The logic of relative seniority

[Ty Webb]

Here's a good thread from October.

 

[St. Nic]

This thread is dead- like the farce of "relative" seniority...

 

[xanderman]

What every swinging d!ck has to realize here is that no matter what you think you deserve or are owed or expected your career will end up very different. Get over it! If you haven't realized that yet then you are truly ignorant... I do love the whole "I expected to retire number 3!" BS though. Hell I was supposed to inherit a million dollars from my uncle too! What a bunch of ******************** stains.

 

[Metrojet]

All things being pretty equal, pay rates, benefits, work rules, retirement, etc, I think relative seniority is the way to go.

But you can't say the #1 guy at Virgin goes in equal to the #1 320 pilot at Delta. Nor can you say the #1 747 pilot at Kalitta goes in with the #1 747 pilot at UPS. You are not making a fair comparison.

As someone else said, no two mergers are the same, so you can't use a one size fits all method.

Mich707767 -

First you say "all things being equal - relative seniority is the way to go" - and then in the very next sentence you dispute that? Well what do you really mean then?

Metrojet

 

[doh]

I believe he is saying if two SWAs merged (similar pay, fleet size, etc) then you could expect relative seniority. All things would be about equal. If there are differences, you will see those reflected in the arbitrator's decision. Here, there are differences, so you will get something in-between relative seniority and staple.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Hose:

It's not apples-apples . . . VA is not a profitable carrier; it is still a very risky proposition career-wise. AirTran has a decade of profitability, a half-billion in the bank, 50 aircraft on order, and hiring 22 a month. Regardless, if it is relative seniority, not one AT pilot would move up or down, so it wouldn't be a big deal.

Arguing this stuff isn't going to get us anywhere . . . it seems like it is likely to make things worse for all, not better, so I am going to sit back, decompress, and let the MC's and perhaps Arbitrator work it out. There's really not much we can all do . . . . there's really no sense debating it. I'm sure you're a great guy, and I like to think that I am too, so let's just let our committee folks do their best and agree to accept the final list.

Regards,
Ty

Ty,

Turns out Virgin IS a profitable carrier. If fact they plan to double in the next 18 months. What do you say about my "hypothetical" now? Just curious. Reminder: 2008 number one behind your '93 number 1? Early 2010 captains keeping their seat in front of ALL of your 2006(?) F.O.s?

Fair? Equatable?

Curious...

 

[Ty Webb]

One quarter with an operating profit doesn't make VA a valid comparison. Sorry. If you were talking about Spirit or JEt Blue it would be a more valid comparison.

 

[Lear70]

Is that a threat? What "unintended consequences" do you envision?

Monitors, How far does something like this go before its considered threatening?

It's not personal. It has to be personal before it's considered "threatening".

It's also one of those relative things. I read his comment and hear references to "the destruction of the Southwest culture and angst for decades to come" if the SLI favors AAI pilots too heavily to the detriment of the SWA pilots.

Either way, I didn't see it as a personal attack or threat, just a generic "be careful what you wish for" statement. If it deteriorates into a personal attack (it's rare on here, but it happens), then we step in.

Hope that answers your question.

/mod

 

[Lear70]

Watch the scab reference, ladies and gentlemen. Open discussion of that is not allowed on this forum for legal liability reasons.

Have a question about it? Send someone a PM. (not me, I get too many PM's as it is and can't answer that kind of a question since I'm a mod).

/mod

 

[400ADude]

Watch the scab reference, ladies and gentlemen. Open discussion of that is not allowed on this forum for legal liability reasons.

Have a question about it? Send someone a PM. (not me, I get too many PM's as it is and can't answer that kind of a question since I'm a mod).

/mod

From the Forum Rules Mr Lear 70 guy:

NO SCAB LISTS or links to scab lists may be placed on these forums. No calling a member/non-member a scab. Violators will be permanently banned at first offense if or when the Websitemaster/moderators feel deemed.

You can discuss it according to the rules, just don't post a link to the list or call somebody one.

Show me your reference. The above quote I gave came from the person who manages/owns this site.