Tsa Gj Loa Results

[flyer172r]

First of all, what carriers are hiring right now (besides SWA or JetBlue) that will allow you to live the life you want? Second of all, I got the same email BoilerUp got, just because they're not on campus right now doesn't mean they're not actively recruiting. Most of the recent graduates already have jobs, so they can't take the offer. So the next group of "fresh meat" will graduate in December, so around then GJ will be on campus. How do I know they're actively recruiting? Because I've confirmed this with people who are currently on campus, people who I've talked to about GJ and the danger it poses. The word is getting around.

And I really don't see how you can make your argument about dropping the United 70 seat flying because "we can't do it at the price we bid if you guys fly it." Heck, since the GJ contract with United started before they were operating, TSA has been doing their flying for over a month now! (Still want to buy into that "seperate company" crap). I can maybe buy your argument if GJ offers absolutely horrible pay scales (of course nobody can find, or seems to want to post, GJ's pay rates), and we asked for higher rates. But why would that prohibit them from sitting down and negotiating with their own pilots, who have worked hard for the company and deserve to be a part of its future growth.

Because of the real reason they want to run GJ without us. It's why they're excluding us, and it's why we're fighting this. We're not crying over not flying the "exciting 70-seat jets." We're fighting so that management doesn't get away with starting another carrier and using it to hurt us in upcoming contract negotiations.

 

[pipejockey]

Well as I said, I for one, would work at GJ in a heartbeat if it were as captain, but as far as GJ hurting you in contract negotiations, I think you are worrying over spilled milk because they won't. If TSA pilots went on strike I surely would refuse to fly any route that TSA did. You should have more faith. I'm just saying you guys need not take it out on the people who are currently, or in the future may work for GJ. They are not out to get you all! They just want to either work or better their lives and future prospects.

 

[Tarzan]

Pipejockey, were you waiting for a reply? You were pretty quick on the other GJ thread also. I'm betting your already one of them. Whats it like to wear your badge backward at the training center and the airport?

 

[pipejockey]

Pipejockey, were you waiting for a reply? You were pretty quick on the other GJ thread also. I'm betting your already one of them. Whats it like to wear your badge backward at the training center and the airport?

Nope, just perusing this fine message board listening to the largest group of whiners around. And also nope, I am not employed by GJ.

 

[flyer172r]

How can you say they won't hurt us in negotiations? Look at the past few years, Mesa and Freedom, CHQ and Republic. Every CHQ and Mesa pilot I've talked to have said to fight GJ because their alter-ego (or whatever you want to call it) battles cost them a lot when they negotiated their current contracts. If GJ grows without one seniority list, all of TSA's current United flying, potentially the remaining USAir flying has the potential to be given to GJ (at the very least management can threaten to do that if the pilot group doesn't agree to what they want in a new contract). The American flying isn't enough to keep TSA as big as it is, and a lot of people will be out on the street.

I can't blame someone for trying to improve their lot in life or put food on the table, but there are better ways to do that then by going to GJ and screwing over the TSA pilots. They may not hurt us today, or next week, but they will starting next summer. They may not even want to hurt us, but management does and they're playing those guys like a fiddle.

 

[pipejockey]

Freedom was created while Mesa was in negotiations and was clearly used to intimidate the Mesa pilots. I feel the creation of GJ was initiated by other factors not associated with TSA pilots. Freedom was created when I was in a position where I would have taken any airline job, but It didn't take me long to dismiss any thoughts I had of going there. I truly feel this is different. I think the bottom line is that life isn't always fair. We all get screwed sometime, I surely have!

 

[BoilerUP]

I think the bottom line is that life isn't always fair. We all get screwed sometime, I surely have!

So that makes it okay to screw other people, to profit off of their hard work?

