Two Pilot Marriages

[capt. megadeth]

One of you will have to quit. I know two pilot moms who found it too difficult and quit.

Ok, I said I was outta here but I am back.

I have been told this before..."one of you will have to quit" It's funny though because it's always someone whose wife or husband stay at home with the kids. The 2 pilot couples always say "oh, you definitely can do it". It gets on my nerves when people tell me what I am going to "have" to do. Just because some people can't handle things doesn't mean others can't. It kind of reminds me of the people that said "You want to be a pilot? It's so hard to become a pilot. Do you really want to do it? It's soooo hard to become a pilot". If I would have listened to their weak a## and said "well, it's hard to become one so I might as well not do it", I probably be flipping burgers right now. Things in this world aren't easy folks but just because you can't hack it....doesn't mean someone else can't either.

 

[eddie]

flyunited, your argument doesn't convince me. Sure the 2 pilot thing will work if you can drop your line or each of you can drop to 40 hours. That isn't a 2 pilot household, thats a one pilot household split between two people.

 

[FlyUnited]

No, not exactly. If you both plan to work all the time, then why have a child at all? And not just in aviation, in any field. If you want kids, you need to prioritize your life.

I'm saying, simply, if a woman or man wants to stay home with children, then that person would make a wonderful parent. If one parent is FORCED to stay home because the other one tells them they must, then that is a recipe for disaster.

Anyways, it worked for us and the kids turned out great. I do seem to find it interesting that the most vocal people about forcing women into stay home momhood (made that up myself) usually seem to be the men. I wonder why that is?

 

[capt. megadeth]

I do seem to find it interesting that the most vocal people about forcing women into stay home momhood (made that up myself) usually seem to be the men. I wonder why that is?

It's like men talking about whether abortion should be legal or not. They should have no say in any of it.

 

[woobietail]

I fly corporate and my husband flys for a major and we make it work!! I wouldn't change a thing! We are both understanding of each others schedule!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Anyways, it worked for us and the kids turned out great. I do seem to find it interesting that the most vocal people about forcing women into stay home momhood (made that up myself) usually seem to be the men. I wonder why that is?

Because the feminist agenda was crammed down mens throats. It was forced upon us..... and the changes that occured in the work place and home. Perhaps change needed to occur but that radicalism has had aftershocks. Men certianly weren't a partner in the movement. I never really viewed June Cleaver and Laura Petrie as oppressed or suffering. But hey, if women feel they needed to create a 'women vs men' issue out of it, then so be it.

Just because women decided to work doesn't mean men have to vacuum. If women want to work to "prove" themselves, then fine, but don't forget your domestic duties. Men haven't forgotten thiers. One of the reasons why the feminist movement was successful is because, even though during the day, women became competitive b1tches (men are the equivilant b@stards..) at night... men still want to get laid!! So men said.. fine fine...whatever you want just don't with hold the pootang!!

Women working isn't about providing for families via putting food on the table, clothes on our backs and a roof over our head and paying the bills. Sure there are plenty of women that are in that situation, but they were going to work regardless of the socio-political movement.

Women working is about social equality. It certianly wasn't becuase the unemployment rate was so low. The feminist are about control and power. (let's be clear... I am not saying women should stay at home, only a spouse)

Women defining thier worth via the workplace has certianly had side effects. More than ever, women are/were placing children second or ancillary. (this whole debate thread). But now that women are working thier is no need to stay married. Both men and women are more committed to themselves. Consider families even 200 to 3000+ years ago. A man needed a woman and vice versa. It was hard to survive without each other. Now that has all changed with "Up yours! I got mine!"

Let's not forget the value of women. They have always been priceless. They bring a balance to marriage and home. Just like men do. It is just harder to bring that balance when women and men are working. Just because women have declared their rightful place in the workplace doesn't men should stay at home?! Those certianly weren't terms at the Feminazi Peace Accord.

And allot of girls are confused. They want career and family. They've been told you can have it all! You should have it all and maybe there is something wrong with you if you don't get it all. It seems that most people would like to have someone home when they get home from work. Well, why hook up with someone if they aren't around...? IOW, from a man's perpsective, if they can find a women who won't be gone on four day trips or better will be home and keep house then more power to him! But working chicks shouldn't be pissed! They've made thier bed.... We all make our choices... And let's not streotype the man as a patriarch who finds a woman who wants to stay at home.

