Tough Choice--SWA or UPS?

[TonyC]

..., freight pilots are a whole lot easier to replace with foreigners or scabs than passenger pilots are.

I've got a life-size picture of the Teamsters turning a wheel when UPS tries to fly their airplanes with scabs.











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[WillowRunVortex]

"I've got a life-size picture of the Teamsters turning a wheel when UPS tries to fly their airplanes with scabs"


They already did it in 97 or 98. I remember all the charter guys praying that they wouldnt get called to go to UPS, because the Teamsters had wrongly put out a statement that chartered airplane pilots would be considered scabs. What a load of crap that was.

 

[TonyC]

"I've got a life-size picture of the Teamsters turning a wheel when UPS tries to fly their airplanes with scabs"


They already did it in 97 or 98. I remember all the charter guys praying that they wouldnt get called to go to UPS, because the Teamsters had wrongly put out a statement that chartered airplane pilots would be considered scabs. What a load of crap that was.

Fall of '97, Teamsters struck. Only a handful of airplanes moved during that three weeks, and they were flown by management pilots. Pilots who flew struck work are scabs.

As I said, no Teamster turned a wheel.


If the IPA strikes, Teamsters will support it. Period.





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[WillowRunVortex]

Fall of '97, Teamsters struck. Only a handful of airplanes moved during that three weeks, and they were flown by management pilots. Pilots who flew struck work are scabs.

As I said, no Teamster turned a wheel.


If the IPA strikes, Teamsters will support it. Period.





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Pilots of chartered aircraft who flew for UPS then were not scabs. Would the Teamsters have paid their salaries when they would have been fired by their company for refusing a trip?

 

[TonyC]

Pilots of chartered aircraft who flew for UPS then were not scabs. Would the Teamsters have paid their salaries when they would have been fired by their company for refusing a trip?

I don't know what your purpose is in bragging that contract pilots flew UPS freight during the Teamsters strike of '97, unless you were one of them. Since there were no Teamsters driving UPS trucks to deliver UPS freight, any charters would have been irrelevant anyway.


Please read my original statement, evaluate its meaning, and then determine if you have any argument with it.


Simplified, and for your review:


If and when IPA strikes, UPS Teamsters will not turn a wheel.






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[WillowRunVortex]

I don't know what your purpose is in bragging that contract pilots flew UPS freight during the Teamsters strike of '97, unless you were one of them. Since there were no Teamsters driving UPS trucks to deliver UPS freight, any charters would have been irrelevant anyway.


Please read my original statement, evaluate its meaning, and then determine if you have any argument with it.


Simplified, and for your review:


If and when IPA strikes, UPS Teamsters will not turn a wheel.






.

My point is, If and when IPA strikes, there will be alot of younger charter guys who will be assigned to fly trips for UPS. There choice will be to refuse the trip and get fired or be wrongly acused of being a scab, and told about future ramifications to their career's. Which, I dont think is fair in anybody's book, and a load of B.S.

 

[410dude]

My point is, If and when IPA strikes, there will be alot of younger charter guys who will be assigned to fly trips for UPS. There choice will be to refuse the trip and get fired or be wrongly acused of being a scab, and told about future ramifications to their career's. Which, I dont think is fair in anybody's book, and a load of B.S.

Sounds like you are chomping at the bit to go fly struck UPS work if they strike. And yes you would be a scab if you fly UPS struck work. Maybe you are trying to make points with UPS management in hopes that they will hire you as a manager someday. I for one, want to make it a major the proper way. You can do whatever you like.

 

[enigma]

My point is, If and when IPA strikes, there will be alot of younger charter guys who will be assigned to fly trips for UPS. There choice will be to refuse the trip and get fired or be wrongly acused of being a scab, and told about future ramifications to their career's. Which, I dont think is fair in anybody's book, and a load of B.S.