 

[210FR8DOG]

Hey cockjockey, let me break it down for you. If your ditch digging company is paying you $8 an hour to dig ditches, and the owner starts a second company that is only paying $7 an hour to dig ditches, eventually the new company will get all the new ditch digging business. When you finish your current ditch digging project, you will be out of a job or go to work for less money($7 an hour) for the new company. Now as long as there are plenty of people willing to go to work digging ditches for $7 an hour, the company wins and all the workers lose because the next step is to start a third company and pay $6 an hour. So all the high and mighty $7 an hour workers will now be out of a job or go to work for the third new company at $6 an hour. Are you getting this? I hope I kept it simple enough for you to understand. The point is this, in the end, one of the last companies formed is paying $0 an hour and the mighty $1 an hour worker will either be out of a job or go to work for the newest company making $0 an hour. And that's when it hits ya. If you still don't understand, I'm sure one of the hundreds of other pilots on this site who understand what is going on here will be glad to explain it to you in their own words that maybe you can relate to better.

 

[tjsatter]

yeah, and they can then get folks to PAY them for the privelige of logging jet time. Some 500 hour wonder with 25 MEL will gladly pay them $10,000 to log 100 hours of SIC time in a JET. They can turn the pilot group into a profit center.

Don't laugh, they've tried it before. Once upon a time TSA (and others) had an arrangement with Flight Safety wherein you gave FS $10,000 for a checkout in a J32 and then got a job that paid 13,000 the first year, It weren't that long ago.

tj

 

[flyer172r]

Freedom was created while Mesa was in negotiations and was clearly used to intimidate the Mesa pilots. I feel the creation of GJ was initiated by other factors not associated with TSA pilots.

What other factors? Like the factor that unlike Mesa and Freedom, TSA's negotiations won't start until GJ is up and running? It would seem that would make GJ more of a threat to TSA pilots (disclaimer: previous comment not made to belittle to threat Freedom presented to Mesa. Please don't send me scrambling for the flamesuit )

 

[KingKong2]

Because of the real reason they want to run GJ without us. It's why they're excluding us, and it's why we're fighting this. We're not crying over not flying the "exciting 70-seat jets." We're fighting so that management doesn't get away with starting another carrier and using it to hurt us in upcoming contract negotiations.

"We ARE FIGHTING...." Thats the problem with ALPA. ALPA only cares about their 2%. Thats why they gave you that POS to get control of the GJ flying. Instead of fighting, why not work with the IBT. The only way to end the "whipsaw", if there is any, is to work together.... NOT fight. If the IBT can get a good CBA for GJ, and ALPA can focus on their CBA in SEC 6 and get a good CBA. Then the Industry will be better off than if ALPA fights and signs a deal just to get the flying and get their 2%. UNION is UNION. STOP fighting and work together. That is the ONLY way to get the best outcome. Right now with all the fighting Mngt is the only one wining anything.


210RR8DOG and BOILERUP... everyong is sick of hearing you 1000hours wonders. Why do you think you know everything? You are LOW time and NEW to the Industry. Pipey little kids like you give the rest of the Proffesional Pilots at TSA and other REGIONALS a bad name. When you get 7000+hours, MOMMY stops paying your bills and you have a family and a real life outside of this website, then come back and post with the knowledge you have gained. Until then SHUT your PIPEY WHINEY MOUTHS.

 

[redbook]

"We ARE FIGHTING...." Thats the problem with ALPA. ALPA only cares about their 2%. Thats why they gave you that POS to get control of the GJ flying. Instead of fighting, why not work with the IBT. The only way to end the "whipsaw", if there is any, is to work together.... NOT fight. If the IBT can get a good CBA for GJ, and ALPA can focus on their CBA in SEC 6 and get a good CBA. Then the Industry will be better off than if ALPA fights and signs a deal just to get the flying and get their 2%. UNION is UNION. STOP fighting and work together. That is the ONLY way to get the best outcome. Right now with all the fighting Mngt is the only one wining anything.


210RR8DOG and BOILERUP... everyong is sick of hearing you 1000hours wonders. Why do you think you know everything? You are LOW time and NEW to the Industry. Pipey little kids like you give the rest of the Proffesional Pilots at TSA and other REGIONALS a bad name. When you get 7000+hours, MOMMY stops paying your bills and you have a family and a real life outside of this website, then come back and post with the knowledge you have gained. Until then SHUT your PIPEY WHINEY MOUTHS.

