This is why RJ Pilots are given no respect

[Hovernut]

Funniest exchange I've heard was a bizjet behind me on the Laguardia 9, Whitestone climb. After we got vectored off after the 2nd turn to drive down the Hudson, the controller asks the other fella where he's going. I guess he missed the left off the 180deg at D2.5 and was about to blast into JFK's airspace.

The controller issued him a turn and gave him a good NY chiding for not following the procedure and to 'look at it' next time they come into his airspace. They sheepishly acknowledged.

I had to reflect back to my 1st time doing that procedure while still on IOE. What a handfull it could be to a noob!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I spent my fair share of time flying business jets and goofed up my share of times too. Its tough flying...you're constantly going to new airports, often there is no FA and you're trying to make the guys in the back who sign your paycheck happy, and you don't have as many resources available to you as in the 121 world. I'll give credit for that. I do think its bad luck to make threads about someone else's mistakes though...for WolfPack's sake I hope I am wrong.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'd have trouble climbing past FL20100 if I had ice too!

All kidding aside, when you're hiring pilots that have never spent good solid time in the IFR system before their first airline job, you can't expect them to have the foggiest clue about how to talk to ATC. At my regional, I am downright embarassed by some of the crap I hear on the radio from pilots with our callsign. Not intentionally, just from a complete lack of knowledge, experience, and maturity.

When hired, many of these pilots don't know anything more about communicating with ATC than what is required to go to a Class D field to do touch and goes.... and it shows. It reflects a lot more on the airline than the pilot. The next time you're on the radio and you sound like an idiot, try to remember that you're representing everyone that carries your callsign to ATC, to your coworkers, to other airlines, and just about anyone else who wants to listen in. If you don't know how to do it any better, don't guess, don't make stuff up, don't try to BS a controller, don't copy what other equally uneducated peers of you say... go out and read a copy of the AIM / Pilot-Controller Glossary.

This is probably the best post in this thread. Nice job flyf15.

 

[mdanno808]

Apocket, you oughta practice what you preach. Expressnet is a part 121 supplemental airline. Next time u make up a story, get facts right!

See, the real problem isn't with the regional guy's, it's a freight dog problem! At least none of the flaps fell off.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

It was Jetlink the COEX commuter airline. The controller told him he was level at 20,100 feet. You get the point, dont dodge the issue.

Regardless of what you "want" to hear... the guy was an idiot and tried to lie to ATC.

You want respect? Own up to what your doing in your airplane, and obey the rules. If your P.O.S. RJ cant climb through 20,000 with the anti-ice on, you've got a serious problem. But my guess (and only a guess) was he was climbing in VS, got the ice light, turned on the heat, and forgot to adjust the VS until he saw his speed falling through the floor. Why else would he stay level at for over 3 minutes?

Hey, but we all make mistakes.... So far in the last 3 years, you guys have stalled one, flamed the engines, and crashed... and ran one off the wrong runway and crashed. Both very serious accidents which clearly showed a complete lack of professionalism on the flight deck.

But I guess everybody has to start somewhere.

Oh boy...

It might be a good idea to turn the computer OFF the next time you are angry and drinking. I mean this with all due respect... No wait, if your weren't absolutely hammered when you posted this mess then you aren't due any respect at all, so forget it.

First of all, the lack of climb rate with anti ice on isn't necessarily the pilots' fault. A lot of it is due to the design of the aircraft and it's limitations. A smart guy like you should have that one all figured out. My point? The guy didn't build it, it's just the airplane the airline gave him to fly, so lay off.

The RJ pilot in question may very well have told a fib to ATC, and you shouldn't do that. He made a mistake that the controller called him out on, if we are stipulating that what you said is true. Personally I think you might just be full of sh*t, but whatever. Here's a question for you and the rest of the crowd: Has anyone ever had ATC tell them down to the second how long they had been level at an altitude? In 14 years I have never heard that from any controller, but I will admit that doesn't mean they don't have that capability. What I have experienced on several occasions is my mode C (or S) data being slow to update on the controller's screen. Are you sure that wasn't the case here?

