Trouble at AMR

[eaglefly]

Just read the APA's "one list" proposal to AMR.

It appears to be a terrible deal for Eagle pilots.

As this proposal makes its way around the Eagle system over the next days and weeks it will undoubtedly drive a stake through the heart of any hope cooperation between the APA and Eagle pilots.

Thankfully, we have contractual rights that we currently do, so at least we can hold onto that.

Tragically, it appears that under the current proposal the only way for the APA to take over our flying would be to attempt to do it forcefully.

AMR wins again as AA pilots and Eagle pilots will end up back in their respective corners as adversaries.

 

[Publishers]

Evident

If anything should be evident, it is the extent that AMR will go to avoid one list in any way shape or form no matter how guised.

 

[dogg]

Eaglefly, post the proposal so the rest of us can see what those dogs at the APA are up to. Put it out to the court of public opinion, the strongest court in the land

 

[Lumber Yak]

I understand the argument that regional pilots endorse - they believe they should be included on the mainline seniority list. However, from an AMR corporate perspective, it makes more sense to have two separate bargaining groups - otherwise, the total pilot group has more negotiating leverage... Why should this be unexpected? It's intuitive from a business perspective - but not popular among pilots...

It amazes me sometimes when I hear the arrogance and irrational optimism of some regional pilots. I actually heard a Comair CRJ captain boast (and he was serious) that he should be a Delta 767 Captain in the next year or two WHEN the two seniority lists are merged... Is he on crack? Does he think the Delta pilots union would EVER allow that to happen? Short answer: not in a million years...

It's called reality - look into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to look at things from a business perspective sometimes.

 

[eaglefly]

A copy is posted at www.tsalounge.com.

APA wants to obtain control of ALL of Eagles aircraft and flying. Then it wants to see the AA mainline furloughees be the first to benefit from Eagle vacancies. Only, then APA will consider rights and protections for current Eagle pilots.

Most likely AMR won't go for it either.

Sadly, the APA has "shown their colors" and has lost the trust of the current Eagle pilot group. It will be tough to gain it back.

In any case, the Eagle pilots are now fully aware that APA's interests hold very little value for Eagle pilots and no "one list" concept could ever work unless these two groups want it to.

Thus it appears that our pilot group will refuse cooperation with them in the future.

Too bad, many here had hope for a resolution to all the outsourcing.

The only way for APA to get our flying now would be for them to forcefully attempt to get it.

Good Luck.

 

[SF3CA]

All Flying Proposal


The APA proposal on all flying suggested creating a commuter
supplement to take the place of the current commuter air carrier
exception. All commuter flying and only commuter flying would be
performed by American Airlines pilots under the commuter
supplement. Commuter supplement flying would be defined by a
seat limitation (50 seats and below), weight limitation
(certificated weight of ERJ-145) and fuselage width limitation
(width of ERJ-145).


Flying would be limited by the above definition and AA pilots
would perform the flying. The restrictions would be based on:
. A maximum hull count based on narrow body aircraft'
. Hub arrival and departure ratios;
. Hub-to-hub prohibitions with very few possible exceptions;
. Block hour limits based on narrow body block hours, and;
. All commuter supplement operations would be limited to domestic
(including Canada/Mexico) and Caribbean divisions.


Maintaining these restrictions while foregoing other restrictions
currently in place would allow management to offset cost
increases by enhancing revenue potential (50 vs. 44 seats and
fewer specific market prohibitions). At this time, APA has made
no proposals regarding the specific numbers in these restrictions.


We made no explicit proposal regarding work rules or
compensation. We told management work rules and compensation
should be industry leading when compared to other commuter
carriers. Management decided to perform comparison and analysis
of this commuter supplement operation by modeling it after the
Comm Air contract and adding a premium. That analysis is ongoing
and will be reported to APA when negotiations commence next year.


APA proposed that all American Eagle pilots become AA pilots
flying under the commuter supplement. Seniority ramifications
would be negotiated between APA and ALPA. APA also proposed the
following:


. AA pilots on furlough would have access to all small jet
vacancies in the commuter supplement and commuter supplement
pilots could not access mainline vacancies until all furloughees
are recalled to the mainline.
. Commuter supplement pilots would gain the right to exercise
mainline seniority numbers when they upgrade to Captain.
. Company could hire into either commuter supplement or mainline
vacancies.
. Commuter supplement pilots would have access to mainline at
some agreed to ratio (specific number not determined). Assumes no
mainline pilot is furloughed.
. Mainline pilots would have the option of accepting a
displacement to the commuter supplement or a furlough in a down
cycle.
. Mainline pilots could only displace into commuter supplement
Captain positions. Only pilots displaced from commuter supplement
bid statuses would have recall rights into the commuter
supplement (except all current furloughees could recall into the
commuter supplement).
. Commuter supplement pilots cannot displace into mainline bid
statuses unless they had previously held any mainline bid status.


Good luck Eagle Guys!

 

[Lumber Yak]

Irony...

I appreciate that all pilots want to protect their professional futures and ensure both job security and a good wage. But you have to agree that these inflexible scope clauses CAN'T HELP much with regard to restoring industry profits.... They seem like a real hindrance - it's ironic - pretty soon United and AMR pilots might not have airplanes to fly because of (among many reasons) their own airplane limitations... Matching supply with demand can be very profitable. Scope limitations could be a contributing factor...

Good luck to all involved!

 

[seagle]

Just read the APA proposal and wondering who will fly the 70 seat CRJ's? Since only 50 seaters were mentioned does this imply that the 70 seaters go to AA? The proposal was somewhat vague and personally I don't believe the company will go for it. Thanks in advance. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

 

[justApilot]

I really don't see it as a bad deal for those Eagle guys looking for a career with a major. FACT: Not everyone makes it to the big leagues, some will spend their entire careers in the minors. That's just the way life is. Look you get an AA number or you can stay at Eagle for the time being and hope for the best. I think that with the stagnation at the majors that recalls won't even start for 5+ years. Then you have to figure it will take a few more maybe another 5 years to get hired with a major if you are one of the lucky few. That is 7-10 years away my friends. 7-10 years. Life is all about making decisions. This is your window of opportunity Eagle. Take it. You May never get another chance.

But what do I know...I am just a pilot!

This post is not meant to be the start of an us against them pissing contest. Good luck to everyone.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Management decided to perform comparison and analysis
of this commuter supplement operation by modeling it after the
Comm Air contract and adding a premium.

Who the hell is Comm Air? I have heard of Comair, in fact I use to work there. Has the APA heard of proofreading?