Two Pilot Marriages

[FlyUnited]

Sorry Rez, I personally don't agree. Some women aren't meant to stay home. We (my family) made the sacrifice that he and I didn't see each other as often as we'd like and worked opposite schedules. Luckily in the airline world, we still had time to find days off together too. Our jobs do give us more quality time as a family than the typical 9 - 5 types of jobs. I know I would never have been a great 'stay home Mom'.

Some women really want to be home, and for that I applaud them. I never really wanted to have kids but he wanted them a lot. So he had to be willing to accept the sacrifices that he would have to make. He did GREAT!!! And the kids are healthy, happy and still costing me a TON OF MONEY!

 

[rdy4to]

Depends....

For the first 12-ish months the Mom should stay at home. Sorry girls, but you have the uterus and hormones that make nuturing so great...

But sure...HE can stay at home.... as long as one spouse is home.

I met a female airline pilot on the commute. Just met her and she told me how much her kids missed her, wondered why SHE had to leave for ovenight trips and she couldn't wait to get furloughed...

Personal decsison? Not when kids are a factor. It becomes a decision of sacrifice, priorities and what is best for the kids/family. Not really themes of ME-ism and feminism, it is anything but personal.

I have decided that your ideas come from idealism rather than experience. If you do have kids according to you they are getting your wife's values not yours since you are the working spouse.

I also think you don't really get what it means to want to be a pilot because you keep telling people to quit their flying jobs especially the women.

You keep pushing your version of a family on everyone who posts here. There is no ideal version of a familiy that will create the perfect child therefore creating the perfect society.

One of my friends just flew with a captain who's wife quit flying when she got pregnant. Now they are dealing with a pregnant sixteen year old child.

I find it very insulting that you keep implying that working parents are bad parents. You are insulting my friends and you are insulting my parents. Both my parents worked while I was growing up because they had no choice. We are talking about taking care of basic need; housing, clothing, food. While better off now, my parents still don't have a house, they just bought a new car for the first time in over 20yrs, the air conditioning is used sparingly and there has never been any cable. They raised two well rounded, upstanding citizens. No drugs, no alcohol, no teen pregnancies, no medications. My sister and I are proof that the American dream can still happen. We've both graduated from college (my sis from the Naval Academy), both of us have succeeded in our careers.

I have no problem with both parents working and wanting to provide a better future for their kids. Let me tell you how much is sucked watching other kids go on trips and do things after school and not being able to join because we couldn't afford it. How much it sucked when you didn't have enough clothes to last the week. You want to expose your children to as many new, positive experiences as possible rather than limit them. And yes, my parents took us to do many things that were free, but there were so many things we had to wait until we were adults to finally experience.

Rez, you are entitled to your ideas, but expand your horizons and see that good parenting does not fit some model that everyone must followed. That's the beauty of life and living in the US. We can make choices to make our lives the best we can for us and for our kids. The most you can do, is make the best decisions for your own kids.

 

[hoop]

Excellent post, rdy4to.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Untidy

Sorry Rez, I personally don't agree. Some women aren't meant to stay home. We (my family) made the sacrifice that he and I didn't see each other as often as we'd like and worked opposite schedules. Luckily in the airline world, we still had time to find days off together too. Our jobs do give us more quality time as a family than the typical 9 - 5 types of jobs. I know I would never have been a great 'stay home Mom'.

Some women really want to be home, and for that I applaud them. I never really wanted to have kids but he wanted them a lot. So he had to be willing to accept the sacrifices that he would have to make. He did GREAT!!! And the kids are healthy, happy and still costing me a TON OF MONEY!

You do fly for the big U I can tell

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry Rez, I personally don't agree. Some women aren't meant to stay home. We (my family) made the sacrifice that he and I didn't see each other as often as we'd like and worked opposite schedules. Luckily in the airline world, we still had time to find days off together too. Our jobs do give us more quality time as a family than the typical 9 - 5 types of jobs. I know I would never have been a great 'stay home Mom'.

Some women really want to be home, and for that I applaud them. I never really wanted to have kids but he wanted them a lot. So he had to be willing to accept the sacrifices that he would have to make. He did GREAT!!! And the kids are healthy, happy and still costing me a TON OF MONEY!

Some women aren't meant to be at home? No worries... Have the successful career all you want.. just don't have kids....

Putting your job/career.passion ahead of your kids sends exactly that message. Kids are selfish.. they need to believe that tey are number one.. until they mature into young adults that is how it is....