"Let he without sin cast the first stone," the old saying goes. You must make precious few mistakes to be hammering on regional folks the way you do. Just a couple of reminders before I send you on your way. Please remember that you need to deice your airplane in many winter weather conditions. Oh, and by the way, don't forget that those darn runways at Teterboro can seem kind of short sometimes. And while I am being helpful, please be extra special careful not to botch up the approach, especially when the weather is really low. Didn't a Gulfstream crew do that in Houston not too long ago? Nah. Couldn't be that.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Owned

Just a couple of reminders before I send you on your way. Please remember that you need to deice your airplane in many winter weather conditions. Oh, and by the way, don't forget that those darn runways at Teterboro can seem kind of short sometimes. And while I am being helpful, please be extra special careful not to botch up the approach, especially when the weather is really low. Didn't a Gulfstream crew do that in Houston not too long ago? Nah. Couldn't be that.

Well said, and a better response than he deserved. If this site had an "Owned" list you could easilly put him on it with that one.

 

[mlifly]

It was Jetlink the COEX commuter airline. The controller told him he was level at 20,100 feet. You get the point, dont dodge the issue.

Regardless of what you "want" to hear... the guy was an idiot and tried to lie to ATC.

You want respect? Own up to what your doing in your airplane, and obey the rules. If your P.O.S. RJ cant climb through 20,000 with the anti-ice on, you've got a serious problem. But my guess (and only a guess) was he was climbing in VS, got the ice light, turned on the heat, and forgot to adjust the VS until he saw his speed falling through the floor. Why else would he stay level at for over 3 minutes?

Hey, but we all make mistakes.... So far in the last 3 years, you guys have stalled one, flamed the engines, and crashed... and ran one off the wrong runway and crashed. Both very serious accidents which clearly showed a complete lack of professionalism on the flight deck.

But I guess everybody has to start somewhere.

I don't post here often but I couldn't let this go...

First off, and of little significance, I love how you say "if your p.o.s. RJ can't climb through 20,000 feet with the anti-ice on" as if he or anyone else on this board designed it and built it.

Second, you piece of sh!t, I knew one of the crewmembers involved in the runway crash you refer to. That accident had nothing to do with a lack of professionalism. It was just that- an accident. More over, it was an accident that had happened many times before, but was caught by the tower before becoming tragic.

How anyone can come on here and sh!t on the reputation of a deceased pilot, and then rant about professionalism is beyond my level of comprehension.

This board would have much more intelligent, thought out posts- if instead of listing your flight time and how many little gulfstreams you fly, you had to list your email address and phone number.

 

[climbhappy]

wolpack:

you and sidney lowe are pretty full of it. take that red jacket off. i know the heels wooped you the other night , but no need to spew this crap.

tell me how one airplane, that didn't violate any reg and simply had an exchange, manages to as you put it " give rj pilots such a lack of respect."

what rule are you referring to? where is it in the FARS?

bottom line. you're frustrated with where you are and you think your self esteem is tied to whether the conversations on the radio are correct in the phraseology, precision and content.

it ain't a perfect world. ever heard this?" hey 123 are joining up on the localizer? transponder on? need to hit the switch, you're still on tower?
say heading? say altitude? say airspeed?

how bout the guys that go "whaddya need? is that correct?

better lighten up, you're going to pull a major gaffe soon and eat a little humble pie GO HEELS!!

 

[BoilerUP]

In the last decade or so, domestic Gulfstream pilots have crashed:

1. off the end and side of runways
2. in ASE after not following proper approach procedures
3. after ducking under on an instrument approach

All three show a serious lack of professionalism on the flight deck.

Good to know your sh!t don't stink, high and mighty GEEEEEEE5 driver.

