UAX Letter to UAL Pilots over jumpseat dispute.

[dispatchguy]

substandard wages? Terminate without cause? Funny I used to work at an ALPA carrier; was paid less, treated worse, and firings were a weekly event.

Must've been at Uncle Hulas's work farm...

 

[No.W.]

This is going to be ugly. Unfortunately, it's the only way.

 

[XPOO]

Hypothetical: When there is no ALPA:

1. To which standard will your company match your pay and work rules? The answer could be to the standard of J.O.'s airline!

2. Did you have any say in bringing on PBS? Did you know that the company saved anywhere from 6-12% in labor costs when they forced PBS down your throats? Did you know that most of these savings came out of your pocket? And you are worried about 1.95%! With ALPA, you would have had access to number crunchers who represent you to at least allow you to make financial decisions that affect you!
This is only one of the many things that will affect your pay and work rules over your career. By the way, PBS is considered concessionary! What do you call it and why did you need to make concessions at such a company that only looks out for your best interest?

I'm a dispatcher. So, answer to question number 1. Do SkyWest Dispatchers want to be the highest paid in the regional industry? Sure we do. But are we? Yes, and no. There are a lot of factors to weigh when answering any question like this. However, SADA goes to great lengths to contact every comparable regional dispatch center to compare work rules and rates and negotiate accordingly. We have very good working relationships with the dispatch heads at most comparable regionals and freely exchange information in order to continually "raise the bar."

Number 2. Dispatchers do not use PBS. We have set up our own system of line bidding internally. the rules of which were determined by SADA and approved by management. Was this bidding system something every dispatcher wanted? Probably not, but it does have the backing of the majority of the dispatch office. I am not qualified to talk about PBS and so I will not.

 

[Formula 1]

Being unionized or not has absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand.

Can we get back to the letter?

Yes it dose. The letter is invalid. The SkyWest Pilots did not sign the letter. A SkyWest pilot may have as a SAPA rep with no powers and/or authority. Now because of someone narrowmindedness (SAPA) SkyWest Pilots might get bumbed off of United jumpseats, because of a jumpseat war. SkyWest Pilots have no contract with thier management, but do have a ever changing policy manual that contains no Commuter Protection Policy. Way to go SAPA! What is SAPA going to do for you if you get terminated for a failed commute?

 

[XPOO]

Yes it dose. The letter is invalid. The SkyWest Pilots did not sign the letter. A SkyWest pilot may have as a SAPA rep with no powers and/or authority. Now because of someone narrowmindedness SkyWest Pilots might get bumbed off of United jumpseats in because of a jumpseat war. SkyWest Pilots have no contract with thier management but a ever changing policy manual that contains no Commuter Protection Policy. Way to go SAPA!

SkyWest does about 80% of the UAX flying, and does about 100 less flights a day as UAX than UA does as Mainline. SkyWest is the single most important regional on that sheet of paper.

 

[pilotlbs]

Yes it dose. The letter is invalid. The SkyWest Pilots did not sign the letter. A SkyWest pilot may have as a SAPA rep with no powers and/or authority. Now because of someone narrowmindedness (SAPA) SkyWest Pilots might get bumbed off of United jumpseats, because of a jumpseat war. SkyWest Pilots have no contract with thier management, but do have a ever changing policy manual that contains no Commuter Protection Policy. Way to go SAPA! What is SAPA going to do for you if you get terminated for a failed commute?

Your posts have exceeded the maximum limit, please wait five seconds and try again. Thank you for playing.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Yes it dose. The letter is invalid. The SkyWest Pilots did not sign the letter. A SkyWest pilot may have as a SAPA rep with no powers and/or authority. Now because of someone narrowmindedness (SAPA) SkyWest Pilots might get bumbed off of United jumpseats, because of a jumpseat war. SkyWest Pilots have no contract with thier management, but do have a ever changing policy manual that contains no Commuter Protection Policy. Way to go SAPA! What is SAPA going to do for you if you get terminated for a failed commute?

