Today's Update from NJA

[netjetwife]

Fairness, encouragement, and due credit guide my posting; and yes, I do take Union/NJ issues seriously. The impact it has is too big not to.

I saw firsthand that it took a lot of time, effort, and money to take the strong union concept and turn it into an industry leading movement for change. I don't think those involved take that accomplishment lightly. Much hard work and daring was required to build NJASAP and those who led the charge (my husband among them) have assumed a big responsibility. That's a sobering thought. The Labor-Management relationship that brought us the 2007 contract and is preventing hundreds of NJ pilots from being furloughed wasn't easy to acquire and still demands patience and diplomacy from those interacting with the Company.

Opinions are often a by-product of perspective. I have no doubt that my family's commitment to serving the NJ pilots is largely responsible for my serious tone when current events are discussed--along with a strong sense of fairness. That said, my avatar is evidence that I do have a fun side and I look forward to happier, prosperous times for all our frac families. NJW

 

[RNObased]

The only observation difficulty I have trouble with is I can't see why, with the talent they have, the Mets can't win a damn World Series...

Now that is a damned good question. The Mets are very talented, but maybe they are head cases, like B19 and can't get it together.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

LOL... That's a bet that unfortunately you're going to lose. I have absolutely no desire to log back on. This last week allowed me to look at just how engulfed I really was. It's definitely not something I'm proud of.

For Chrissakes, I aint askin' you to log on and spout off a dissertation, Just stick your nose in! I win, you win, and your tiki bar gets subsidized..then you can dissappear forever! Work with me!

 

[doh]

I bet B19 made himself dizzy trying to figure out how to spin the NJ victory into a Union-caused disaster.... So in the meantime he has slithered back under his rock to repackage his worn-out FUD.

I have to disagree. I think he "Bobbed" back under!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Remember when there was life before the internet and message boards.

BWAHAA..... :laugh:


Uh.... No

 

[AvroJockey]

But I do not think everyone flying is content with this outcome. We have had about 8-10 flights in the last 2 months and I would charactierze that most of the pilots fall into 2 groups:

2/3 are friendlier than ever and at some point during the flight whole heartedly give us a "thank you for flying us in these times" and "we really appreciate your flying with us because being a pilot can be rough ..."

the other 1/3 just have a "pissed" attitude, not quite surly, but I can't think of the right word, and just keep it bottled up and don't say a word. This is diffrent when during the contract negotiations there was a group of pilots who were actively trying to tell us something they did not like.

Years ago I was told that in a "good compromise" no one is totally happy. It means everyone gave in.

Fly safe, and thanks.

NJAOwner

After years of trolling this board and wasting countless hours reading useless drivel, I have to say your posts are refreshing.

We need such feedback. A good shot in the arm...at times painful, but ultimately positive.

Thanks

 

[doh]

B19, come out, come out, wherever you are!

 

[NJAowner]

Wasted Time

AvroJockey - yes I have spent countless hours, and in most cases I would say it is useless. But, there are not many places for one to learn the "ins and outs" of the aviation business (not how to fly) and the operations side of frax, so the rare nuggets I have gotten have been worth the time. Plus, it is entertaining at times! Some of what I have learned has been informative (and believe it or not, actually found out to be true -- amazing!!!), and I feel has been important in making my aviation decisions. Furthermore, if what I have to say helps even one of you better understand the frax business, my time is also well spent.

Now on a more direct note -- I was against my Jets signing BF, began to eat my words in mid-season, but he destroyed the "team" and did more harm than good. Sorry to say negative things about one of yours. Atleast Joe Willie played out his final seasons with flair and class.

Fly safe.

 

[gunfyter]

Football! Now thats a safe subject we can all agree on :laugh:.

I remember when I lived in NY, I was a Giants fan during the days of Fran the Man. You had to be a masochist ... It was like getting up once a week every Sunday and hitting yourself in the head with a sledge hammer.

Alley Sherman ... Meanwhile, two of the most successful coaches in football history ... were former Giants assistants ... Lombardi and Landry.

Man it was tough to like the giants there for while...

 

[NJAowner]

Giants

I was young but used to see the Giants in summer camp (before it was a big deal) at Monmouth College when Alex Webster was the coach.