I think women have a different way of showing it, but I don't see the passion in aviation in women. It seems women view aviation as a medium to prove they can work. And don't get me wroing, some of the best pilots are women and I'd rather fly with chicks than some guys. Sure they love flying....But when a crew passes the UPS ramp in the hotel van and the guy says "check out the fans on that 8" The chick goes.. "huh? Wha?"




FlyUnited- I heard a great joke yeaterday... you've probably heard it.

A boy whose mom was an airline pilot and dad was an accountant was asked one day.. When you grow up do you want to be a pilot? They boy replied. No! That is womens work!

 

[rdy4to]

Because the feminist agenda was crammed down mens throats. It was forced upon us..... and the changes that occured in the work place and home. Perhaps change needed to occur but that radicalism has had aftershocks. Men certianly weren't a partner in the movement. I never really viewed June Cleaver and Laura Petrie as oppressed or suffering. But hey, if women feel they needed to create a 'women vs men' issue out of it, then so be it.



Just because women decided to work doesn't mean men have to vacuum. If women want to work to "prove" themselves, then fine, but don't forget your domestic duties. Men haven't forgotten thiers. One of the reasons why the feminist movement was successful is because, even though during the day, women became competitive b1tches (men are the equivilant b@stards..) at night... men still want to get laid!! So men said.. fine fine...whatever you want just don't with hold the pootang!!

Women working isn't about providing for families via putting food on the table, clothes on our backs and a roof over our head and paying the bills. Sure there are plenty of women that are in that situation, but they were going to work regardless of the socio-political movement.

Women working is about social equality. It certianly wasn't becuase the unemployment rate was so low. The feminist are about control and power. (let's be clear... I am not saying women should stay at home, only a spouse)

Women defining thier worth via the workplace has certianly had side effects. More than ever, women are/were placing children second or ancillary. (this whole debate thread). But now that women are working thier is no need to stay married. Both men and women are more committed to themselves. Consider families even 200 to 3000+ years ago. A man needed a woman and vice versa. It was hard to survive without each other. Now that has all changed with "Up yours! I got mine!"

Let's not forget the value of women. They have always been priceless. They bring a balance to marriage and home. Just like men do. It is just harder to bring that balance when women and men are working. Just because women have declared their rightful place in the workplace doesn't men should stay at home?! Those certianly weren't terms at the Feminazi Peace Accord.

And allot of girls are confused. They want career and family. They've been told you can have it all! You should have it all and maybe there is something wrong with you if you don't get it all. It seems that most people would like to have someone home when they get home from work. Well, why hook up with someone if they aren't around...? IOW, from a man's perpsective, if they can find a women who won't be gone on four day trips or better will be home and keep house then more power to him! But working chicks shouldn't be pissed! They've made thier bed.... We all make our choices... And let's not streotype the man as a patriarch who finds a woman who wants to stay at home.

I think women have a different way of showing it, but I don't see the passion in aviation in women. It seems women view aviation as a medium to prove they can work. And don't get me wroing, some of the best pilots are women and I'd rather fly with chicks than some guys. Sure they love flying....But when a crew passes the UPS ramp in the hotel van and the guy says "check out the fans on that 8" The chick goes.. "huh? Wha?"




FlyUnited- I heard a great joke yeaterday... you've probably heard it.

A boy whose mom was an airline pilot and dad was an accountant was asked one day.. When you grow up do you want to be a pilot? They boy replied. No! That is womens work!

Rez,
Since you have changed the subject...You need to educate yourself regarding feminism and why it came into existence and what its purpose is. It is not based on the ability to work or have sex freely. Women have been working and having sex since the begining of time. Feminism began with getting rid of the "rule of thumb" (how big the stick can be when you beat your wife because it was okay to beat your wife as long as you followed the rule), it began with having equal rights, it began with securing the ability to vote and contribute to our futures (many of those women were divorced, beaten and raped while they pursued the right to vote), it began with the right not to be raped even by our own husbands and much much more. You go on and on about the past and the roles women and men had through rose colored lenses. Life back then wasn't the way you think it was.

