriers think they can fight us, lets kick their butts. UAL MEC will win this battle and just make things harder for you guys. I don't think this was the right way to go about this, maybe in good times, but right now the UAL pilots hate each and everyone of you UAX pilots, except when he needs to sit up front.

Interesting situation here. Our JSC/SAPA rep sent us an email/history lesson of this issue this morning (and asked that none of us post it anywhere). It included a letter from the UAL JSC that pretty much discredits their current position. In fact, it exposes the information their MEC just released to their pilots as a bold faced lie.

The way this jumpseat issue is shaping up is really pathetic. On the face of it everyone agrees that it's a legitimate complaint by the UAX pilots, but I get the feeling that the UAL side of this thing likes it just the way it is.

It's starting to look like a for real jumpseat war is coming and the timing couldn't be worse for all UAL/UAX pilots.

 

[scangadah]

quote=PCL_128;1620239]No, he didn't, but he immediately got off the phone and told the CA he was flying with. How much you wanna bet that this CA won't be allowing UAX jumpseaters on his airplane anymore? .[/quote]

He won't be denying sh$t if he happens to live in Kalispell, Missoula, Eugene, Aspen or one of a hundred other Sh#t holes that UAX flies into and needs a ride to work. Just ask that senior 747 Capt. that lived in EUG how many times he stood at the gate after hosing a very well liked UAX pilot. This goes both ways. So if any of you Mainline sack lickers think you got UAX guys and gals over a barrel, knock yourselves out and deny them.

If this so called "software" problem denied Mainline pilots the jumpseat instead of giving priority, it would be fixed in about 20 min.

 

[WalterSobchak]

If this so called "software" problem denied Mainline pilots the jumpseat instead of giving priority, it would be fixed in about 20 min.

Bingo...we're talking about something in the ballpark of 50 lines of programming code in the UAL reservations system. For any experienced programmer...that would take all of 20 minutes to make the changes.

I understand the need to save money in the current economic environment...but paying a programmer from IT for an hour of overtime to fix the way the system sorts jumpseater priority isn't going to break the bank.

 

[Nevets]

You must suffer from selective post reading disorder. It's ok though, I probably should have selected not to read any of Formula's posts either.

Of course my response was selective to your two comments made on union pilot issues. After all that is why I even quoted those two posts you made (go back an re read if you need to be reminded of the two original posts of yours I quoted, one of which I requoted on my last post for your convinence). I didn't have any problems with anything else you said in this thread and that is precisely why I didn't quote any of them in my response.

 

[rtmcfi]

A very professional, yet very clear, response from the UAL MEC. The UAX pilots are barking up the wrong tree.

An even more professional response would be get the computer fixed. The UAX pilots should not roll over when their agreements are being trampled. The UAL pilots should honor their agreements.

 

[imacdog]

An even more professional response would be get the computer fixed. The UAX pilots should not roll over when their agreements are being trampled. The UAL pilots should honor their agreements.

That's really the only logical answer to this situation. Just fix the glitch. How hard can it be, or is the UAL MEC admitting they are ineffective in working with the company on compliance issues?

 

[rtmcfi]

Well, seeing how UAL changed priority codes for UAX pilots this spring, I find it difficult to believe that they can't get it changed again. The simple reason it has not been changed yet, is that there has been nothing for United to gain by it. (The knowledge that you are doing the right thing by honoring your agreement doesn't count) The UAX jumpseat folks have been trying to fix this for two years. They have met nothing but resistance from UALPA. The UAX folks are now appealing to the UAL pilots to put pressure on the MEC to right this wrong. The pressure may seem heavy handed, but two years of one sided negotiations are enough. No one wants to deny anyone a ride. The UAX guys simply want the existing agreements to be honored. It is unfortunate that we have arrived at this. Please United pilots, contact your MEC to get this taken care of.

 

[XPOO]

Of course my response was selective to your two comments made on union pilot issues. After all that is why I even quoted those two posts you made (go back an re read if you need to be reminded of the two original posts of yours I quoted, one of which I requoted on my last post for your convinence). I didn't have any problems with anything else you said in this thread and that is precisely why I didn't quote any of them in my response.

Kinda thought I was referencing a non-union pilot group and mangement's decision to back them on what is right. Also, I guess I should have included PAFCA since we are talking about non-union UAX dispatchers standing ground for their jumpseat priorities, too. Better?

 

[Dubya]

About 95% of the United folks I encounter are a miserable lot. No acknowledgement, no smile, no nod, and my last jumpseat request was met with the captain asking to see my license and medical (standard), then my drivers license, passport, and finally with a demented laugh and a look at is FO, "now your birth certificate", at which point I laughed until he continued to look at me like he really wanted me to produce it, at which point I said I don't carry that sorry (with an uncomfortable laugh). He looked at the FO again and said "hmmmmmm..well, what shall we do?"

All in fun and games? Perhaps, but unprofessional and clearly due to underlying anger towards UAX pilots.

You mainline folks dug this RJ hole yourself years ago. Stop looking at me like I am the root cause.

You just hired me to drive the backhoe.

Oh, and to the UA prick captain that walked up to me and asked me why we fly the 700 to 3 hour plus destinations instead of the Airbus or 737....go ask your genius leadership (management AND union) instead of me. I didn't take your bait...and you were clearly ticked.
W

 

[Freeze_gopher]

I will say it again, this is a colossal mistake. Flyerdan, did you not read that letter from UALMEC JSC? The request there is not unreasonable. It is clear and concise, there is no ambiguity in it? Why were we not informed of this proposal? The fault here belongs to us. Considering that my job is being subsidized by UAL why shouldn't their pilots have 2nd tier priority over other pilots. They weren't asking for priority over oo or rah pilots on their own airplanes. We refused their request, Transtates and Gojets complied and they got a higher priority. Is that truly fair?..maybe not, in a perfect world we'd all be K code. But UAL is paying the freight, obviously they are running the show otherwise the problem wouldn't exist. It is their computers, being operated by their employees, in a terminal that they pay for, or paid to have built. Our jobs exist because of UAL, does that mean that we jump every time the shout? Obviously not, but we've turned what was truly an inconvenience into a large problem that will do nothing but foster ill will between employee groups. No matter what we do UAL will get their pilots to work.