UAX Letter to UAL Pilots over jumpseat dispute.

[imacdog]

Unlike regional MECs, mainline MECs work together, my friend.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeah how's that working out for USAir?

 

[PCL_128]

It's not a jumpseat war, its a computer error that needs fixing. But i can go coast to coast on a SkyWest or ASA airplane and never set foot on mainline. Harsh reality.

And guess what? UAL pilots can just call up their company and get UAL to put them positive-space into the system, and your pilots won't be able to do a damned thing to stop them from getting to work. Again, who has the leverage here? Not you. The smart UAX Captains will ignore this letter and allow UAL pilots to continue jumpseating.

 

[doug_or]

If you're at one of the F1 gates at ORD you can't go up and check the gate for jumpseaters on 26 minute turns.

Our J/S coordinator has been working on this for a long time and said the UAL MEC was not interested in fixing the problem.

The reason such desperate measure was that all other options have been exhausted.

And PCL, spare us the snide sticking together crap. Did you see the letter? We ARE sticking together on this.

 

[A-V-8]

What I don't get is this: the gate agent does not decide who rides the jumpseat. The Captain does. If a mainline pilot and a pilot from my own company come up to me to ride the jumpseat, i'm going to put the guy from my company on. Period. If the gate agents aren't letting you down to the aircraft, maybe the captain or FO need to go to the gate and make sure there aren't any other jumpseaters up there.

I agree with you and it only works when you know that there is one of your own guys.


1. Mesa and United guy show up for my JS. I take Mesa. Trouble is that I don’t find out because of these crazy gate agents at the A gates in IAD. The Mesa pilot can’t get outside to protest.

2. My F.A.s gets bumped for mainline F.A.s but I don’t ever find out about it because the brand new flight attendants in IAD don't know to make an issue.

3. CHQ guy shows up 30 prior. UAL mainline shows up 20 prior. CHQ by my GOM goes because he showed up first. I never find out about it because the CHQ guy never gets the details from the agent that bumped him.

The only fair way is to have the computer code each airline in accordance with their own policy and not the blanket policy of UAL mainline aircraft.

Since learning of this issue each time a UAL mainline pilot shows up I head for the gate to look for my guys. I haven’t had an issue yet but as a commuter who has had to fight for a Mesa JS before I am more than willing to go up and take a look.

 

[BoilerUP]

And guess what? UAL pilots can just call up their company and get UAL to put them positive-space into the system, and your pilots won't be able to do a damned thing to stop them from getting to work. Again, who has the leverage here? Not you. The smart UAX Captains will ignore this letter and allow UAL pilots to continue jumpseating.

THERE WILL BE NO JUMPSEAT WAR.

Say it with me again:

THERE WILL BE NO JUMPSEAT WAR.

This letter is posturing, plain and simple. It is going to bring stark and immediate attention to issue at hand and compel UAL ALPA to lean on their management to make the required change to their software. Do you really think these JSCs decided to send this letter out as anything but a last-ditch effort to get changes made?

This entire thread, and the one just like it on APC will have been heightened emotions and mass whining all for naught.

ULTIMATELY THOUGH, responsibility for enforcing proper jumpseat priority lies with each captain. Spend 2 minutes to walk up and check to make sure nobody has been left behind, and if somebody has use the friggin' parking brake until the agent gets it fixed.

USE YOUR HEAD PEOPLE - this sh!t isn't rocket science.

 

[PCL_128]

We ARE sticking together on this.

Yes, I noticed that you're sticking together with the GoJet pilots. Very interesting.

 

[PCL_128]

THERE WILL BE NO JUMPSEAT WAR.

Say it with me again:

THERE WILL BE NO JUMPSEAT WAR.

This letter is posturing, plain and simple. It is going to bring stark and immediate attention to issue at hand and compel UAL ALPA to lean on their management to make the required change to their software. Do you really think these JSCs decided to send this letter out as anything but a last-ditch effort to get changes made?

This entire thread, and the one just like it on APC will have been heightened emotions and mass whining all for naught.

ULTIMATELY THOUGH, responsibility for enforcing proper jumpseat priority lies with each captain. Spend 2 minutes to walk up and check to make sure nobody has been left behind, and if somebody has use the friggin' parking brake until the agent gets it fixed.

USE YOUR HEAD PEOPLE - this sh!t isn't rocket science.

That's one possible outcome. The other possible outcome is that you'll piss off the very militant UAL MEC and incite a huge jumpseat war because they won't be willing to back down to a bunch of "commuter pukes." Don't bluff if you aren't willing to go through with it and suffer the consequences. Very bad politics.

 

[Poahi]

\... Don't bluff if you aren't willing to go through with it and suffer the consequences. Very bad politics.

PCL's absolutely right. NEVER, EVER, EVER make a threat you aren't willing to carry out. The only thing more stupid than turning this in to a Mexican standoff is the whole dispute in the first place. This is classic division strategy right out of the CEO play book and some of you guys are totally falling for it. We have enough problems right now and loads are super high. Please guys, don't make a bad situation worse.

 

[BoilerUP]

That's one possible outcome. The other possible outcome is that you'll piss off the very militant UAL MEC and incite a huge jumpseat war because they won't be willing to back down to a bunch of "commuter pukes."

And that would have DISASTROUS effects for all parties involved, mainline and regional carriers alike.

Don't bluff if you aren't willing to go through with it and suffer the consequences. Very bad politics.

Agreed.

I do think these JSCs are fully ready to close their jumpseats to UAL pilots to compel UAL ALPA to get the issue resolved...whether pilots at their respective companies will be unified enough to stand together and actually enforce such a policy remains to be seen.

