Two Pilot Marriages

[capt. megadeth]

Yeah, I figured he wouldn't have anything to say to me.....just keeps on preaching! I'm glad you have it all figured out Rez.

 

[FlyUnited]

Rez, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. My kids have turned out great (in my opinion anyway) and seem to be quite productive people. Maybe they would have preferred that I stay home, bored silly, for their entire childhoods. What would that have taught them? I'm no expert, but I've seen a LOT of messed up kids who had stay home Moms. I've seen great kids from stay home Moms too. I don't find the "stay home Mom" factoring into why a kid is good or not.

I think my kids saw the sacrifices we made (not seeing each other as much as we would have liked) so that we would raise our children instead of a nanny as a good example of our love for them. I also think our kids had more quality time with us because of the days, entire days!, that we could all share together. You can't get that with the 9 to 5 jobs, that's for sure.

I'm hoping that your wife and kids are truly loved and happy, I really do. Tell me though, you made her breast feed too, didn't you? Something tells me that all these things you make your wife do (and wish to force all women to do too) are really just to make things easier for yourself. How very selfish of you.

Is your name Rusty Yates, by chance?

 

[satpak77]

All the bantering aside, if economically feasible, if mom stays at home, the kids would benefit much more.

And that is the truth. Period, end of story.

 

[lifeguard]

Rez..what I am getting from you know is that NEITHER parent should fly??? That is ridiculous.

 

[capt. megadeth]

All the bantering aside, if economically feasible, if mom stays at home, the kids would benefit much more.

And that is the truth. Period, end of story.

The truth from who's perspective? Yours? Um, I don't think you are necessarily right. Period, end of story.

 

[FlyUnited]

All the bantering aside, if economically feasible, if mom stays at home, the kids would benefit much more.

And that is the truth. Period, end of story.

Thank goodness for 'mother's little helpers' then. :beer: I've noticed that a few housewives around the block appear to enjoy mixing the drinks with pills. Oh yes, good to keep her bored to the point that she needs to be trashed everyday to survive. You know the ones, always smiling that Stepford Wife smile as she helps the kiddies paste buttons on pinecones.....as she gulps down a few pills with a vodka straight up. Oh yes, that's good parenting alright.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Thank goodness for 'mother's little helpers' then. :beer: I've noticed that a few housewives around the block appear to enjoy mixing the drinks with pills. Oh yes, good to keep her bored to the point that she needs to be trashed everyday to survive. You know the ones, always smiling that Stepford Wife smile as she helps the kiddies paste buttons on pinecones.....as she gulps down a few pills with a vodka straight up. Oh yes, that's good parenting alright.

LOL! No doubt! Hey, Fly, maybe we should start a movement saying that we think all men should stay at home, cook, clean and tend to the children. I mean, some men like to tell us what they think we should do.....maybe we should start demanding what they do. He he

 

[lifeguard]

I am here to tell you being a stay at home mom is not boring, although it could be if I didn't plan activites for us to do. I hang out with our friends,do fun and educational stuff with my little guy and make sure I have at kleast a full day to myself to do whatever I want. I don't drink or smoke, either.

 

[FlyUnited]

That's great to hear. The point of the argument is that you WANT to be there. I'm talking about some of the more vocal men saying that women should be there, like it or not.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. My kids have turned out great (in my opinion anyway) and seem to be quite productive people. Maybe they would have preferred that I stay home, bored silly, for their entire childhoods. What would that have taught them? I'm no expert, but I've seen a LOT of messed up kids who had stay home Moms. I've seen great kids from stay home Moms too. I don't find the "stay home Mom" factoring into why a kid is good or not.

If you don't know how to be at home with your children and not be bored then perhaps you shouldn't have any. You believe that being at home bored with kids would have taught them negative bavavior? Do I have this right?

Again the arguement, if you choose to stay on track is, two pilot marriages.

Kids like to be with Mom and Dad together. The more time the better. Nobody says I wish I flew more trips and was away from the kids more.

I think my kids saw the sacrifices we made (not seeing each other as much as we would have liked) so that we would raise our children instead of a nanny as a good example of our love for them. I also think our kids had more quality time with us because of the days, entire days!, that we could all share together. You can't get that with the 9 to 5 jobs, that's for sure.

What sacrfices? You mean choices. And you just stated that you would like to see each other more..... so what is the deal?

Here you gowith the quality time arguement. Sure you are gone on multi-day trips but the time you spend with your kids is 'quality time'. uh..ok. Fact is you are telling your kids.. there are more important things in life than you kids... Mom has gotta fly her jet... being your mother is not enough. I need to validate myself amongts my peers.