You never really wanted to have kids... but yet you had them... that says alot.... I feel sorry for kids who's Mom didn't really want them....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have decided that your ideas come from idealism rather than experience. If you do have kids according to you they are getting your wife's values not yours since you are the working spouse.

I also think you don't really get what it means to want to be a pilot because you keep telling people to quit their flying jobs especially the women.

You keep pushing your version of a family on everyone who posts here. There is no ideal version of a familiy that will create the perfect child therefore creating the perfect society.

One of my friends just flew with a captain who's wife quit flying when she got pregnant. Now they are dealing with a pregnant sixteen year old child.

I find it very insulting that you keep implying that working parents are bad parents. You are insulting my friends and you are insulting my parents. Both my parents worked while I was growing up because they had no choice. We are talking about taking care of basic need; housing, clothing, food. While better off now, my parents still don't have a house, they just bought a new car for the first time in over 20yrs, the air conditioning is used sparingly and there has never been any cable. They raised two well rounded, upstanding citizens. No drugs, no alcohol, no teen pregnancies, no medications. My sister and I are proof that the American dream can still happen. We've both graduated from college (my sis from the Naval Academy), both of us have succeeded in our careers.

I have no problem with both parents working and wanting to provide a better future for their kids. Let me tell you how much is sucked watching other kids go on trips and do things after school and not being able to join because we couldn't afford it. How much it sucked when you didn't have enough clothes to last the week. You want to expose your children to as many new, positive experiences as possible rather than limit them. And yes, my parents took us to do many things that were free, but there were so many things we had to wait until we were adults to finally experience.

Rez, you are entitled to your ideas, but expand your horizons and see that good parenting does not fit some model that everyone must followed. That's the beauty of life and living in the US. We can make choices to make our lives the best we can for us and for our kids. The most you can do, is make the best decisions for your own kids.

rdy4to-

Stick to the arguement. You are switching it around... I agree with your post in that tough times require tough sacrfices. That is not the discussion...

The discussion is a two income household that can do fine with one income, however both parents work becuase they want thier "career", materialism or personal fullfillment.

Your case is different. I am in the same boat a little in that we don't have alot of discretionary income, but I am contributing to my 401k. It does stink when the neighbors say a group of kids are going to.... And we really don't have extra $50 to blow on "fun". But good values and interaction betwen parents and kids trumps $50 any day. Kids don't care what they are doing just as long they are with thier parents.

Putting kids in daycare so you can have a career or freetime or a hobby is BS. Look at our granparents.. what took 20 years to acquire, we demand to have it all now. Social conditioning says a women is worthless unless she is working.

The arguement is parents who choose because of socio-politcal, cultural and materialism formatting to put themselves first before thier kids.

 

[rdy4to]

rdy4to-

Stick to the arguement. You are switching it around... I agree with your post in that tough times require tough sacrfices. That is not the discussion...

The discussion is a two income household that can do fine with one income, however both parents work becuase they want thier "career", materialism or personal fullfillment.

Your case is different. I am in the same boat a little in that we don't have alot of discretionary income, but I am contributing to my 401k. It does stink when the neighbors say a group of kids are going to.... And we really don't have extra $50 to blow on "fun". But good values and interaction betwen parents and kids trumps $50 any day. Kids don't care what they are doing just as long they are with thier parents.

Putting kids in daycare so you can have a career or freetime or a hobby is BS. Look at our granparents.. what took 20 years to acquire, we demand to have it all now. Social conditioning says a women is worthless unless she is working.

The arguement is parents who choose because of socio-politcal, cultural and materialism formatting to put themselves first before thier kids.

Let's stick to the real arguement. The thread is about can two pilots marry and have kids and have everything turn out good. I've seen it happening for years.

You keep saying when both parents work the kids get the wrong message from the parents. That's the true arguement. Are kids harmed when both parents work? I say no. No matter what "circumstance" exists that has both parents working; what kids want to know is: do my parents love me, do my parents spend quality time with me (not just hanging out at home like some parents do), do my parents do what is right for me, are my parents doing all they can to make sure I'm cared for, do my parents love each other. Come on...kids arent' stupid. They can sense when a parent works to get away from the family and when a parent works because it is something that they are passionate about. It's a great thing to show kids that there is much in life to be passionate about. Let's not teach our kids that only men are allowed to passionate about stuff and women must stay home with the kids, no choice. We are not here just to procreate and live out our lives dedicated to our offspring. Might as well be an animal if that was so. I'm saying you can be passionate about your kids and your flying.