Fran the Man, Spider Lockart, Ron Johnson, Rocky Thompson, Pete Gogolack, Norm Snead, Bob Tucker, Tucker Fredrickson.

That is all I can remember now, long before NFL players were superstars and we stood by the fence to watch practice and all gave autographs.

Of course a month later we had the Knicks training camp at Monmouth: Cylde Frazier (first with an Eldorado convertible then a Rolls - both with whitewall tires), Willis Reed, Dave Debuschire, Earl "the Pearl" Monroe, Dean Memminger, (later to be Senator) Bill Bradley, Phil Jackson (as a rookie -- long before his coaching career). Again, autographs a plenty and all lived in the college dorms. These guys were normal and cool.

Then I went back to being a Jets fan when summer camp left our neighborhood. Being a Jets fan is a lesson in patience. If you wan tot be a masochist we have been in a "rebuilding year" since 1969.

Fly safe,.

 

[BeeDubya]

NJAOwner

After years of trolling this board and wasting countless hours reading useless drivel, I have to say your posts are refreshing.

We need such feedback. A good shot in the arm...at times painful, but ultimately positive.

Thanks

Okay, I haven't been trolling this board for years... however, I agree with this post! Thanks, NJAOwner (and any others that are here). Both for your spending some of your time here and with us in the air.

In gratitude,
Brian

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

I was young but used to see the Giants in summer camp (before it was a big deal) at Monmouth College when Alex Webster was the coach.

Fran the Man, Spider Lockart, Ron Johnson, Rocky Thompson, Pete Gogolack, Norm Snead, Bob Tucker, Tucker Fredrickson.

That is all I can remember now, long before NFL players were superstars and we stood by the fence to watch practice and all gave autographs.

Of course a month later we had the Knicks training camp at Monmouth: Cylde Frazier (first with an Eldorado convertible then a Rolls - both with whitewall tires), Willis Reed, Dave Debuschire, Earl "the Pearl" Monroe, Dean Memminger, (later to be Senator) Bill Bradley, Phil Jackson (as a rookie -- long before his coaching career). Again, autographs a plenty and all lived in the college dorms. These guys were normal and cool.

Then I went back to being a Jets fan when summer camp left our neighborhood. Being a Jets fan is a lesson in patience. If you wan tot be a masochist we have been in a "rebuilding year" since 1969.

Fly safe,.

NJAOwner,
Where I live in Jersey we have a mix of Giant, Jet and Eagle fans. Next would be the Steelers, which I am and grew up a Steeler fan. It's a great area regarding sports with two major cities and their TV networks.

 

[dime line]

B19, come out, come out, wherever you are!

FLOPS let go, (or the CONTRACT ran out) Fud and Harrison (law firm), so you will not see B19 and Skanza, as they were fudsters paid by the law firm.

 

[Freedom]

I'm surprised no one else noticed the timing....

That once Fud and Harrassment left the Negotiating Table, all of the sudden, B19 ended his non-stop Anti-Union campaign.

Funny, the rest of us on this side of the fence have been unpaid volunteers since Day 1.

Yet the minute B19 stops getting paid, he runs along.

Another Professional (in his case FUD spinner) who refuses to work for Free.

Wonder how long it will take until the Flight Options Pilots wake up to the same reality.

No one will give you anything. Your Contract will be signed when it becomes more cost effective for Management to sign it, then not to sign it.

Just ask any NetJets Pilot who was in the 2005 fight. They will tell you how it is.


Good Luck.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[B19 Flyer]

You have no clue about the pain this has caused, do you?

I bet B19 made himself dizzy trying to figure out how to spin the NJ victory into a Union-caused disaster.... So in the meantime he has slithered back under his rock to repackage his worn-out FUD.

NJW, what happened at NJ is an industry disaster, not a NJ victory.

YOUR union set the expectations so high by that CBA that the ramifications of this incredible failure in judgment by union leadership will be felt for years, if not forever within the industry.

NJ has paid through the nose in an attempt to recover from this, and concept of the original business model within the rest of the industry is being destroyed from within by it. You stand there and are proud of what your union has done and the standard it has set. Your greed and lack of empathy for those that are laid off or have interupted their careers as a result knows no boundaries to the pain it has caused.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Oops.... looks like you're wrong again there ace...