Regarding the "women are priceless" comment, in the past men married multiple women in a row (because childbirth was the leading cause of death for women) to raise the children he already had. In the present world we live in women are shunned for having breast cancer, women are shunned for not producing a male child, women are shunned for being widows, women are mutilated for having sex organs. Do some research on history and the world we live in before broadcasting your uneducated version of whe "way things were" and how things in the present should be. Feminism is about women having the same rights all human beings. It's not just your narrow view of it.

I also like how everything comes down to "pootang"... Lovely...That totally convinces me you're so right about it all...Right! Whatever!

What a judgemental person you are. How dare you say you have more passion for flying because you like the "hardware on an airplane" more than a women might. How does that translate to "passion in aviation"? There is alot more to flying than just the equipment. How small and narrow your view is, but that's no new surprise. Don't belittle what you may not understand about other people's passions just because they don't mirror yours. Be more tolerant of other people's differences. It's the differences that make this world so awesome to live in. Believe me when I tell you I am passionate about flying. The biggest driving force in my whole life since I was a child. The shape of the windows, the type of gear, and all the other little details of airplanes that men talk about is only hiding the fact that they just don't openly share how they feel when they are in control of an airplane.

Regarding girls being confused, how the h*ll would you know. I was never confused. Always knew. Still do. I was taught to be independent and not rely on other people to fulfill my needs, wants, desires. My parents taught me that the only person that controls my life is me. Women used to be uneducated on purpose, it was considered a waste to educate them. The most amazing thing we can accomplish is educating women who make up more than 50% of the world's population. The children of the world would benefit.

So before you shoot from the hip next time spend some time actually educating yourself and understanding rather than believing everything thing you "think" is right.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
Since you have changed the subject...You need to educate yourself regarding feminism and why it came into existence and what its purpose is. It is not based on the ability to work or have sex freely. Women have been working and having sex since the begining of time. Feminism began with getting rid of the "rule of thumb" (how big the stick can be when you beat your wife because it was okay to beat your wife as long as you followed the rule), it began with having equal rights, it began with securing the ability to vote and contribute to our futures (many of those women were divorced, beaten and raped while they pursued the right to vote), it began with the right not to be raped even by our own husbands and much much more. You go on and on about the past and the roles women and men had through rose colored lenses. Life back then wasn't the way you think it was.

Yeah.. I'm down on all that too. I am all for that you said. I was discussing feminism.. 60's style... Not voting rights, rape and beating.... you're too much..

Regarding the "women are priceless" comment, in the past men married multiple women in a row (because childbirth was the leading cause of death for women) to raise the children he already had. In the present world we live in women are shunned for having breast cancer, women are shunned for not producing a male child, women are shunned for being widows, women are mutilated for having sex organs. Do some research on history and the world we live in before broadcasting your uneducated version of whe "way things were" and how things in the present should be. Feminism is about women having the same rights all human beings. It's not just your narrow view of it.

Aren't you going extreme. If you are determined to hang this on me, then educate me on the dynamics and impacts of women (or both parents)in today's work place and not at home. Meaning the breakdown of the family, increased divorce rate, drop in boys academic performance and increase in kids on behavior modifying drugs. Why is it that most kids on behavior mod drugs are boys?

Sure rape and "the thumb" rule were horrible.. and dumping chemicals into our kids is not?

We really don't like to talk about that cause we have to do so in the mirror. Sure we have advanced socially and I think we are going in the right direction, but life right now might not be the way you think it is....

I also like how everything comes down to "pootang"... Lovely...That totally convinces me you're so right about it all...Right! Whatever!

I guess you didn't take my comment the way I served it up... Meaning.. the feminist movement created a level of competitiveness in the work place between men and women, husband and wife, but at the end of the day, that was all supposed to left at work and we would go out on dates or meet back at the house and everything was luvie duvie...

But c'mon at the end of the day don't you like to snuggle... maybe get saucy??

What a judgemental person you are. How dare you say you have more passion for flying because you like the "hardware on an airplane" more than a women might. How does that translate to "passion in aviation"? There is alot more to flying than just the equipment. How small and narrow your view is, but that's no new surprise. Don't belittle what you may not understand about other people's passions just because they don't mirror yours. Be more tolerant of other people's differences. It's the differences that make this world so awesome to live in. Believe me when I tell you I am passionate about flying. The biggest driving force in my whole life since I was a child. The shape of the windows, the type of gear, and all the other little details of airplanes that men talk about is only hiding the fact that they just don't openly share how they feel when they are in control of an airplane.