Dan, I remember when you were a new hire. Stop lecturing "low time" pilots, they have more common sense and integrity than you ever had or will, whatever is in your logbook or theirs.

Working together? Are you high? By creating the whipsaw airline that is driving down tsa wages and qol after years and years of hard work building an airline? Your idea of "teamwork" is fantastic. Tell them at your next interview about it, and how you screwed 700 fellow pilots over, and how every last one of them can't stand the sight of you. I am sure you will get hired.

 

[BoilerUP]

210RR8DOG and BOILERUP... everyong is sick of hearing you 1000hours wonders. Why do you think you know everything? You are LOW time and NEW to the Industry. Pipey little kids like you give the rest of the Proffesional Pilots at TSA and other REGIONALS a bad name. When you get 7000+hours, MOMMY stops paying your bills and you have a family and a real life outside of this website, then come back and post with the knowledge you have gained. Until then SHUT your PIPEY WHINEY MOUTHS.

Nice edit there hoss...

I've had this discussion with you and fuelflow before. You insult me for having low time, for being new to the industry, for being a "pipey little kid" but you pay absolutey no attention to the professional integrity to which I speak. You keep badmouthing ALPA, the TSA MEC, TSA pilots and everybody else while failing to understand you are part of the problem. You are the whipsaw. You could have contributed to the benefit of the entire TSA pilot group, but you chose not to. You got your upgrade and four stripes and to hell with everybody else below you, right?

Your actions directly affect not only me, but everybody currently flying at the regional level and everybody behind me trying to come up. So yes, I do have a problem with that, and it doesn't take 7000+ hours to see a lack of integrity in a person, pilot or otherwise. You saying its "better for the industry" for GJ and TSA to have seperate unions is at its very least self-serving, and at the worst flat-out wrong.

Mommy doesn't pay my bills and I turned down a class date at TSA because, among other reasons, I couldn't afford the 40% pay cut. I have alot of friends at TSA that stand to get screwed by GJ, and since I'm not a part of your little experiment, I'll proudly tell everybody that listens just how bad GJ is for the industry and why they shouldn't consider going there. If you don't want to read my posts, ignore me...but I'm doing more for the "good of the industry" than you ever did, and I'm not going away.

 

[KingKong2]

I have alot of friends at TSA that stand to get screwed by GJ, and since I'm not a part of your little experiment, I'll proudly tell everybody that listens just how bad GJ is for the industry and why they shouldn't consider going there. If you don't want to read my posts, ignore me...but I'm doing more for the "good of the industry" than you ever did, and I'm not going away.

Your friends probably have less than 5 years with the company and so were offered two oppertunities to come to GJ with full senority....

 

[KingKong2]

Dan, I remember when you were a new hire. Stop lecturing "low time" pilots, they have more common sense and integrity than you ever had or will, whatever is in your logbook or theirs.

redbook..... you keep calling me DAN....for the record my names is not DAN. I never will be DAN. I don't even know who you are and I have never worked for TSA. So stop saying I am someone I am not. KingKong2 has nothing to do with my name. It was the only thing I could think of when signing up for this site. Because I had just downloaded the ATRI King Kong Game and had been playing it.

 

[tjsatter]

redbook..... you keep calling me DAN....for the record my names is not DAN. I never will be DAN. I don't even know who you are and I have never worked for TSA. So stop saying I am someone I am not. KingKong2 has nothing to do with my name. It was the only thing I could think of when signing up for this site. Because I had just downloaded the ATRI King Kong Game and had been playing it.

Go back to your video games little girl.

 

[pipejockey]

Hey cockjockey, let me break it down for you. If your ditch digging company is paying you $8 an hour to dig ditches, and the owner starts a second company that is only paying $7 an hour to dig ditches, eventually the new company will get all the new ditch digging business. When you finish your current ditch digging project, you will be out of a job or go to work for less money($7 an hour) for the new company. Now as long as there are plenty of people willing to go to work digging ditches for $7 an hour, the company wins and all the workers lose because the next step is to start a third company and pay $6 an hour. So all the high and mighty $7 an hour workers will now be out of a job or go to work for the third new company at $6 an hour. Are you getting this? I hope I kept it simple enough for you to understand. The point is this, in the end, one of the last companies formed is paying $0 an hour and the mighty $1 an hour worker will either be out of a job or go to work for the newest company making $0 an hour. And that's when it hits ya. If you still don't understand, I'm sure one of the hundreds of other pilots on this site who understand what is going on here will be glad to explain it to you in their own words that maybe you can relate to better.