 

[Sckfck]

As an RJ pilot, it is embarrassing to work with some of these guys that CFI'd for a couple hundred hours and think they paid dues. Better yet, went to Riddle/UND and think they got real flying experiance. Unless you were working at a scheduled 135 op. before taking an RJ job, its hard to build solid IFR time/experience. In any event, no need to bash everyone that flies an RJ. I'm sure there are some people in your corporate field that found the way in the Left Seat because Daddy knew somebody. It happens everywhere. So chill out.........Tool.

 

[PudgeyDingus]

Wolfpack, remember where you were before your almighty Gulfstream? You were a little FO pulling gear in (gasp) an RJ. But you weren't one of those unprofessional types, right? Remind me again why you left Comair? And don't give me the line about actually wanting to fly for NJI.

 

[SSDD]

While this guy seems to have a chip on his shoulder, let's not dismiss what he is saying.

If you can't climb, you have to let ATC know. If both your engines flame out, you have to let ATC know, and not pretend you're going to fix it before anyone notices.

Some of us seem reluctant to admit to a potential problem until its too late.

 

[siucavflight]

Few weeks ago on Midway approach.

Chicago: Southwest XXX you have flown through your localizer.
SWA: Roger sir
Chicago: SWA XXX do you know what it means to intercept a localizer? Do you have an instrument rating?
SWA: Sorry a little bit of tailwind up here
Chicago: No matter SWA all of the people behind you are your company anyways, you let me know what you want to do and when you decide I will let your company come out of their hold.

 

[fastback]

Few weeks ago on Midway approach.

Chicago: Southwest XXX you have flown through your localizer.
SWA: Roger sir
Chicago: SWA XXX do you know what it means to intercept a localizer? Do you have an instrument rating?
SWA: Sorry a little bit of tailwind up here
Chicago: No matter SWA all of the people behind you are your company anyways, you let me know what you want to do and when you decide I will let your company come out of their hold.

Cav, that's awesome! Pretty good post, too!

 

[siucavflight]

I just kept laughing, maybe he was not a professional. My point being that everyone makes mistakes.
No one has ever talked down to me for being an RJ driver. So I am not sure the point of this thread.

 

[suupah]

I remember a time when a USairways mainline aircraft could not read back or comply with a taxi instruction correctly. the Ground controller finally asked if "Do you need No gyro vectors to your parking spot?!!!"

I think mistakes happen at all levels

 

[Papps]

This past Tuesday (20th) at around 9:45 EST, I was in route from PHOG to KTPA. Somewhere close to Houston as I was entering the Gulf I heard the following conversation and just shook my head.


ATC: Express Jet 123 (don’t remember the flight #) are you still climbing to FL260?

A/C: Roger that Houston, we picked up a little ice and had to slow the rate of climb.

ATC: I understand Express Jet, but I have other traffic near you. If you’re going to stop climbing I need you to advise of me of such next time.

A/C: Uh, we’re still showing…. Uh 800 FPM…

ATC: Well Express Jet I have a time recorded radar system which feeds off your Mode C transponder code, it’s telling me you’ve been level at FL 20100 for 3 minutes and 14 seconds. Contact Houston Center on 121.85 and let them know your intentions.


Busted! I constantly hear RJ pilots crying and moaning for respect from their peers, yet it’s this type of incident which clearly shows the lack of professional demeanor many of these pilots project. You can’t have it both ways.

that story sounds made up. If its not then the guy missed an altitude change from FL200 - FL260 and tryed to BS his way out of it. So its an altitude bust, I guess the corporate community is immune to those. You're a know it all tool. Aviation is filled with ******************************s like yourself that witness some stupid miscalculation and can't wait to get home to post it on flight info. Its the guys that think they are smarter and superior to everyone else that botch the most stuff up in the cockpit.

 

[Papps]

lol flightinfo censors words automatically. thats crazy. but your still a ******************************

 

[Papps]

By the way didn't some GV or IV guys CFIT one in aspen a few years back. I guess everyone F's up at some point.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

NO respect?!?!

Today's RJ pilot is tomorrow's mainline/corporate/frac pilot.

So whacha sayin'?

Surely you don't mean to generalize beyond this one individuals poor radio skills.