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Trouble at AMR

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dual, thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree that the most likely outcome will have one winner and two losers (If Carty, Bethune and Mullin have their way, we all lose).

A true "one list" concept would require the trust and cooperation of all three parties concerned. If only ALL three parties had that courage, there would be no losers.

My feeling is that the most likely winner has never demonstrated that type of courage before and the Tiger is unlikely to change its "stripes" now.

Not with the REAL potential to eliminate corporate risk from organized labor once-and-for-all.

2003 going to bumpier ride than 2002.

*bing*

"please fasten seat belts".
 
Eaglefly--

For the most part, I agree with you. A true onelist is not being proposed. I also believe a true onelist would be better than what we have now, and better than what we are proposing. I was disappointed when I read the proposal highlights and saw that this is just an advanced flow-thru with a few more bells and whistles. But I think a true onelist isn't possible with the crooks running AMR right now. So, APA has to make adjustments to accomplish our goal, which is to eliminate whipsawing and outsourcing.

Where I think we disagree is about whether this proposal is better for Eagle and American pilots than the system we currently have. I gather you don't think that it is. I believe that if this proposal is accepted by AMR, as is, (which it won't) APA pilots will benefit more than Eagle pilots, but I think Eagle folks will still benefit.

As I've said before, almost anything that releases you from that sixteen year contract has got to be good. Also, Eagle has serious outsourcing problems, not just AA. The entire SJU operation is about to be unloaded, not to mention the unAmerican Connection carriers. Do you think that this race to the lowest bidder will end in STL? This proposal stops that, *and* has pay-raises for the Eagle flying...

I know that under this new-fangled flow through, Eagle guys face a few years of stagnation, since all vacancies go to AA furloughs first. But what are you facing now? Where will the vacancies be when SJU is sold? Where will the vacancies be when Uncle Don cuts a deal with a dirtbag like Jonathan Ornstein for half of the RJ flying? Isn't industry-leading pay better than the industry average of several years ago?

Again, I'd prefer a straight SSL. But it ain't gonna happen at AMR. APA doesn't have the capital or leverage to force it through. But I think the positives this deal would solve a bunch of Eagle's problems, and the negatives are ones you are struggling against anyway.

I'm the first to admit that I'm no expert on any of the issues involved here, so if I'm way off base, please let me know.

Of course, like you said, none of this matters if S.1347 passes. Remember: every dollar of fuel you save is one more dollar available for Carty to stuff in Trent Lott's g-string! :D
 
Don't know what it means, but heard a vicious rumor today that management is going to announce this week that we're NOT selling Executive. Did something give on turboprop ASMs?
 
I've just read a copy of Carty's letter to Darrah dated today. Why would Carty fire this across the bow of the APA if the "one list" scenario was progressing and had real potential.

I think AMR is "milking" the current situation to buy more time. For EXACTLY what is the question.

It seems clear that AMR feels that MASSIVE (similar to UAL and U) pay/work rule/benefit changes are the only thing that will keep AMR out of bankruptcy (which is just ANOTHER of the many options they have to shape their airlines (plural) as they see fit).

It seems appparent that one way or another they will be successful in acheiving their goals.

Assuming this, one question is : What will a "mainline new-hire" position look like in 5 years or so when they would be likely to become available ?

Many of our senior pilots (15-25 years of seniority), elected not to gamble with the remainder of their careers (via the flow-thru) for a low seniority position that would take several years on mainline property to cancel out the losses in pay (not to mention the loss of job security).

Under the CURRENT proposal, the most senior of our pilots could be very well forced into substantial pay cuts with a schedule that could take MANY years to cancel out (many of whom would either NEVER see mainline captain, at best , or at worst by future changes enacted by the APA that could have them furloughed to make room for extremely junior mainline pilots to displace into their current positions). In fact, with the extreme cloudiness and ambiguity of the "flow-thru" provisions, future mainline new-hires who have yet to be hired could concievably be the ones bumping a 20 year Eagle captain to a "supplimental" F/O position.


The potential future of the "average" 5-year Eagle F/O ?

I shudder to even think of it.

Thats my REAL point. The CURRENT proposal is designed to do one thing : Meet the needs of the APA and the pilots it represents.

Sadly, it would place us (the Eagle pilots) in much greater potential jeopardy than we are in now, unless the proper protections were included in ANY agreement.

Why ?

Because although we have a contract that will keep us squarly in the "middle" of regional pay and benefits, we at least have some say and contractual protections via our CBA and the resources of ALPA.

Once we agree to "hand over our store", we are at the whim of an entity (and majority pilot group) that can modify and alter ANY previous agreement to benefit that "majority".