Kids like a daily routine.

I'm hoping that your wife and kids are truly loved and happy, I really do. Tell me though, you made her breast feed too, didn't you? Something tells me that all these things you make your wife do (and wish to force all women to do too) are really just to make things easier for yourself. How very selfish of you.

Breast feeding really doesn't work for the jet setting Mom. The pumping, the storing, etc. I mean can you imagine setting up at cruise at FL-Whatever and sliding your seat back, looking over at what's his name and saying "I gotta pump"

Not sure if you want to know this but nature has got it figured out. Breast milk is best for babies. It trumps anything Gerber can make. To deny a baby breast milk cause of career ambitions or 'I am just going to be bored all day staring at four walls' is very sad. If the women pump it, I'll feed the baby, so don't think I am at the ballgame with no concern.

Is your name Rusty Yates, by chance?

Getting personal and insulting? I'll debate your comments and behavior. Can you?

Thank goodness for 'mother's little helpers' then. :beer: I've noticed that a few housewives around the block appear to enjoy mixing the drinks with pills. Oh yes, good to keep her bored to the point that she needs to be trashed everyday to survive. You know the ones, always smiling that Stepford Wife smile as she helps the kiddies paste buttons on pinecones.....as she gulps down a few pills with a vodka straight up. Oh yes, that's good parenting alright.

And you are a better mother cause you leave your kids for half the week, which means half the month, which means half the year...

So are you saying that if you stayed at home you'd be so bored you'd drink? Please clarify. Until you do I'm not sure you primary conern is your kids. Doing a four day or concerned you'd become a bored alcoholic doesn't sound good. But correct me. I'm sure it's not really like this...

That's great to hear. The point of the argument is that you WANT to be there. I'm talking about some of the more vocal men saying that women should be there, like it or not.

Do you WANT to be there? Fact is you and your spouse would rather be flying jets than being together more often. And I mean all of you together. I fly jets to put food on the table. However it is not my identity and I would do something else if I had to. My identity is being my wife's spouse and my kids Dad.

I'm not saying women should be there.. well ok.. for the infant years they should. You have the uterus and breast and oxytocin. What I am really advocating is that someone be there. A spouse. Mr Mom is great.

If you aren't a class A example of social programing I don't know what is. You have determined that your identity and value is based upon working. If you didn't work then you'd be bored silly. So what would you do if you lost your job? Would you know how to stay at home if you had to? Wanted to?

I am all for women having jobs, careers and flying jets. Some of the best pilots are women cause they don't have the macho crap that so many guys bring. Unless a spouse stays at home the whole two career thing with kids is BS. Make a choice career or kids.

I liked the story of the two USAF Officers assigned to the Pentagon. They worked 12+ hour days and cycled au pairs (sp) in from Europe. Three kids. The daughter saw her Mom one hour a day and lived on cereal. What are they trying to gain?

But it is like the girl (?) that wants to know how to work for a regional and care for her two dogs. Our culture and society has programmed us that we get what we want. We get to have it all. We are willing to stretch oursleves thin to do so, even though the results are mediorce. What sad is this is done with kids. Sorry, but divorce rates at 50%, kids on behavior drugs etc.. We doing a poor job with our kids.

Here is the big question...

What is wrong with staying at home and raising, parenting and mentoring your children? Why is that considered mindless, low class, work for stupid people?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

LOL! No doubt! Hey, Fly, maybe we should start a movement saying that we think all men should stay at home, cook, clean and tend to the children. I mean, some men like to tell us what they think we should do.....maybe we should start demanding what they do. He he

I think the feminist movement has already taken care of that. By default, with more women working either the extra income has to be spent on maid service or men have to pick up the slack. Less free time, unless the chicks are making enough bank to cover for services to make up for lost time. Grass cutting, oil changes, house cleaning, food preperation, daycare, etc...

 

[capt. megadeth]

Rez,
In high school I had a friend whose mom stayed at home. My mom was working all the time. The last time we talked we had a conversation that involved drugs. My friend told me she wanted to shoot up heroin. I asked her what she would do if I gave her an ultimatum......our friendship or trying shooting up heroin. She said goodbye. My point is is that just because you have a parent at home does not mean you will turn out as well as a child with working parents. I do agree with some of your thinking, however there is more to life than just kids. Just because you have kids does not mean you cannot have a career too. As a matter of fact, the main reason I don't have kids yet is because I take the responsibility very seriously and I want to make sure that when we do have kids, we are around alot. By that, I mean, I realize that when I am not flying, ALL of my free time will be devoted to my kids. You can have both and there are couples that do it and their kids are fine.