I'm not judging you...why you me... I have an opinion on the matter... you don't agree... who is judging..

Why do most aviatrix's not know who is Gerry Mock?

I do think girls have it tougher. They have to study harder as pilots cause if they make a mistake its cause they are a "girl". Whereas a guy screws up and he's just another dude.. Not fair...

I support WIA.

Regarding girls being confused, how the h*ll would you know. I was never confused. Always knew. Still do. I was taught to be independent and not rely on other people to fulfill my needs, wants, desires. My parents taught me that the only person that controls my life is me. Women used to be uneducated on purpose, it was considered a waste to educate them. The most amazing thing we can accomplish is educating women who make up more than 50% of the world's population. The children of the world would benefit.

How can you say women aren't confused? Are you smokin crack.. I see so many girls in thier late 20 who have good jobs, especially women pilots and no dates! They are nervous and confused! They want to have kids but thier jobs keep them so busy they have no time for real dating...

Hows a regional girl pilot supposed to meet guys when she is gone 4 days a week? Is a 9-5 office guy understanding of that? Can you blame him if he isn't? If a girl pilot dates on the sen list she asking for trouble... it's not fair..but people talk...

And if they do finally get a nice guy the added demands of married life are tough.. add kids and it gets crazy. Have a baby and put the infant in day care at 6 weeks! That is insane. Does any mother thinks that is normal ??

And what is the deal with women pilots flying in their third trimester? What are you trying to prove!! Five point harness!!!

I think all women should go to college. Women have a different perspective and bring something to the table. To be honest the overloaded testosterone in the crewroom gets old... Women make great doctors, lawyers, pilots, teachers, managers, and of course Moms...

Although I really don't like the agenda of the American Association of University Women

So before you shoot from the hip next time spend some time actually educating yourself and understanding rather than believing everything thing you "think" is right.

I think we just disagree... Your attitude that I'm wrong is a bit too much. Ease off on the sufferage. I am on board with that... I am talking about modern day...

 

[rdy4to]

Aren't you going extreme. If you are determined to hang this on me, then educate me on the dynamics and impacts of women (or both parents)in today's work place and not at home. Meaning the breakdown of the family, increased divorce rate, drop in boys academic performance and increase in kids on behavior modifying drugs. Why is it that most kids on behavior mod drugs are boys?

Sure rape and "the thumb" rule were horrible.. and dumping chemicals into our kids is not?

We really don't like to talk about that cause we have to do so in the mirror. Sure we have advanced socially and I think we are going in the right direction, but life right now might not be the way you think it is....

Look, I don't know all the answers to the world's woes, but I do know it's not because there wasn't a parent home 24/7. Some families breakdown and some don't. That statistic that 50 % of marriages end in divorce is based on a calendar year, not over a span of time. We all know couples who are still married decades later and others that didn't even last more than a year. If you ask me personally I think the divorce rate is high because it is so easy to get married. Some counseling before hand could advert some bad marriages. The last I read boys academic performance is remaining pretty steady, but low and girls are actually rising. Regarding the behavior drugs, yes, some parents are looking for the easy way out, but who knows why it's more boys than girls. Why are more boys autistic, why are more girls depressed...I can go on and on. It's probably genetic and chemical. This isn't my field of expertise.

I guess you didn't take my comment the way I served it up... Meaning.. the feminist movement created a level of competitiveness in the work place between men and women, husband and wife, but at the end of the day, that was all supposed to left at work and we would go out on dates or meet back at the house and everything was luvie duvie...

But c'mon at the end of the day don't you like to snuggle... maybe get saucy??

Maybe it's just me, but the only person I compete with at work and at home is myself. And nothing wrong with snuggling...

Why do most aviatrix's not know who is Gerry Mock?

First woman to fly around the world and did it in a skirt. (Took me a second to figure out who she is. I suck at names. I will forget yours 5 minutes after you tell me.) And just to defend others, it wasn't until recently that a gentleman unearthed her story and made it more public knowledge.