How is the letter invalid when 5 other union carriers signed their Airlines name?

 

[Formula 1]

How is the letter invalid when 5 other union carriers signed their Airlines name?

That's fine. Let those count, but leave SkyWest out of it.

 

[Speedtape]

In regard to the J/S issue:

It appears that this is being handled in a very fair and open communications way. If you want to call it a Jumpseat war, then do as you may! AMR and WN are very firm in the terms and application of their "RECIPROCAL" Jumpseat Agreements.

After reading the issues, it does not appear, under current practice, that the application is RECIPROCAL OR FAIR! Furthermore, it does not appear that other reasonable attempts have reconciled the concerns of the affected parties. Maybe, thus far, it has not been in the best interest of the UAL MEC to pursue equity in the matter, since UAL pilots have enjoyed an advantage under the current practice. Obviously,
with the number of airlines petitioning the UAL MEC, there is disparate and unfair treatment.

One could speculate, that this solicitation or petitioning of the UAL MEC will resolve this issue. If I were a commuting UAL pilot, I would be voicing my concerns--STRONGLY to my MEC. This is not a Jumpseat War! It is a request to resolve an issue in a timely manner or face the consequences. Maybe, the UAL MEC, will now HELP resolve the issue so that a Fair and Reciprocal agreement exists for all parties.

Stay tuned! I guess Skywest could call it a "Friendly Petition."

 

[Caspian27]

Well Forumula1, you seem a little bitter. I don't know if you got denied a job at SkyWest, or used to work there and maybe it didn't end amicably...but since you are adding nothing but to this conversation:

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Of course not, but all employees are subjected to even distribution according to the rules of the SEC. A 18 year captain can only contribute within a certain limits relation to a part time ramper Butte, MT. making minimum wage. SkyWest discovered this error 6 years ago and the most senior pilots received checks in the mail refunding the overstated amount minus interest and was taxed. These captains had to report this on their tax returns and pay the difference. Some of these guys got 6 years of 401K money refunded. The company kept the differnce of course. Before that the company switched 401k managers and the pilots lost monies in tranfer fees. I knew one pilot who lost 80k. The 401K is pathic, you have to wait one year to get in. You only get a 2% match for the first 5 yrs. Then 4% from 5-10 and then a whopping 6% match after 10 years. The pilot group have no control over the plan. They are completely up to the whimes of management. Everyone knows that you have to contribute early and alot to have something for retirement. If the company can get a better deal somewhere else to save acouple of bucks they will transfer the 401k to a different company and there is nothing you can do about it, but pay the fees.

No contract, no protections.

I agree. HCE is a big problem and is currently in the process of being fixed....taken 5 years to get this far. How many more before its fixed i dont know.

This place is not as substandard as you'd like to believe...i've worked at 2 other carriers and this is the best so far. You are not winning any points by calling this place substandard nor are your union friends.

PS i voted for ALPA but since the vote the idiocy of the ALPA members makes me question what i was thinking.

 

[Formula 1]

SkyWest does about 80% of the UAX flying, and does about 100 less flights a day as UAX than UA does as Mainline. SkyWest is the single most important regional on that sheet of paper.

I know. Back in 2000 we were the largest United Express Carrier. You could add all the other Express Carriers up and it wasn't as big as we were. When I commuted on United, the United agents thought they owned us. I was bumped off the United jumpseat because back then we were L-3 status by a CO Pilot who was L-2. Since them a we became L-2 then finally L-1. We were L-3 status because of their policy that we weren't a exclusive "United Express Carrier". American Eagle enjoyed L-1 status because the United Jumpseat Chairman commuted on Eagle to ORD. In 1999-2000 SkyWest started a mini jumpseat war on the west coast. SAPA did not fix the problem. Management did because it was their seat and not the pilots.

 

[Caspian27]

I agree. HCE is a big problem and is currently in the process of being fixed....taken 5 years to get this far. How many more before its fixed i dont know.