Great risk with the potential for questionable reward (kinda like aiming your golf shot through two close trees to save 50 yards when you can chip around them to a clear point on the fairway).

* I've done this and it usually fails.

While it's disappointing to see the APA take this approach after all the "supposed" unification that the two unions represented that was occuring as of late, I can't neccesarily fault them for attempting to act to maximize their members position.

It would also be just as unrealistic to believe that our MEC and pilot group would not take note of this move and reassert our position regarding what we to believe to be our rights and protections with regard to the language in our contract.

While we still have rights and protections.

Up until that proposal was revealed, most of us here believed that the past differences and difficulties were successfully being put aside and that we could be partners in the future of AA/Eagle.

When it came out, it (from our standpoint) lends creedance that sadly, nothing has really changed about the feeling of the APA towards the pilots of Eagle.

It has solidified a whole new foundation of mistrust and suspicion.

The benficiary ?

AMR.

A step backward for our pilot groups, indeed.

I can count seven freinds who currently fly for AA (2 flow-thru's), three of which are captains. I have had conversations with them to various degree. They all believe that a TRUE "one list" scenario is the ONLY way to solve the problem once and for all. They all honestly understand the concerns I've raised about protections for current Eagle pilots. They also were unaware of some of the language in our contract that makes any acquision of our operations more difficult than it would seem.

Perhaps AMR sees too many obstacles (and risk to them) to truly embrace the concept.

Were all an the outside waiting for the fianl result.

Again, I see one out of three getting their way.

We'll be the other two.
 
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Help requested from Carty

American Asks Staff to Keep It Flying
Thursday January 16, 7:29 pm ET
By Jon Herskovitz


DALLAS (Reuters) - American Airlines, a division of AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR - News), asked its employees on Thursday to come to the aid of the carrier, saying they have no time to waste if they want to keep the financially strapped airline in business.
ADVERTISEMENT


The plea from AMR Chairman Don Carty and American President Gerard Arpey comes as two major unions at the world's largest carrier consider a company request to freeze their wages and another union is trying to hammer out a new contract.

Company management says carriers that have reduced costs through bankruptcy protection have put even more pressure on AMR.

"Given what is at stake and the severity of our financial situation, it is critical that we -- management and labor -- work more closely than ever before in our history and intensify our efforts to find both short- and long-term solutions to save and restructure American," Carty and Arpey wrote in a letter to employees.

AMR asked union leaders to start holding weekly meetings, as early as next, week with company management in a collaborative process.

"In short, we are losing millions of dollars every day, which has forced us to borrow vast sums of money just to meet payroll and stay in business," the letter said.

"This is a time for shared sacrifices," the letter said.

The move comes as American's main rival, UAL Corp.'s (NYSE:UAL - News) United Airlines, is trying to squeeze large wage cuts from its employees as it undergoes restructuring under bankruptcy protection.

AMR said it is faced with even more pressure to reduce costs as United and US Airways have seen their costs reduced in the bankruptcy process through items such as friendlier terms for paying debts.

COMPETITORS TAKING MORE MARKET SHARE

"Even as United and USAir lower their costs, our other low-cost competitors are inching their way into more and more of our markets, putting incredible pricing pressure on American," Cart said in a separate, taped message to employees.

About a month ago, AMR asked its employees to forgo pay increases. The union that represents flight attendants at American said it is taking a close look at the company's finances and may decide at the end of this month whether to forgo pay increases scheduled for this year.

Carty said American's financial condition has worsened in several ways since the carrier asked for the wage freeze.

AMR, based in Forth Worth, Texas, is seeking to cut costs wherever it can amid huge financial losses, with a goal of about $4 billion in permanent reductions. American said it has already identified more than $2 billion in cuts as it has slashed its capacity and cut its workforce since the Sept. 11 attacks walloped the air industry.

The union that represents American's pilots has been working with management for over a year on a new contract. Talks have recently been expedited and both sides called in a federal mediator to help the process.

Union officials were not immediately available for comment.

AMR is scheduled to release its fourth quarter earning on Wednesday and has warned of severe losses.

Shares of AMR closed up 7 cents to $6.10 on the New York Stock Exchange Thursday, well below its year high of $29.20 reached last March.
 
apa letter

APA Letter
Interesting letter I got off another message board.


DMI


30 January 2003
Fellow Pilots,

Hopefully you have been reading and/or listening to each and
every message or Hotline that has come from APA National and
Kevin and me. Since you may not have had the opportunity to read what the other domicile reps have said to t**** bases pasted
below are some excerpts of what they wrote. A majority of what is attached below is compiled from messages from DFW, DCA, and MIA. The last item is a response from Captain Kudwa to one of our
pilots.

