Tsa Gj Loa Results

[tjsatter]

redbook..... you keep calling me DAN....for the record my names is not DAN. I never will be DAN. I don't even know who you are and I have never worked for TSA. So stop saying I am someone I am not. KingKong2 has nothing to do with my name. It was the only thing I could think of when signing up for this site. Because I had just downloaded the ATRI King Kong Game and had been playing it.

Go back to your video games little girl.

 

[pipejockey]

Hey cockjockey, let me break it down for you. If your ditch digging company is paying you $8 an hour to dig ditches, and the owner starts a second company that is only paying $7 an hour to dig ditches, eventually the new company will get all the new ditch digging business. When you finish your current ditch digging project, you will be out of a job or go to work for less money($7 an hour) for the new company. Now as long as there are plenty of people willing to go to work digging ditches for $7 an hour, the company wins and all the workers lose because the next step is to start a third company and pay $6 an hour. So all the high and mighty $7 an hour workers will now be out of a job or go to work for the third new company at $6 an hour. Are you getting this? I hope I kept it simple enough for you to understand. The point is this, in the end, one of the last companies formed is paying $0 an hour and the mighty $1 an hour worker will either be out of a job or go to work for the newest company making $0 an hour. And that's when it hits ya. If you still don't understand, I'm sure one of the hundreds of other pilots on this site who understand what is going on here will be glad to explain it to you in their own words that maybe you can relate to better.

I agree with this scenario except the GJ pilots will not be paid less than TSA. They will probably be paid a little more. It certainly won't be significant, I mean we are only talking about 16 more seats.

Now lets take your scenario and look at it from another perspective. Don't you think the mainline pilots should be speaking about all of you regional and LCC pilots as you all are speaking about GJers? What should the 8000 or so mainline pilots out of work be thinking when they see an RJ flying a route they once did in a DC9, 727,737,F100 etc. Or the expansion taking place at JB,SWA,AirTran, and the like. Just as you described to me, companies offering a cheaper product due in part to inadaquate pay. And before an SWA type chimes in about being the highest paid 737 pilots in the country, think about why you are. Because you brought everyone else down instead of climbing up and surpassing where they were. It's hard to be proud of that.

 

[theo]

To those critical of people who are down on Go-Jet, you really should not
be surprised at their vehemence. It looks like the only way for them to have any kind of impact on Go-Jet is through the spreading of anti Go-Jet rhetoric in hopes they can affect Go-Jets ability to hire people. If their union representatives really felt that there was a case for TSA pilots against Go-Jet I think we would be seeing a whole lot more from ALPA on this subject besides a couple of pilot rallys. It appears Go-Jet is about to take off in a big way and I can't blame these guys for being a little envious that they are not included, but just because someone wants something badly does not mean they have a right to it. That is called negotiations and apparently there was not enough successful negotiations at TSA to include Go-Jet or others like it in flying TSA pilots would do. TSA pilots should learn from your mistakes and make sure to not repeat them in the future.

 

[BoilerUP]

Classic "turn the argument around" tactic, and that dog don't hunt.

Don't you think the mainline pilots should be speaking about all of you regional and LCC pilots as you all are speaking about GJers?

They do; just go look at the Majors board. Most regional pilots realize they are part of the problem (look at Nimitz's profile). RJs have been used throughout the industry to replace NB equipment. TSA is but one carrier to have benefited from this mainline drawdown...Comair, ASA, Skywest, AWAC, Chautauqua, Mesa, PSA, etc the list goes on and on. Who else is benefitting from this reduction in mainline flying? BLOWJET pilots who are flying 70 seat (or 66, whatever) airplanes. The 70 seat airframe is much closer to mainline sized equipment than the 50 seat is. "But its only 16 more seats" you say...GJ pilots are flying an airplane that seats just as many as a F28 or DC-9-10 for less than half the pay. You are right - all regional pilots are part of the problem. Why GJ pilots make the conscience decision to perpetuate the problem of stealing mainline routes with larger and larger "regional jets" while destroying unity is beyond us all.

Oh wait, we know why they do it - because they can get a fast upgrade and fly bigger airplanes. GJ pilots are getting theirs, at the expense of not only TSA pilots who helped earn the profits used to start Blowjets with their hard work, but the furloughed mainline pilots who their CR7s are replacing.

Making your point with an argument like you did is worthless.

They will probably be paid a little more. It certainly won't be significant, I mean we are only talking about 16 more seats.

We are all waiting with baited breath to see if it is less than what TSA had previously negotiated, and I hope you never work for my airline's negotiating committee with an attitude like that.

 

[flyer172r]

That is called negotiations and apparently there was not enough successful negotiations at TSA to include Go-Jet or others like it in flying TSA pilots would do. TSA pilots should learn from your mistakes and make sure to not repeat them in the future.