This place is not as substandard as you'd like to believe...i've worked at 2 other carriers and this is the best so far. You are not winning any points by calling this place substandard nor are your union friends.

PS i voted for ALPA but since the vote the idiocy of the ALPA members makes me question what i was thinking.

I worked for other unionized carriers also, and am not anti-union. I also voted for ALPA in the latest election, but I totally agree with you bmpilot...

 

[bmpilot2003]

That's fine. Let those count, but leave SkyWest out of it.

That would be absolutely fine with me. Less day to day hassle that i would not have to deal with. Unfortunately for me thats not the way this is going down.

 

[bmpilot2003]

I know. When I commuted on United, the United agents thought they owned us. I was bumped off the United jumpseat because back then we were L-3 status. Since them a we became L-2 then finally L-1. We were L-3 status because of their policy that we weren't a exclusive "United Express Carrier". American Eagle enjoyed this status because the United Jumpseat Chairman commuted on Eagle to ORD. In 1999-2000 SkyWest started a mini jumpseat war on the west coast. SAPA did not fix the problem. Management did because it was their seat and not the pilots.

Maybe management will fixed it again, because guess who started this little problem UAALPA.

 

[Speedtape]

I know. When I commuted on United, the United agents thought they owned us......... Management did because it was their seat and not the pilots.

Maybe, should the UAL MEC decide to do the right thing, with their help, MGMT will decide to fix it again! But, I am not sure that MGMT will work with the UAL MEC.

 

[XPOO]

Well, the jumpseat policy does affect the dispatchers as well. So we all hope this is fixed amicably.

 

[bmpilot2003]

Maybe, should the UAL MEC decide to do the right thing, with their help, MGMT will decide to fix it again! But, I am not sure that MGMT will work with the UAL MEC.

UAALPA was the one that made the policy change not UAL. Oh and by the way UAALPA has decided not do the right thing by fixing it. Thats why this letter was sent out.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Formula 1 [aka, Capt Piehole [self-named]): What's wrong with the industry's pilots. An opinion based on nothing other than stupidity and opinion, and the inability to rationalize an argument other than via a third-grader's tactics. FWIW, even the union UEX pilots didn't sign this letter, though their representation did. You sir, are better categorized as an annoyance rather than having anything germaine to add. You must be a joy to fly with...if a pilot at all. If you've been in this industry as long as you profess in the above post, shame on you--or us, for even reading your posts.

 

[Morning Wood]

Of course not, but all employees are subjected to even distribution according to the rules of the SEC. A 18 year captain can only contribute within a certain limits relation to a part time ramper Butte, MT. making minimum wage. SkyWest discovered this error 6 years ago and the most senior pilots received checks in the mail refunding the overstated amount minus interest and was taxed. These captains had to report this on their tax returns and pay the difference. Some of these guys got 6 years of 401K money refunded. The company kept the differnce of course. Before that the company switched 401k managers and the pilots lost monies in tranfer fees. I knew one pilot who lost 80k. The 401K is pathic, you have to wait one year to get in. You only get a 2% match for the first 5 yrs. Then 4% from 5-10 and then a whopping 6% match after 10 years. The pilot group have no control over the plan. They are completely up to the whimes of management. Everyone knows that you have to contribute early and alot to have something for retirement. If the company can get a better deal somewhere else to save acouple of bucks they will transfer the 401k to a different company and there is nothing you can do about it, but pay the fees.

No contract, no protections.

There's only a handful that have higher than a 6% 401K match. And many of the ones who don't are union carriers. Explain that.

 

[viper548]

Well for one thing the "SkyWest Pilots" did not sign this letter. They lack a union and a spine. Besides why are you asking for something to be fixed when its not going to matter anyway when United Disappears.

You are just wasting your time.

Every United Express carrier except Trans States signed it.