None of this is meant to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt
(FUD). Instead it is intended to make you aware of factors
affecting your airline. After reading this you can draw your own
conclusions. There are those who will accuse the APA of
managing/lowering your expectations and others who will accuse
the APA of not having done more, but the reality is the APA is
not in command of this ship. The current management team of
American Airlines has been reluctant to include us in t****
planning and decision making process during these difficult
times. The APA stands ready to work with all parties to ensure
American Airlines remains the greatest airline in the world.

Item 1.

From what you can read in your daily newspaper, it is fairly
obvious that AMR is in precarious financial shape. Fitch Ratings
has assigned AMR a credit rating of CCC+ which essentially put
AMR bonds in junk bond status. The BOD is very concerned with
AMR's future, along with our careers and families.

Cooperation:

The bottom line is AMR needs our cooperation and the cooperation
of all of the employees of AA. That cooperation would be more
forthcoming if CEO ***** immediately stopped his involvement with
CESTA and the ATA which are actively lobbying Congress for a
change in the Railway Labor Act. We see the current financial
state of AA to be one requiring all resources committed to two
main goals. First and foremost we all need to commit to the
survival of our company, American Airlines. Secondly we need to
work together to craft a plan which will make American Airlines a
viable corporation for the future and provide for the success of
our company long term. These goals cannot be achieved while the
parties fight in the halls of congress over the RLA. To coin a
phrase "We cannot have two people doing the job one man should be doing". That job is the survival and eventual success of our company.

To believe that changes in the RLA will effectively make
management and labor work together is a pipe dream. To think
that changes to the RLA will "potentially" remove the problem of
transportation disruption in the Airline Industry some time in
the future, while American Airlines is teetering on the edge of
solvency is misguided use of management's time and resources.

We must focus on the future, but we must have our current
management team focused on the same goals. We need a plan from
the current management team, and to this point they have provided
none.

Our current management team continues to request meetings with
the employees and Labor Coalition leaders. Unfortunately, this
current management team does not bring any suggestions to the
table. Rehashing the same data which is displayed in the news
paper is of no value in turning the company around. We have
serious problems, which need serious answers. Our current
management team has been asked directly "What is it you need from
us?" To date, they have answered "Nothing".

We (APA) have proposed a single airline concept. The savings and
flexibility of such a system and the synergy of putting all the
employees on the same page, working for the same company, with
the same goal are immediately evident. We face a difficult task
in providing leadership if our current management team continues
to point out the obvious without a plan to resolve the problem.
They must tell us how we can help, and provide a plan to show
such action on our part will not be squandered. The careers and
futures of our pilots are at stake. We have expended tremendous
efforts in building the labor coalition and have worked to
understand the other labor groups' issues. We (Labor Coalition)
understand the problems confronting this company, but our current
management team needs to present a plan involving more than our
current business plan, which is "more of the same".

Our Advice:

Don't make any major purchases and cut your expenditures. You
need to financially and emotionally prepare yourselves and your
families. VP Kudwa continues to state that we have a 900 pilot
surplus. Combine that with the previously announced 1245
furloughs, and the possible overage of F-100 pilots if AMR once
again changes the retirement schedule of those aircraft, and
we're looking at ** potential furloughs IF AMR attempts to
invoke Force Majeure ** in the event of a Iraqi war. We don't
wish to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) but we feel a
responsibility to relate that times are perilous. Remember your
Boy Scout motto: "Be Prepared." The situation could get very ugly
before it gets better. ** My editing **

The APA needs your help. We need volunteers for Communications Committee tasking, CommNet, SPC and local domicile volunteers. If you have writing skills, we can put you to work. Now is the time to get involved with your career. If not now, when?

Manage Your Careers!
 
This type of Rhetoric is why "management" fears it's union members. You all have come up with some stupid ideas.

Rule number one: Seniority is everything

Rule number two: If you want to work for American, get in line.

Simple as that. The relief of duplicate mangament groups, scope and aircraft limitations will be the advantage to one list. This will make your company quite versital and competitive.
Sure there would be give and take on wages but that's the advantage you have to work for you, not against you!

I hope these are just rumors gone wrong.
Keep yor Union reps away from my airline.
 
What is the "official" wording?

Edited: Since the official wording of the "one-list" was finalized last week, anyone have a copy? I thought it would have been posted here for reference.

I have no opinion either way, just curious.
 
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Where did you hear this from?

> Since the "one-list" passed last week at American, anyone
> have the finalized version? I thought it would have been
> posted here for reference.
 
AA is entertaining the possibility of "one list". I think it was about 2 weeks ago that they sent the APA a version of what they would like to see. There has been no agreement either signed or verbal on the "one list". On another note...BAD TUESDAY (2-4) is approaching. I hope the news isn't to bad!
 

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