That once Fud and Harrassment left the Negotiating Table, all of the sudden, B19 ended his non-stop Anti-Union campaign.

Funny, the rest of us on this side of the fence have been unpaid volunteers since Day 1.

Yet the minute B19 stops getting paid, he runs along.

Another Professional (in his case FUD spinner) who refuses to work for Free.

Wonder how long it will take until the Flight Options Pilots wake up to the same reality.

No one will give you anything. Your Contract will be signed when it becomes more cost effective for Management to sign it, then not to sign it.

Just ask any NetJets Pilot who was in the 2005 fight. They will tell you how it is.


Good Luck.


Freedom is Not Free

Wrong... again.

 

[Freedom]

Well lookie here....

NJW, what happened at NJ is an industry disaster, not a NJ victory.

YOUR union set the expectations so high by that CBA that the ramifications of this incredible failure in judgment by union leadership will be felt for years, if not forever within the industry.

NJ has paid through the nose in an attempt to recover from this, and concept of the original business model within the rest of the industry is being destroyed from within by it. You stand there and are proud of what your union has done and the standard it has set. Your greed and lack of empathy for those that are laid off or have interupted their careers as a result knows no boundaries to the pain it has caused.

Guess the Fudster passed along his password to FLOPS Management in an attempt to continue showing his false face.

The length they will go to, to avoid paying a Fair Wage never stops amazing me.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[jppt2000]

NJW, what happened at NJ is an industry disaster, not a NJ victory.

YOUR union set the expectations so high by that CBA that the ramifications of this incredible failure in judgment by union leadership will be felt for years, if not forever within the industry.

NJ has paid through the nose in an attempt to recover from this, and concept of the original business model within the rest of the industry is being destroyed from within by it. You stand there and are proud of what your union has done and the standard it has set. Your greed and lack of empathy for those that are laid off or have interupted their careers as a result knows no boundaries to the pain it has caused.

Wow, what a hypocrite!
A paid shill who has self appointed himself as the voice for fractional pilots.
B19 = no validity

 

[fischman]

NJW, what happened at NJ is an industry disaster, not a NJ victory.

YOUR union set the expectations so high by that CBA that the ramifications of this incredible failure in judgment by union leadership will be felt for years, if not forever within the industry.

NJ has paid through the nose in an attempt to recover from this, and concept of the original business model within the rest of the industry is being destroyed from within by it. You stand there and are proud of what your union has done and the standard it has set. Your greed and lack of empathy for those that are laid off or have interupted their careers as a result knows no boundaries to the pain it has caused.

In what way?

 

[Crobar]

B19, you would do yourself a favor if you would stop calling it our Union and start calling it the "3000 pilots standing up for what is right", then you just might GET it.

 

[netjetwife]

Wow, what a hypocrite!
A paid shill who has self appointed himself as the voice for fractional pilots.
B19 = no validity

Exactly! His validity rating is lower than a snake's belly. Fudspinners are easily spotted by their posts. They want frac pilots to work without a contract for sub-par wages. And speaking of hypocrites...what are the chances of B19 not having a contract... He knows all about the NJ pilots' CBA and the Options pilots fight for a fair contract, but he refuses to establish credibility (by explaining his position in the frac industry) and he disappears as soon as questions are asked about his own salary and/or contract... Typical fudspinner behavior. To adapt famous advice: Wear boots and carry a big stick...:smash:

 

[RNObased]

NJW, what happened at NJ is an industry disaster, not a NJ victory.
How????
YOUR union set the expectations so high by that CBA that the ramifications of this incredible failure in judgment by union leadership will be felt for years, if not forever within the industry.
How???
NJ has paid through the nose in an attempt to recover from this, and concept of the original business model within the rest of the industry is being destroyed from within by it. You stand there and are proud of what your union has done and the standard it has set. Your greed and lack of empathy for those that are laid off or have interupted their careers as a result knows no boundaries to the pain it has caused.
How???

Explain yourself or shut up!!! You make some rash generalizations with nothing to back them up. Making broad sweeping statements with nothing to back them up with is the sign of a weak argurement.

Wow, you showed us. Standing by for your next pearl of "knowledge".

 

[gunfyter]

19,

I didn't know it was the union's fault the stock market crashed and credit dried up?

 

[G200_PILOT]

So what took you so long to show your ugliness 19? We've all been waiting here speculating on how you would attempt to spin this. When the 2005 CBA was negotiated, the market was booming and there was no indication whatsoever that things would take a turn for the worse 3 1/2 years later. Even when the 2007 IBB was signed into effect, things were still plugging along. The real estate market was headed in the wrong direction, but even so, what happened in late 2008, early 2009 was something that neither the company nor the Union expected. Even with as bad as things got, the company never blamed their own downturn on the pilots' salaries. To do so would have been a huge mistake. Until the recent downturn, we were selling airplanes which in turn meant that we were making money in all three areas. As the company was growing, so wasn't the pilot force. Never before, has NJA, and any other fractional for that matter, been put in a position where all of a sudden owners were turning in their shares and walking away. NetJets has never been in a position where we were 20+ airplanes fat. That being the case, we became overstaffed. To insinuate that none of this would have happened had we, the Union, not have asked for "so much money" back in 2005 and 2007, is just plain dumb.

I suppose you think our pre-2005 salaries were good enough huh? In your eyes, we never really needed a raise right?

 

[netjetwife]

19,

I didn't know it was the union's fault the stock market crashed and credit dried up?

Your sarcasm is totally justified, GF. Those who ignore reality typically have a hidden agenda, but in this case, I think we're also seeing desperation akin to a used car salesman pushing a lemon.

RNO, I don't think the fudspinner's weakness ends with his argument. The board regulars know that he makes a habit of attacking the only woman on the thread while he refuses to answer questions from you guys. Hardly a position of strength...:erm:

G200, you're wondering what took so long for B19 to respond with his usual ugliness and false accusations? Maybe he was on vacation ...provided for by a contract, I bet. You can always ask him if he works under a contract, but he has yet to establish credibility with straightforward answers regarding his employment and connection to the frac industry.

Considering that there's zero evidence to support B19's libelous statement accusing me of greed and lack of empathy, does that constitute a personal attack? Actually, anyone who read the threads about furloughed pilots will see that I already expressed my sympathy so B19 is a liar or he's ignorant. My fellow board members can decide. I echo RNO's justified demand. B19 should prove his case or retract his false accusations.

 

[RNObased]

What took so long for B19 to respond with his usual ugliness and false accusations?

Maybe B19 is taking his vacation down to L.A. to try and score tickets for the Micheal Jackson memorial tomorrow. Just a thought.

 

[chasmo]

Ainonline is quoting 165 opt outs and 73 leaves of absences. Have the number of voluntery long term leaves been announced?

 

[RNObased]

Ainonline is quoting 165 opt outs and 73 leaves of absences. Have the number of voluntery long term leaves been announced?

Well I know this much. Ainonline has no idea what it is talking about.

 

[NJA bound]

chasmo is just fishing 4 numbers

 

[chasmo]

NetJets Averts Pilot Layoffs and Furloughs

By: Chad Trautvetter
July 2, 2009
People, Fractional


A voluntary furlough-mitigation program collaboratively formed in April by NetJets and its pilot union, the NetJets Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots (NJASAP), has averted layoffs and furloughs. “Through innovative and purely voluntary measures, NetJets has been able to align our pilot and other areas of our workforce to match our current owner demand levels,” NetJets chairman and CEO Richard Santulli told AIN.

“The voluntary measure process succeeded because of strong employee participation and significant collaboration with [NJASAP]. Because of the success of voluntary measures, we are not planning at this time to right-size our workforce through layoffs or furloughs.

Under the program, union members could choose an early-out option or short- or long-term leaves of absence. Among other solutions offered were voluntary reduced scheduling and a temporary construct allowing crewmembers to receive time off in lieu of pay.

According to NJASAP, 165 pilots took the early-out option, which provides them with full benefits and two thirds of their seven-and-seven schedule pay over the next 36 months. About 2,200 of the 2,934 NetJets pilots are participating in the time-off-in-lieu-of-pay plan, 600 opted for voluntary reduced scheduling and 73 chose leaves of absence.