I'm not talking about daycare, you brought that up in another thread. Most two pilot families have a parent home with the child 24hrs a day. A child getting the parent's values all day long. There are the occasions when the schedules over lap and maybe for a couple of hours or one day the child is with a loving caregiver, whether grandparents or other. So what if it's one day. Come on, I'm sure you've used a babysitter before or don't you ever go out with your wife alone? Kids get sent to school where they spend all day listening to other people's values, they spend time at their friends houses listening those people's values. There are many times you are not there, but hopefully you've instilled in your kids what is wrong and what is right and taught them to stand up for themselves and their beliefs. This is not taught just because one parent is home 24/7. This taught through interaction between parents and kids and that' s the crux of everything you are arguing about. Can this be taught when mom doesn't stay home all the time? Come on, I know you and your wife don't agree on everything. I know you've taught your kids what is important and you work. Why is what they are learning from mom any different than what they are learning from you and how is that any different than what other kids are learning from their working pilot parents?

You mention about kids being selfish and how we need to fulfill that need in them until they are mature young adults. What are you talking about? Many problems in this society stem from people thinking they are #1. If you don't teach your kids at a young age to be altruistic they may never be able to think of others before themselves. They don't just become adults and decide to start thinking about the world around them.

On a sidenote, because this is your thinking and I had to say something, in another thread you mention how women should marry in their 20's, go to college while the kids are in school and then launch their careers after the kids are gone. What a scary statement. Be very wary of what kind of world you are advocating here. There are some amazing women who can do what you say, but this is not the path that would really happen. You are advocating that women who do not have any life experience and a high school education raising the future generations of the US. Remember you, the working spouse, is working and not around as much as mom. Look at the countries around the world who treat women this way and be very afraid of what you want. And don't be naive in thinking there is no connection between how a country treats it's women and how the same country's morals are established.

Also, if this is your case and your wife is still trying to get her education, I hope nothing ever happens to you that causes permanent mental disablity because your wife and kids are going to be in a world of hurt. It'd be better if you don't survive the accident and they get the life insurance. Remeber we don't live in an ideal world where everything goes according to plan. I've seen my parents trying to find employment without a college education and that was back then. In this market....

Look sorry for the long post. I realize that you only want what's best for your kids and seems like everybody else's kids, but understand that your way isn't the only way and you keep attacking every person who posts something different from your way. This thread was to get experiences from other people to see what is happening out there and you bounce in forcefully bullying the posters you don't agree with. There is nothing wrong with stating your beliefs and how it is working for you, but there is something wrong telling other people what they are doing is wrong. You are not a judge nor are you all knowing. Share your experiences, but quit being a bully.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Some women aren't meant to be at home? No worries... Have the successful career all you want.. just don't have kids....

....

How about mind your own friggin business buddy!?!?!?!?

My mom had me and my dad was nowhere to be found! Oh, yeah, he was at the bar spending his paycheck. Who fed me? That's right.....my working mother! No welfare check, no food stamps....just her $3 an hour sweatshop job. Who paid for all my flying lessons? That's right.....my hardworking, never around mother! Where was my father? Oh, yeah, 6 feet under after he commited suicide while drunk! THANKS DAD! Maybe if my mother had a successful career, she wouldn't have to work like a slave in a laundromat to feed me and provide shelter. You just need to shut it and your sexist opinions. FlyUnited isn't abandoning her kids, she just does opposite schedules like I plan to do when I have kids so buzz off with your high allmighty self.

 

[capt. megadeth]

rdy4to....excellent post. I agree.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Let's stick to the real arguement. The thread is about can two pilots marry and have kids and have everything turn out good. I've seen it happening for years.

And not happening for years. Kids don't have the skillset to say. Mom/Dad this whole two pilot thing isn't working out for me. I like two parents home as much as possible.

They are counting on you to make the best choices for them...

In fact kids believe that whatever is the staus quo in the house is real and normal.