I think that Tonys trying to say that there won't be a need for any young charter guys if IPA strikes because the trucks won't be running. No trucks, no boxes, therefore no airplanes.

enigma

 

[Below Mins]

My point is, If and when IPA strikes, there will be alot of younger charter guys who will be assigned to fly trips for UPS. There choice will be to refuse the trip and get fired or be wrongly acused of being a scab

You said it yourself -- they do have a choice. Maintain your integrity or SCAB, seems simple to me.

Moving struck goods = SCAB! Nothing "wrong" about that accusation as you seem to imply.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

You said it yourself -- they do have a choice. Maintain your integrity or SCAB, seems simple to me.

Moving struck goods = SCAB! Nothing "wrong" about that accusation as you seem to imply.

Are you kidding me? These pilots wont have union protection like the UPS pilots. They simply should walk away from their jobs so that the UPS pilots can squable over the difference from 13.7 million in a career and 14 million? Smoke some more CRACK DUDE

 

[MVSW]

UPS!!! And I would love NOT having to deal with pax. UPS UPS

 

[Wingsweep]

Where I grew up, you would be called a DS

I have 5 factors that I think are important: Job security, pay, benefits, quality of life, and culture.

Did you think up these five factors all on you own? I must say, they are very original. Most people would have included color of the airplanes, or fit of the uniform as important issues. My guess is you're the guy who can't decide between pancakes or steak for dinner.

Hey, Flightinfo folks. I can't decide between pancakes or steak for dinner. My five factors are: flavor, texture, cost, meal size, and distance from Mecca. Like I said, what a DS. Cheers

 

[Below Mins]

Are you kidding me? These pilots wont have union protection like the UPS pilots. They simply should walk away from their jobs so that the UPS pilots can squable over the difference from 13.7 million in a career and 14 million? Smoke some more CRACK DUDE

It's all about right versus wrong. Moving struck goods is wrong. Like 410dude says, you belong in management. By the tone of your posts, sounds like you're the one smoking crack, DUDE!

 

[flybrowntails]

wingsweep:

best post i have read in a while.

fbt

 

[WillowRunVortex]

It's all about right versus wrong. Moving struck goods is wrong. Like 410dude says, you belong in management. By the tone of your posts, sounds like you're the one smoking crack, DUDE!

Look at 410's profile. Nuff said. I fly passengers, and will eventually retire from the airline I am with, and trust me, I want nothing to do with taking out the trash everynight anymore. Been there done that. But I am a mentor to a few young hopefuls over there at Willowrun, and here we go again with friggen UPS strike CRAP. Every company over there will book trips with UPS and expect their pilots to fly them. It is a situation that basically is not fair for the YIP pilots. BIG BROWN EYE isnt even an AIRLINE! It is a parcel service! Be prepared to have a bunch of competent folks in airplanes with all different paint jobs show up and move your stuff.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

"Cripes, why are there so many idiots trolling on this board just looking to get a rise out of people? Go back to playing Flight Sim, moron. You can fly those "cool" 747s and A380s all day long... lock the door to your room so Mommy won't interrupt you now..."

post from jbDC9 regarding 410dude


Evidently he didnt take the hint. Run along and play 410, and get off daddy's computer OK?

 

[TonyC]

Be prepared to have a bunch of competent folks in airplanes with all different paint jobs show up and move your stuff.

What began as my response to Widow's Son's post has turned into your crusade for scabs.

Let's break this down into two topics. First, the comment I made:

Teamsters will support an IPA strike.


This one is cut and dried, no need for discussion, in my opinion. I made this point to highlight the absurdity of Widow's Son's assertion that "if and when a nasty negotiation meltdown occurs" the strike could be circumvented with replacement "foreigners or scabs." (Foreign replacement pilots would be scabs, too, so I'm not impressed by the distinction. I suppose we could break it down into domestic scabs and foreign scabs, but who really cares? Scabs are scabs.) A strike by IPA will not be circumvented by scabs, because Teamsters pick up and deliver UPS packages, and UPS Teamsters will absolutely support an IPA strike. All the scab pilots in the world can fly all the brown airplanes anywhere they please, but the packages will be stuck on the ramps, because the brown trucks won't be moving.

