The logic of relative seniority

[kwick]

I'm not complaining to anyone. He asked a question, and I answered it.

FWIW, It's not our fault either, yet out of all the groups involved, SW pilots are the only ones with much to lose........

You lose Nothing!

But, You want the AT guys to lose their present jobs and
seniority.

 

[Tripower455]

You lose Nothing!

But, You want the AT guys to lose their present jobs and
seniority.

No, I'd LOVE to see the AT guys keep their present jobs and seniority!

Before 9/27, the AT guys wanted to get bought and stapled because it was far better than they had. Post 9/27, they want OUR jobs and seniority.....

Which means we lose if they get it.....

 

[Ty Webb]

No, I'd LOVE to see the AT guys keep their present jobs and seniority!

Before 9/27, the AT guys wanted to get bought and stapled because it was far better than they had.

A few very junior FO's were frustrated by Contract Negotiations one night and posted "please buy us". If you want to cling to that as a negotiating point, feel free, but it isn't really relevant.

 

[vetrider]

Well, I think you guys collectively, AT and SWA, have one thing going for you. That is it appears that you aren't going to shrink. That should be a huge help.

At AWA/AAA the whole damn thing has just been a fist fight over a shrinking pie with disparate lists. There couldn't have been a more perfect storm.

 

[kc81900]

Ok, I will bite on this one.......As an AirTran guy - if we go relative seniority I will lose out. Put yourself in my shoes. AirTran stays AirTran I upgrade to CPT in 2 years under the existing aircraft order structure. With relative seniority and a merge into SWA upgrade is a probably a decade off. As a AirTran CPT I would make more under the new AirTran CBA then as a SWA FO.

Using logic I think the only fair way is a relative seniority integration. We do bring a lot to the table and so do you! I hope we become a power house and we grow like weeds with upgrades all around.

Aircraft orders are not aircraft on property. SWA had aggressive aircraft orders three years ago then things changed as things can and will change at airtran. Aircraft orders can and often are delayed and cancelled as quickly as they are made.

Your CEO has publicly said airtran does not have the financial position to continue this aggressive growth plan and needs SWA's financial position to continue on this growth path. A 2 year upgrade today at airtran can easily and quickly change to a 7 - 10 year upgrade in the blink of an eye. So as far as I and anyone who has been in this industry for any length of time (22 years for me) that argument does not hold water. Ask any usair east or TWA pilot about career expectations.

 

[Tripower455]

A few very junior FO's were frustrated by Contract Negotiations one night and posted "please buy us". If you want to cling to that as a negotiating point, feel free, but it isn't really relevant.

Nearly 1/3 of your list has or had active applications on file at SWA.

 

[Ty Webb]

Nearly 1/3 of your list has or had active applications on file at SWA.

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

 

[Dash Power]

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

Seems like good business sense. But you are covering up the point, again.

Over the years I flown with a half dozen AT guys. Both Captains and FO's. None on the bottom of the list.

Just thought I would give you something else to spin while you are on leave.

 

[Tripower455]

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

How many have actually left?

 

[slaquer5]

Seems like good business sense. But you are covering up the point, again.

Over the years I flown with a half dozen AT guys. Both Captains and FO's. None on the bottom of the list.

Just thought I would give you something else to spin while you are on leave.

What kind of leave is it? OJI ?

 

[Ty Webb]

Seems like good business sense. But you are covering up the point, again.

Over the years I flown with a half dozen AT guys. Both Captains and FO's. None on the bottom of the list.

Just thought I would give you something else to spin while you are on leave.

Send it over to your MC, mastermind. I'm sure the arbitrators will be impressed.

Pay rates change from Contract to Contract. Seniority does not. Right now SWA rates are the top. A few years from now, who knows?

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Seniority does change....YOU WILL BE ON THE BOTTOM...enjoy it

 

[Ty Webb]

Seniority does change....YOU WILL BE ON THE BOTTOM...enjoy it

You really don't have anything intelligent to say, do you? Is this supposed to be proof of SWA's "superior" pilot hiring? Or the tremendous culture we should eagerly sacrifice our seniority for?

 

[T3700]

I think that SWAPA must have put out the word not to expect a staple and to expect something more reasonable for both sides. That may explain the temper tantrums and frantic demands for a staple or nothing by some junior SWA F/O's. Of course seeing how well the threats of "take a staple or lose your job" would play on Airtran's behalf at any arbitration, maybe the posters are really Airtran guys in disguise.

 

[Flopgut]

At the very least, Bond McCaskill is in play here, right?

CAL/UAL has an agreement that (at least for the time it is in effect) provides for ALPA merger policy even if we leave ALPA.

 

[St. Nic]

I think that SWAPA must have put out the word not to expect a staple and to expect something more reasonable for both sides. That may explain the temper tantrums and frantic demands for a staple or nothing by some junior SWA F/O's. Of course seeing how well the threats of "take a staple or lose your job" would play on Airtran's behalf at any arbitration, maybe the posters are really Airtran guys in disguise.

SWAPA controls the merger, the 9th even ruled that USAPA doesn't have to present the arbitrated seniority list between the two groups and that is exactly what USAPA is doing. There is no such thing as final and binding in arbitration and a relevant case is unfolding as we speak to support that exact premise. Don't want to mention the forbidden merger here, even though it is 100% relavant!!!

 

[Lear70]

You're allowed, St. Nic.

This isn't a SWA/AAI thread, this is a "The Logic of Relative Seniority" thread whereby many different airlines' integrations have been mentioned on both sides of the argument.

The only restriction on the UAir/AWA thread posts is when they hijack SOMEONE ELSE'S thread, i.e. "AAI Pilots Beware!" or one of the other SWA topics out there.

/mod

 

[GuppyWN]

Send it over to your MC, mastermind. I'm sure the arbitrators will be impressed.

Pay rates change from Contract to Contract. Seniority does not. Right now SWA rates are the top. A few years from now, who knows?

SWA has ALWAYS paid more in pay and benefits than AAI.

Gup

 

[Lonestar]

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

I hear you also have a few hundred pilots who interviewed, unsuccessfully, at SWA. I guess they were all happy to go to the bottom of our list. It sure seems strange why so many guys tried to leave AAI for SWA when they are such 'equals'!

Don't worry though trannies, I'm sure that's just another thing the arbitrators won't consider.

Btw, exactly what were they 'hedging their bets' against Ty? A furlough? Oh no, that was your airline. I know, I know...that was just mgmt fear tactics so the arbitrator can't consider that either.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Your position is DOOMED.

So is his career.
The chq east pilots position was doomed all along. It's amazing that even someone with little intelligence such as st. nic can't see it. Of course 25 years in the right seat will do that to him.
The chq east pilots were days away from becoming Walmart greeters for the rest of their careers, which in the end, would have been a bump in pay.:laugh: