This is why the last payrates offered by NJA were "insulting."

[Diesel]

That's fine you can side on the complaining issue. There are 2200 of us that have been trapped in this limbo. We are at every fbo, every hotel, every crew van. We are everywhere and when you go from one fbo to another it's the same thing. I notice it when I'm flying the king air.

But what do you do? There are so many of us that it's bound to come up. It's how information gets out there. It's a shame that a CP for one company or another can take the pilot group as a whole and judge them instead of looking at the individual. But that's life and you can't change perceptions.

This isn't a charter or corp dept that has only a couple of guys. 2200 of us walking around the first thing you're going to ask is, "what is the latest".

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[h25b]

I can agree that it's probably unavoidable. But it's not the "what's the latest" that's the problem. I could tell you about the group I overheard the other day and there's no C.P. I can imagine that would want that mentality in their department...

 

[Diesel]

I completely agree but what CP operates a flight department like this one? A cp in a small flight department is usually upfront and deals with questions and rumors head on. They don't send out propoganda and try to turn the other people in the flight department against the pilots. That's what we are dealing with. That's why you hear what you hear in the FBO's.

Trust me when i put my other hat on in my other job it's a completely different feeling. I'm part of the team. I'm working hard at making sure that the department is a success. (look at my agonizing posts regard wxxm, I'm trying to do what's right for the airplane).

 

[TheTruthCMH]

I completely agree but what CP operates a flight department like this one? A cp in a small flight department is usually upfront and deals with questions and rumors head on. They don't send out propoganda and try to turn the other people in the flight department against the pilots. That's what we are dealing with. That's why you hear what you hear in the FBO's.

I've seen most of the emails put out and I don't believe (could be wrong) that any of the CP's at NJA put out any propaganda. I think most of the emails you are referring to Diesel came out from above the DO...

 

[Diesel]

yeah the cp's don't put anything out. I was trying to make an apples to apples comparison. The letters come from the DO and CEO.

 

[gunfyter]

Letters are composed by the Union Busting firm...

 

[TheTruthCMH]

yeah the cp's don't put anything out. I was trying to make an apples to apples comparison. The letters come from the DO and CEO.

I disagree once again, I don't believe the DO puts out anything other than operational emails (once again, from what I've heard and seen myself)... You sure you work for the same company?

 

[Diesel]

jesus christ man the DO puts out his own wacky emails that are insulting enough on their own.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

jesus christ man the DO puts out his own wacky emails that are insulting enough on their own.

Yes, you rang?

Ok, I'll give you that but I don't think he puts out anything but operational emails, no propaganda. Everyone in the flight center gets a copy of most of his emails because they affect many different departments.

 

[gunfyter]

If you get sick in the Flight center do you need to bring in a note from Epstein's mother to go back to work?

 

[Diesel]

Dude it's the same thing. Union busting or not they are the same type of emails that wouldn't fly in a corp department.

Read my above, above, above post about a corp department has a different feeling to nj

 

[TheTruthCMH]

If you get sick in the Flight center do you need to bring in a note from Epstein's mother to go back to work?

Nah, we just wait until we arrive at work to DNIF, then some other poor sap has to pick up our slack and work twice as hard. Hmm, that sounds familiar...

 

[TheTruthCMH]

I completely agree but what CP operates a flight department like this one? A cp in a small flight department is usually upfront and deals with questions and rumors head on. They don't send out propoganda and try to turn the other people in the flight department against the pilots. That's what we are dealing with. That's why you hear what you hear in the FBO's.

Trust me when i put my other hat on in my other job it's a completely different feeling. I'm part of the team. I'm working hard at making sure that the department is a success. (look at my agonizing posts regard wxxm, I'm trying to do what's right for the airplane).

Ok, I will quote your entire post. I still disagree and say that your CP/DO do not send out PROPAGANDA TO TRY AND TURN THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE FLIGHT DEPARTMENT AGAINST THE PILOTS. I believe the emails you are referring to come from HIGHER THAN THE DO.

Is that loud enough for you?

 

[Diesel]

You don't need to shout. Nobody listens anyway.

I've allways wondered why people keep saying someone else has to pick up the slack. It just doesn't make sense. When I go on the road i get scheduled for a 14hr day. It happens every day maybe 13 maybe 14 but it still happens every day.

So a plane breaks what are they going to do schedule me for 15hrs? Where is this extra work they are going to pile on me? It's not like they can schedule me to stay after hours. 14 is it. So when upstairs is saying other people have to pick up the slack... I ask where? My day is allready full. You can't add anything more. Sure you can change my day but you can't add to it.

I do agree though it is not the CP's that send out crap. That does come from much higher.

 

[TheTruthCMH]

You don't need to shout. Nobody listens anyway.

I've allways wondered why people keep saying someone else has to pick up the slack. It just doesn't make sense. When I go on the road i get scheduled for a 14hr day. It happens every day maybe 13 maybe 14 but it still happens every day.

So a plane breaks what are they going to do schedule me for 15hrs? Where is this extra work they are going to pile on me? It's not like they can schedule me to stay after hours. 14 is it. So when upstairs is saying other people have to pick up the slack... I ask where? My day is allready full. You can't add anything more. Sure you can change my day but you can't add to it.

I do agree though it is not the CP's that send out crap. That does come from much higher.

Seems you are listening (actually reading) or you wouldn't have responded.

Let's say we have three crews scheduled to work eight hour days and two crews scheduled to work 14. One of those crews DNIF's/Fatigue's/plane breaks, now one of the remaining four crews (possibly more) has to pick up the flight(s) (obviously coming from one of the eight hour crews). They were scheduled to only have four legs and an eight hour work day, now they have six legs and their day will bump up against 14 (not over, they won't do it). Now the remaining two crews will likely be held on duty a little longer because we have less planes and crews available to cover anything else that may break/fatigue/DNIF down the road. This last scenario is truly what plays out on a daily basis as of late. It is also not uncommon for someone on their first day that has to drive several hours to their gateway, to call in fatigued before ever doing any work...

When push comes to shove, these planes come from all over the NJA fleet to cover flights. While most of the Excel's are scheduled to long duty days, some of the other fleets aren't because they just don't have as much work to do. Now they will be kept on to cover the above flights I mentioned. There will also be some crews only scheduled for standby to give the company some flexibility if a plane breaks/crew DNIF's/fatigues. Now those crews will swing into action and likely end up with a full day when they were only scheduled for standby previously.

I am not saying it is good or bad, just telling it like I see it.