How would you tackle this if you were them, PCL?

 

[dispatchguy]

It's not a jumpseat war, its a computer error that needs fixing. But i can go coast to coast on a SkyWest or ASA airplane and never set foot on mainline. Harsh reality.

You can also go coast-coast on the most friendly JS-airline in the biz; SWA...

Hell, I'd rather fly backwards in their club seating then up front of a UA B757 listening to 2 pilots piss and moan about management (not that they dont deserve to be pissed and moaned about), or union crap...

BTDT - will never do that again...

 

[Freeze_gopher]

This is a colossal mistake. I don't know about most folks but I had no idea that we were drawing a line in the sand. I had heard that the problem existed and that JSCs were working to get it fixed, but there was no hint at this type of escalating confrontation. I can see this potentially getting way out of hand. I use mainline UAL to get to work and have always been treated professionally. I don't see the point in punishing other pilots for something management controls. With regard to UAs MEC being the problem, I'm guessing that they have now and have had for quite some time quite a lot on their plates. Their situation is pretty serious. Not saying they shouldn't help, but I may understand. I'll ask Ua pilots to try to facilitate this change, but I will never advocate the denial of a jumpseat.

 

[atlcrashpad]

United actually tried to force us (Mesa) to give their pilots (UAL Mainline) priority over our own pilots on Mesa planes. We respectfully declined and we were subsequently re prioritized as "L" (Luggage). Some other airlines played but Mesa didn’t. They started this crap so let the fun begin.

I'se supprized J.O. didn't sell ya out on dat one.... Kuld hah gottin' sum change in his oily pockets.......
MESA SUX..... an J.O. Blowsssssssssss...
bouyyyyyyyyyyyyy....

 

[PCL_128]

How would you tackle this if you were them, PCL?

My understanding is that all of this has been handled so far between jumpseat committees, and not directly between MECs. That's a great way to start, but if things deteriorate, it's time to bring the big guns (the MEC) in to handle it. These MECs should all request a meeting with Captain Wallach (UAL MEC Chair) to discuss it directly with him. If that doesn't work, then I would suggest bringing someone in from National to mediate the dispute. Not just a committee chair, but a national officer, possibly even Prater. Before you start handing over threatening letters to a huge pilot group with tons of power within ALPA, you should exhaust every possible measure.

 

[Poahi]

So now, I have to go up to the gate and lead the gate agents through the jumpseat procedures? Maybe we should have a system like taping a red piece of paper in the window to let the crew know there is a jumpseater at the gate. This is absurd.

 

[ePilot22]

Your High Horse

The smart UAX Captains will ignore this letter and allow UAL pilots to continue jumpseating.

Nope. The smart captain will continue to allow UAL pilots to jumpseat while passing this letter out to each jumpseater.

Nobody was told to deny anyone the jumpseat. Sorry if you read it that way.

The letter is asking for a simple fix. It's up to UAL MEC to fix it or leave it broken.

Hope that helps.





eP.

 

[bmpilot2003]

And guess what? UAL pilots can just call up their company and get UAL to put them positive-space into the system, and your pilots won't be able to do a damned thing to stop them from getting to work. Again, who has the leverage here? Not you. The smart UAX Captains will ignore this letter and allow UAL pilots to continue jumpseating.

Nice try PFT.. they can't positive space them into the jumpseat. If you United wants to bump a paying pax from our flight so be it . That only hurts United not the named UAX carriers.... fee per departures

 

[PCL_128]

Nope. The smart captain will continue to allow UAL pilots to jumpseat while passing this letter out to each jumpseater.

If you pass out that letter, prepare for war. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine from UAL. His response was, shall we say, not friendly towards UAX. Most rank-and-file UAL pilots will probably support you if you go about this the right way. If you hand out threatening letters, they'll go on the offense and tear you to shreds.

Nobody was told to deny anyone the jumpseat. Sorry if you read it that way.

The letter is asking for a simple fix. It's up to UAL MEC to fix it or leave it broken.

Hope that helps.

You must not have read the letter that you plan on handing out. From the letter:

"UAX pilots will be left with no other choice but to deny all UAL pilots any requests for the jumpseat, regardless of aircraft tail-colors beginning 07/31/08"

Threats aren't a great way to fix problems.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Yes, I noticed that you're sticking together with the GoJet pilots. Very interesting.

PCL when did you figure PFT was wrong? Berfore, during, of after you decided to become an openly GAY ALPA cheerleader.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL when did you figure PFT was wrong? Berfore, during, of after you decided to become an openly GAY ALPA cheerleader.

Ah, an always great indication of maturity and intelligence: call someone "gay." Well done.

 

[bmpilot2003]

My understanding is that all of this has been handled so far between jumpseat committees, and not directly between MECs. That's a great way to start, but if things deteriorate, it's time to bring the big guns (the MEC) in to handle it. These MECs should all request a meeting with Captain Wallach (UAL MEC Chair) to discuss it directly with him. If that doesn't work, then I would suggest bringing someone in from National to mediate the dispute. Not just a committee chair, but a national officer, possibly even Prater. Before you start handing over threatening letters to a huge pilot group with tons of power within ALPA, you should exhaust every possible measure.

Your are WRONG again PFT! The jump seat commitees of all the listed airlines have been working on this for 2 years. They even had direct talks with the UAL MEC and tried to resolve issue. UAL MEC demanded that they have #1 priority on all United operated flights both jumpseating and non-rev. The problems lies with the jump seat and the UAL MEC would not budge.