Next, WillowRunVortex's assertion:

Scabbing against UPS is Okay.

Again, there's no need for discussion, but we'll discuss it anyway.

This is Dead wrong. The advice to anyone flying struck work that they will be "wrongly acused [sic] of being a scab" is FALSE. Anyone flying struck work would be RIGHTLY accused of being a scab, because they WOULD BE a scab, by even the strictest definition. No other issue, condition, or circumstance would mitigate this fact or is even relevant.

Other words and phrases you use to describe this fact of life:

"load of crap"

"[un]fair in anybody's book"

"a load of B.S."

"not fair "

All inaccurate, misleading, ignorant, and wrong.

I consider it extremely frightening that you consider yourself a mentor. Even more frightening still would be the belief by young pilots that you really ARE their mentor. Spreading this kind of advice can have no good consequence. Should you persuade others to scab, you will have their sin on your hands.



Let's review, shall we:

1) IPA strikes, Teamsters honors.

2) Scab = WRONG










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[WillowRunVortex]

What began as my response to Widow's Son's post has turned into your crusade for scabs.

Let's break this down into two topics. First, the comment I made:

Teamsters will support an IPA strike.


This one is cut and dried, no need for discussion, in my opinion. I made this point to highlight the absurdity of Widow's Son's assertion that "if and when a nasty negotiation meltdown occurs" the strike could be circumvented with replacement "foreigners or scabs." (Foreign replacement pilots would be scabs, too, so I'm not impressed by the distinction. I suppose we could break it down into domestic scabs and foreign scabs, but who really cares? Scabs are scabs.) A strike by IPA will not be circumvented by scabs, because Teamsters pick up and deliver UPS packages, and UPS Teamsters will absolutely support an IPA strike. All the scab pilots in the world can fly all the brown airplanes anywhere they please, but the packages will be stuck on the ramps, because the brown trucks won't be moving.

Next, WillowRunVortex's assertion:

Scabbing against UPS is Okay.

Again, there's no need for discussion, but we'll discuss it anyway.

This is Dead wrong. The advice to anyone flying struck work that they will be "wrongly acused [sic] of being a scab" is FALSE. Anyone flying struck work would be RIGHTLY accused of being a scab, because they WOULD BE a scab, by even the strictest definition. No other issue, condition, or circumstance would mitigate this fact or is even relevant.

Other words and phrases you use to describe this fact of life:

"load of crap"

"[un]fair in anybody's book"

"a load of B.S."

"not fair "

All inaccurate, misleading, ignorant, and wrong.

I consider it extremely frightening that you consider yourself a mentor. Even more frightening still would be the belief by young pilots that you really ARE their mentor. Spreading this kind of advice can have no good consequence. Should you persuade others to scab, you will have their sin on your hands.



Let's review, shall we:

1) IPA strikes, Teamsters honors.

2) Scab = WRONG










.

OK, Now I would like you to give me the info I should tell these 2 young folks, (one with a newborn), when they refuse a UPS trip and predictably, are fired and immediatly loose their income. I dont want to hear about dignity, I want real answers to real questions, such as what will I do to put food in my baby's mouth?

 

[TonyC]

OK, Now I would like you to give me the info I should tell these 2 young folks, (one with a newborn), when they refuse a UPS trip and predictably, are fired and immediatly loose their income. I dont want to hear about dignity, I want real answers to real questions, such as what will I do to put food in my baby's mouth?

Tell them that you don't have the honor or integrity to advise a snake.


The right thing to tell them is "Don't fly struck work." It's also very simple.


If you can't tell them the right thing, don't tell them anything at all.





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[WillowRunVortex]

Here is the problem,,,pilots do just fine over at Willow Run flying mostly auto freight. The biggest problem seems to be everytime contract negotiations start at UPS, pilots at Willow go Oh boy here we go. Because YIP is in the freight business they are automatically called to solve your guy's problems.


P.S, Plus Connie taught your company how to do it prior to 1988