I agree with this scenario except the GJ pilots will not be paid less than TSA. They will probably be paid a little more. It certainly won't be significant, I mean we are only talking about 16 more seats.

Now lets take your scenario and look at it from another perspective. Don't you think the mainline pilots should be speaking about all of you regional and LCC pilots as you all are speaking about GJers? What should the 8000 or so mainline pilots out of work be thinking when they see an RJ flying a route they once did in a DC9, 727,737,F100 etc. Or the expansion taking place at JB,SWA,AirTran, and the like. Just as you described to me, companies offering a cheaper product due in part to inadaquate pay. And before an SWA type chimes in about being the highest paid 737 pilots in the country, think about why you are. Because you brought everyone else down instead of climbing up and surpassing where they were. It's hard to be proud of that.

 

[theo]

To those critical of people who are down on Go-Jet, you really should not
be surprised at their vehemence. It looks like the only way for them to have any kind of impact on Go-Jet is through the spreading of anti Go-Jet rhetoric in hopes they can affect Go-Jets ability to hire people. If their union representatives really felt that there was a case for TSA pilots against Go-Jet I think we would be seeing a whole lot more from ALPA on this subject besides a couple of pilot rallys. It appears Go-Jet is about to take off in a big way and I can't blame these guys for being a little envious that they are not included, but just because someone wants something badly does not mean they have a right to it. That is called negotiations and apparently there was not enough successful negotiations at TSA to include Go-Jet or others like it in flying TSA pilots would do. TSA pilots should learn from your mistakes and make sure to not repeat them in the future.

 

[BoilerUP]

Classic "turn the argument around" tactic, and that dog don't hunt.

Don't you think the mainline pilots should be speaking about all of you regional and LCC pilots as you all are speaking about GJers?

They do; just go look at the Majors board. Most regional pilots realize they are part of the problem (look at Nimitz's profile). RJs have been used throughout the industry to replace NB equipment. TSA is but one carrier to have benefited from this mainline drawdown...Comair, ASA, Skywest, AWAC, Chautauqua, Mesa, PSA, etc the list goes on and on. Who else is benefitting from this reduction in mainline flying? BLOWJET pilots who are flying 70 seat (or 66, whatever) airplanes. The 70 seat airframe is much closer to mainline sized equipment than the 50 seat is. "But its only 16 more seats" you say...GJ pilots are flying an airplane that seats just as many as a F28 or DC-9-10 for less than half the pay. You are right - all regional pilots are part of the problem. Why GJ pilots make the conscience decision to perpetuate the problem of stealing mainline routes with larger and larger "regional jets" while destroying unity is beyond us all.

Oh wait, we know why they do it - because they can get a fast upgrade and fly bigger airplanes. GJ pilots are getting theirs, at the expense of not only TSA pilots who helped earn the profits used to start Blowjets with their hard work, but the furloughed mainline pilots who their CR7s are replacing.

Making your point with an argument like you did is worthless.

They will probably be paid a little more. It certainly won't be significant, I mean we are only talking about 16 more seats.

We are all waiting with baited breath to see if it is less than what TSA had previously negotiated, and I hope you never work for my airline's negotiating committee with an attitude like that.

 

[flyer172r]

That is called negotiations and apparently there was not enough successful negotiations at TSA to include Go-Jet or others like it in flying TSA pilots would do. TSA pilots should learn from your mistakes and make sure to not repeat them in the future.

Hard to negotiate with a management team that won't even talk to you. And before you say "oh they made an offer"....one single offer does not a negotiation make. Management has flat out refused to play ball with its own pilots over this issue, which is why the pilots are trying to take things further with picketing