You keep saying when both parents work the kids get the wrong message from the parents. That's the true arguement. Are kids harmed when both parents work? I say no. No matter what "circumstance" exists that has both parents working; what kids want to know is: do my parents love me, do my parents spend quality time with me (not just hanging out at home like some parents do), do my parents do what is right for me, are my parents doing all they can to make sure I'm cared for, do my parents love each other. Come on...kids arent' stupid. They can sense when a parent works to get away from the family and when a parent works because it is something that they are passionate about. It's a great thing to show kids that there is much in life to be passionate about. Let's not teach our kids that only men are allowed to passionate about stuff and women must stay home with the kids, no choice. We are not here just to procreate and live out our lives dedicated to our offspring. Might as well be an animal if that was so. I'm saying you can be passionate about your kids and your flying.

This is justification. You're right, kids aren't stupid and they know when parents are putting wants ahead of thier needs. Call it a passion if you want. But kids know... As I said kids are selfish and they need thier parents more than thier parents want thier passion. Spin it how you like...

I'm not talking about daycare, you brought that up in another thread. Most two pilot families have a parent home with the child 24hrs a day. A child getting the parent's values all day long. There are the occasions when the schedules over lap and maybe for a couple of hours or one day the child is with a loving caregiver, whether grandparents or other. So what if it's one day. Come on, I'm sure you've used a babysitter before or don't you ever go out with your wife alone? Kids get sent to school where they spend all day listening to other people's values, they spend time at their friends houses listening those people's values. There are many times you are not there, but hopefully you've instilled in your kids what is wrong and what is right and taught them to stand up for themselves and their beliefs. This is not taught just because one parent is home 24/7. This taught through interaction between parents and kids and that' s the crux of everything you are arguing about. Can this be taught when mom doesn't stay home all the time? Come on, I know you and your wife don't agree on everything. I know you've taught your kids what is important and you work. Why is what they are learning from mom any different than what they are learning from you and how is that any different than what other kids are learning from their working pilot parents?

Your are still straying for the discussion. With one pilot/parent always on the go what you are saying is.. As long as one parent is around the other one can go off and do thier own thing... What kind of script or conditioning does that set..

Kids love it best when both parents are together... when the whole family is together.. Why deny that? Especially for a passion (want)?

You mention about kids being selfish and how we need to fulfill that need in them until they are mature young adults. What are you talking about? Many problems in this society stem from people thinking they are #1. If you don't teach your kids at a young age to be altruistic they may never be able to think of others before themselves. They don't just become adults and decide to start thinking about the world around them.

Stay on target... You stray more off course than a solo student working on his first cross county. Kids need to be self reliant of course, but they also need to be built up. They need to know that thier parents trust and respect them. When one parent is always off punching holes in clouds you are saying the family togetherness isn't as important as indivdual needs...

On a sidenote, because this is your thinking and I had to say something, in another thread you mention how women should marry in their 20's, go to college while the kids are in school and then launch their careers after the kids are gone. What a scary statement. Be very wary of what kind of world you are advocating here. There are some amazing women who can do what you say, but this is not the path that would really happen. You are advocating that women who do not have any life experience and a high school education raising the future generations of the US. Remember you, the working spouse, is working and not around as much as mom. Look at the countries around the world who treat women this way and be very afraid of what you want. And don't be naive in thinking there is no connection between how a country treats it's women and how the same country's morals are established.

Now you are getting twisted. What is your rationale? So high school educated women aren't smart? they don't have values and integrity? Are you really that conditioned?

you trying to spin..... I am advocating that women make a choice. Trying to have it all...kids and career is not fair. they need to make choices. If they can get a man to stay at home...great... If they get a college education first then raise kids then go for the career great..

Also, if this is your case and your wife is still trying to get her education, I hope nothing ever happens to you that causes permanent mental disablity because your wife and kids are going to be in a world of hurt. It'd be better if you don't survive the accident and they get the life insurance. Remeber we don't live in an ideal world where everything goes according to plan. I've seen my parents trying to find employment without a college education and that was back then. In this market....

Now you are a mental health expert....

Look sorry for the long post. I realize that you only want what's best for your kids and seems like everybody else's kids, but understand that your way isn't the only way and you keep attacking every person who posts something different from your way. This thread was to get experiences from other people to see what is happening out there and you bounce in forcefully bullying the posters you don't agree with. There is nothing wrong with stating your beliefs and how it is working for you, but there is something wrong telling other people what they are doing is wrong. You are not a judge nor are you all knowing. Share your experiences, but quit being a bully.

Consider this....

In the past in only took one income to make it work.. but times have changed.. now it takes two.. what are we as a society going to do when it takes three incomes to get by. Please answer...


Also.. I've never heard anyone say.. I wish I spent less time with my kids and family and more time at work. Have you? Please reply...