I do think girls have it tougher. They have to study harder as pilots cause if they make a mistake its cause they are a "girl". Whereas a guy screws up and he's just another dude.. Not fair...

I support WIA.

Ain't this the truth...I've got all kinds of stories regarding bad & good pilots, men and women. Try being a checkairman for a while.

How can you say women aren't confused? Are you smokin crack.. I see so many girls in thier late 20 who have good jobs, especially women pilots and no dates! They are nervous and confused! They want to have kids but thier jobs keep them so busy they have no time for real dating...

I've never had a problem finding someone to be in a relationship. I know many, many attractive women pilots and 80% have no problem either. Some do, but that's another issue.

Hows a regional girl pilot supposed to meet guys when she is gone 4 days a week? Is a 9-5 office guy understanding of that? Can you blame him if he isn't? If a girl pilot dates on the sen list she asking for trouble... it's not fair..but people talk...

Been there, done that regarding the sen list. Didn't hurt my rep, actually helped it since I am very private with my personal life. Again, many of my friends do work for regionals. Many have gotten married, getting married, or are dating. Many from the same sen list. There's a difference with sleeping with the sen list and finding a long term relationship with someone on the list. There are both types. I know both types too.

I know women pilots married to the 9-5 guy. No matter what it takes a special someone to be married the pilot lifestyle (or military).

And if they do finally get a nice guy the added demands of married life are tough.. add kids and it gets crazy. Have a baby and put the infant in day care at 6 weeks! That is insane. Does any mother thinks that is normal ??

The craziness depends on the couple and the companies they work for. Most friends on maternaty leave did not go back at six weeks unless the company forced them to. Again, no one's kids are in day care. Maybe it's different for the pilots you know. The worst stories I hear are from women who work the more traditional jobs, 9-5. And those jobs make it even harder for the fathers to take time off to spend with the baby.

And what is the deal with women pilots flying in their third trimester? What are you trying to prove!! Five point harness!!!

Are you talking airline? They do not let you fly after the second trimester. One friend flew till the day before birth, but she was a CFI and the strongest, hardiest women I know.

I think all women should go to college. Women have a different perspective and bring something to the table. To be honest the overloaded testosterone in the crewroom gets old... Women make great doctors, lawyers, pilots, teachers, managers, and of course Moms...

Just about the sanest thing I've seen you write.

I think we just disagree... Your attitude that I'm wrong is a bit too much. Ease off on the sufferage. I am on board with that... I am talking about modern day...

I get it. I'll lay off, but remember that there is still a lot of the sufferage stuff still being fought all over the world.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Rez,
I had no problem finding a guy flying at the regionals. As a matter of fact, I met my sweetie at work. He is so wonderful and knows how much my career means to me that he said he would be the one to give up flying to stay home with the kids if he had to. Now, if there were more like him around, the world would be a much happier place!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

rdy4to and Mega... good points....!!

 

[81Horse]

Jerrie. Jerrie Mock. And I think you both gave her short shrift.

Though in the top 2 percent of her Mercury program graduating class, she could not be an astronaut because NASA had not determined that space travel was safe for women. She fought, along with fellow astronaut candidates, to be allowed to train alongside the men, but was finally turned away for good when then-Vice President Johnson added his response to a memo outlining the situation and the women's impressive qualifications: "Let's stop this. Now."

At the time, Cobb had already flown 64 types of aircraft, including a jet fighter. She had set records for speed, distance and absolute altitude.

She went on to do a lot of missionary work and flying in South America, among many other things. I have met her, and I think she deserves more than being used as a misspelled Trivial Pursuit question here.

</OT>

 

[rdy4to]

Jerrie. Jerrie Mock. And I think you both gave her short shrift.


She went on to do a lot of missionary work and flying in South America, among many other things. I have met her, and I think she deserves more than being used as a misspelled Trivial Pursuit question here.

</OT>

No disrespect meant here. I did say I was terrible with names. I read her story in one of my women avation magazines and I think saying that I know about her accomplishment is not giving her short thrift. Remembering people and their accomplishments is the ultimate compliment. What she did was amazing especially with the equipment she had. Again sorry if I offended.

 

[81Horse]

Again sorry if I offended.

You didn't, really. "Short shrift" was too strong -- it's nice to see her remembered in any way (but I did want to make sure we got her name right).

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=754902#post754902