Hard to negotiate with a management team that won't even talk to you. And before you say "oh they made an offer"....one single offer does not a negotiation make. Management has flat out refused to play ball with its own pilots over this issue, which is why the pilots are trying to take things further with picketing

 

[medic&cfi]

redbook..... you keep calling me DAN....for the record my names is not DAN. I never will be DAN. I don't even know who you are and I have never worked for TSA. So stop saying I am someone I am not. KingKong2 has nothing to do with my name. It was the only thing I could think of when signing up for this site. Because I had just downloaded the ATRI King Kong Game and had been playing it.

DAN:

How did you know that the King in KingKong2 led anyone to believe that you're Dan? As in DK, the GJ scum.

 

[theo]

Hard to negotiate with a management team that won't even talk to you. And before you say "oh they made an offer"....one single offer does not a negotiation make. Management has flat out refused to play ball with its own pilots over this issue, which is why the pilots are trying to take things further with picketing

I don't understand that. If you had something to vote on than that is the culmination of a negotiation...not part of the negotiations themselves. So if you are voting then there was a negotiation. I think you are referring to this weeks vote where the TSA pilots voted to reject the offer to gain scope over Go-Jet. If that is what you were referring to then I would ask what did you expect, a resounding no vote followed by a humbled company putting forth a better offer? That would only have happened if the company felt that their position with the courts or the NMB was weak. As has been discussed on here many times before the pilots position is weak not strong which was the point of my original post about negotiations. When you did your original contract and talked about scope your negotiators were not very thorough in protecting your interests. While that sucks for the pilots at Trans States it means that you probably will lose any neutral arbitration or court hearing that may occur on this. Sorry!

 

[great cornholio]

I agree with this scenario except the GJ pilots will not be paid less than TSA. They will probably be paid a little more. It certainly won't be significant, I mean we are only talking about 16 more seats.

They don't get block or better so even if hourly rate is more they will still take a pay cut overall.

 

[fuelflow]

Unfortunately, the root cause of this problem was a back-room 2 year contract extension (pilots did not vote) made by management and the TSA MEC. Had that not been done, TSA pilots would be making a strike vote right now and thus would be dictating the terms for both TSA and GJ. That was a huge error made by their MEC and is one reason some left TSA for GJ. TSA pilots have long been misled by their MEC.

Instead of taking responsibility for their screwup, they decide to wage war with GJ pilots, many of whom are furloughed mainline pilots. Now it seems even ALPA national will no longer campaign against GJ or their pilots.

 

[redbook]

Unfortunately, the root cause of this problem was a back-room 2 year contract extension (pilots did not vote) made by management and the TSA MEC. Had that not been done, TSA pilots would be making a strike vote right now and thus would be dictating the terms for both TSA and GJ. That was a huge error made by their MEC and is one reason some left TSA for GJ. TSA pilots have long been misled by their MEC.

Instead of taking responsibility for their screwup, they decide to wage war with GJ pilots, many of whom are furloughed mainline pilots. Now it seems even ALPA national will no longer campaign against GJ or their pilots.

Busy morning keeping up with your lies. Again, another false argument. Pilots were screwed over, supposedly, so thence they screw over an even larger (actually every one of their fellow pilots and pilots at all other regionals)group of their fellow pilots. If that sounds good, then go to g0jet!

As for alpa national's response, stay tuned. And you will be held accountable for your actions.

 

[fuelflow]

I've been staying tuned to ALPA national for several months now. Woerth already told you guys the sobering news of their legal position.

And please be specific when accusing me of lying.

 

[redbook]

I've been staying tuned to ALPA national for several months now. Woerth already told you guys the sobering news of their legal position.

And please be specific when accusing me of lying.

because you are not doing anything illegal by joining g0jet, does that make it the right thing to do? The lie I was referring to was your statement that alpa national has abandoned the fight against g0jet. That are plenty of legal things you can do that will earn the animosity of pilots, but perhaps none more so than joining with a management team to create an alter ego outfit to whipsaw the hard working members of an established airline. You never address the basic premise of g0jet and why you are now complicit with one of the worst management teams in the business. Only thing you didn't count on, was that they were going to screw you over just as quick.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That are plenty of legal things you can do that will earn the animosity of pilots, but perhaps none more so than joining with a management team to create an alter ego outfit to whipsaw the hard working members of an established airline.

You mean like ALPA and APA have joined with management to create alter ego outfits. Freedom, Republic, MidAtlantic, and G0jts are all alter ego carriers that were created to either get around mainline scope clauses or mainline jets4jobs provisions. Tell me, what is ALPA's definition of "alter-ego"?

Joe

 

[redbook]

You mean like ALPA and APA have joined with management to create alter ego outfits. Freedom, Republic, MidAtlantic, and G0jts are all alter ego carriers that were created to either get around mainline scope clauses or mainline jets4jobs provisions. Tell me, what is ALPA's definition of "alter-ego"?

Joe

I knew that someone would make this argument....so effectively we should all just throw in the towel and say f!ck it. Trans States is one company being divided by managment into two. Pilots have worked for years at tsa only to see their career progressions stopped by the whipsaw. Period. Simple. Now lets bring every other issue in aviation and throw it into this mess, confuse everyone and muddy the waters.

 

[theo]

So what's the scoop? Has there been a second offer yet from the company?