 

[Formula 1]

Formula 1 [aka, Capt Piehole [self-named]): What's wrong with the industry's pilots. An opinion based on nothing other than stupidity and opinion, and the inability to rationalize an argument other than via a third-grader's tactics. FWIW, even the union UEX pilots didn't sign this letter, though their representation did. You sir, are better categorized as an annoyance rather than having anything germaine to add. You must be a joy to fly with...if a pilot at all.

Germaine?

Germaine Greer (born 29 January 1939) is an Australian-born writer, academic, journalist and scholar of early modern English literature, widely regarded as one of the most significant feminist voices of the later 20th century[1][2][3].
Greer's ideas have created controversy ever since her ground-breaking The Female Eunuch became an international best-seller in 1970, turning her overnight into a household name and bringing her both adulation and criticism. She is also the author of Sex and Destiny: The Politics of Human Fertility (1984); and The Change: Women, Ageing and the Menopause (1991) and most recently Shakespeare's Wife (2007).


Sure call me Captain Pie Hole, I don't care. If you want to add some thing constructive here them please do.

Captain Pie Hole

 

[Formula 1]

There's only a handful that have higher than a 6% 401K match. And many of the ones who don't are union carriers. Explain that.

Since I left I enjoy a 7.3% match that started day one and its managed by the pilots. I also have a company profit sharing plan too to the is really is just another 401K. I put $32,800 in saving last year. Yea, that's not worth paying 1.95% union dues for.

 

[Formula 1]

Focker Out!

 

[PCL_128]

If I were a commuting UAL pilot, I would be voicing my concerns--STRONGLY to my MEC.

Yes, I would be telling them to immediately cancel all jumpseat agreements with the listed UAX carriers. Guess who has more leverage here? Going to war with the UAL MEC is the dumbest thing I've ever seen from a regional pilot group, and I've seen some pretty dumb things.

 

[rightrudder]

What I don't get is this: the gate agent does not decide who rides the jumpseat. The Captain does. If a mainline pilot and a pilot from my own company come up to me to ride the jumpseat, i'm going to put the guy from my company on. Period. If the gate agents aren't letting you down to the aircraft, maybe the captain or FO need to go to the gate and make sure there aren't any other jumpseaters up there.

 

[XPOO]

Yes, I would be telling them to immediately cancel all jumpseat agreements with the listed UAX carriers. Guess who has more leverage here? Going to war with the UAL MEC is the dumbest thing I've ever seen from a regional pilot group, and I've seen some pretty dumb things.

The largest carrier in SFO, LAX, DEN and ORD telling UA Pilots that they can no longer fly jumpseat period kind of puts the SkyWest pilots at the advantage. The SkyWest guys can still take SkyWest planes whether its a United Express, Delta Connection or Midwest Connect, in order to commute.

 

[PCL_128]

The largest carrier in SFO, LAX, DEN and ORD telling UA Pilots that they can no longer fly jumpseat period kind of puts the SkyWest pilots at the advantage. The SkyWest guys can still take SkyWest planes whether its a United Express, Delta Connection or Midwest Connect, in order to commute.

Unlike regional MECs, mainline MECs work together, my friend. If the UAX guys start pulling this crap, you think there might be a chance that other mainline pilots will start denying your boys too? I think so. How well will your pilots be able to commute when pilots from every ALPA major start refusing you jumpseats? Don't start a war that you can't win. This is dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[Poahi]

The largest carrier in SFO, LAX, DEN and ORD telling UA Pilots that they can no longer fly jumpseat period kind of puts the SkyWest pilots at the advantage. The SkyWest guys can still take SkyWest planes whether its a United Express, Delta Connection or Midwest Connect, in order to commute.

Don't get sucked in to a jumpseat war. Solve the problem. Don't fight about it. Come on guys.

 

[XPOO]

It's not a jumpseat war, its a computer error that needs fixing. But i can go coast to coast on a SkyWest or ASA airplane and never set foot on mainline. Harsh reality.