 

[FlyUnited]

Absolutely Mega.

Rez, unless you can prove that all stay home Moms are better than working Moms, you can't win this argument. Without bragging, you'd be hard pressed to get kids to top what mine have accomplished. Two valedictorians, two nationally ranked swimmers, two polite, kind, intelligent young men, two working parents. I'm sorry if that equals failure to you but it doesn't to us.

 

[rdy4to]

I think the feminist movement has already taken care of that. By default, with more women working either the extra income has to be spent on maid service or men have to pick up the slack. Less free time, unless the chicks are making enough bank to cover for services to make up for lost time. Grass cutting, oil changes, house cleaning, food preperation, daycare, etc...

Rez,
I'm only replying to you because you said "please reply" and I am considerate that way.

Most of your counter points to my post weren't really counter points and fairly weak at that. You made many emotional, sarcastic, disparaging statements which you need to stop. I have made so such comments to you. Respect that.

First of all, you need to look up the meaning of altruistic. It has nothing to do with "self-reliant kids who need building up." You missed my whole point.

Second, the comment about "mental health expert" was childish and again you missed my point. I flew organ procurement for a year. Many, many people have accidents and many do not die. It's a medical fact. That was my point regarding your family without you. Nothing to do with mental health.

If you want to debate then do a better job. You are entitled to your opinions, but everytime you sweep another person's opinion away with blanket statements such as "This is justification." and "stay on target" and other such remarks, you lose the respect of the other person you are debating with and the debate deteriorates.

Regarding your challenge about hearing someone say "I wish I'd spent more time at work and less with my kids." Well, I've never heard anyone say the opposite either. What that does prove?

So here are my very serious questions to you. You say that kids want to spend as much time as possible with both parents. How much time are you spending with yours as a family? I am curious what you think is enough time since you do fly for a living and I figure with the aircraft listed you definitely do overnights. I am also very curious why you continue to fly rather than work a 8-5 job where you would be home every night. This is not a challenge or a goad. I am serious and interested in your answers.

On a slightly non-serious note, regarding your quote above...Who needs a husband when you can have a wife like the one you're describing. Not only does your definition of a wife include a women who bears and raises your children, goes to college while the kids are in school, but she is also the maid, lawn mower, oil changer, chef, and I suppose, since many of your comments are fairly sexist, she's gotta keep in good shape too. You're one lucky man to have found such a great woman. Kudos to you. Let me know if there are any more around.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
In high school I had a friend whose mom stayed at home. My mom was working all the time. The last time we talked we had a conversation that involved drugs. My friend told me she wanted to shoot up heroin. I asked her what she would do if I gave her an ultimatum......our friendship or trying shooting up heroin. She said goodbye.

Not sure why you guys don't want to stay on discussion. The arguement isn't "Two pilot marriages with good kids is better than a stay at home spouse who shoots up drugs"

The discussion is two pilot spouses who have kids and if the kids deserve to have a spouse around or does each spouse "deserve" to have thier passion or work life or second income or identity recognition or etc...

My point is is that just because you have a parent at home does not mean you will turn out as well as a child with working parents. I do agree with some of your thinking, however there is more to life than just kids. Just because you have kids does not mean you cannot have a career too.

This is the fundamental disagreement. Sorry, when you decide to have kids one spouse (man or woman) needs to be at home with them. This includes the teen years, when parents think thier teenagers are becomming more independent. Sure teens can cook thier own meals but they still need unconditional love and guidance (even though they say they don't).

Having children is a serious commitment. More than anything else in the world. For some reason our social programming has devalued child rasing. Sure it sounds better when people ask.. What do you do? Responding with "I am an Air Line Pilot" sounds better and cooler than "I am a stay at home parent". We don't even have a good description for it...

As a matter of fact, the main reason I don't have kids yet is because I take the responsibility very seriously and I want to make sure that when we do have kids, we are around alot. By that, I mean, I realize that when I am not flying, ALL of my free time will be devoted to my kids. You can have both and there are couples that do it and their kids are fine.

I'm sure the kids are fine.. my point is did they get everything that they could have and and what cost. What is the trade off and is it worth it?

Not sure why one would want to have kids then have both spouses hit the road? Why have kids then?

Children including teens need unconditional love. When two pilots have kids you are simply telling them that something is more important then them. Now..what is it that is more important?

I have yet to hear someone say, 'I wish I flew more trip and spent less time with the kids'. Once the age or time frame is gone, you can't get it back. Age 1-18 only happens once.