The logic of relative seniority

[Lear70]

Hey Lear 70, I could swear I addressed these comments with a post Sat night but strangely I don't see it here now. Maybe I just forgot to hit post reply.

You didn't reply on this thread. No posts Saturday night from 1607 until I posted at 2337, nothing deleted, either.

I've already spoken about some things I would find unfair (staple) and letting our MC find a fair MIDDLE GROUND, and as our MC has asked us not to comment, that's really all I'm going to say on the matter.

Hey Richard, thanks for the confirmation BTW, word is you interviewed twice at SWA.

Care to comment?

I already did in another thread last month. Sorry you missed it, it's still there if you'd like to do the research. Unlike most people on this forum, I don't hide behind the anonymity of a keyboard and screen name. My real name has been out there on this forum for years...

Southwest is a great company, I've never been hostile about being turned down because of one, erroneous bad reference on the background check (which I fixed before I interviewed at AirTran and which means, yes, I passed the Southwest interview and all my references were contacted). The interview experience was probably the most pleasant of my career, great people, I have nothing negative to say whatsoever.

AirTran has been able to be VERY choosy in their pilots for the last decade. Lots of new deliveries, explosive growth, and no real pilot hiring at other carriers has let us pick and choose people with spotless records, extensive 121 PIC time, and great personalities. Pilots here tend to go above and beyond to try to get the job done, recent contract issues notwithstanding, and I believe, as others have mentioned, that our cultures are more closely aligned than most people give it credit for.

Southwest pilots have every right to be proud of their company, and as I've said before, I want to make sure that culture is maintained as I believe it's the most important ingredient in Southwest's success. I sincerely hope that whatever SLI solution is found, while not everyone will be happy, that we can all move forward POSITIVELY and GROW the combined airlines into a great future.

Moderator hat on:

If you want to ask someone, me included, PERSONAL questions, you are free to send a PM. Otherwise, please don't hijack the thread.

/mod

 

[Lonestar]

I've already spoken about some things I would find unfair (staple) and letting our MC find a fair MIDDLE GROUND, and as our MC has asked us not to comment, that's really all I'm going to say on the matter.
/mod

Lear, you wrote three or four paragraphs on why DOH wouldn't be fair, yet when I respond to the windfall your group would receive in your scenario, you respond by saying you're respecting your MECs request to refrain from comments? Really?

 

[Lonestar]

AirTran has been able to be VERY choosy in their pilots for the last decade. Lots of new deliveries, explosive growth, and no real pilot hiring at other carriers has let us pick and choose people with spotless records, extensive 121 PIC time, and great personalities. Pilots here tend to go above and beyond to try to get the job done, recent contract issues notwithstanding, and I believe, as others have mentioned, that our cultures are more closely aligned than most people give it credit for.
/mod

I won't argue that your pilots hired in the last 5 or more years have had the qualifications to get hired at any airline, but there are several hundred in your ranks who tried, unsuccessfully, to come to SWA. SWA hires about one out of every four or five interviewed, and each has the qualifications. There's more to it than just PIC time.

On another note, regarding your pilots who tend to go above and beyond to try to get the job done, does that include the those who use their free time while on medical leave to do car work in the driveway?

 

[waveflyer]

It's a strange integration- relative seniority wouldn't be fair to our senior captains- not even close- DOH wouldnt be fair to the junior WN fo's

I see DOH with a ratio down from A mid 1990's hire that leaves about 500 AT Fo's below CJ.

IMHO with the contractual and cultural gains- this is pretty fair and livable- litmus test?
There'd be pilots pissed about it- but both sides would vote it in

 

[say again]

I won't argue that your pilots hired in the last 5 or more years have had the qualifications to get hired at any airline, but there are several hundred in your ranks who tried, unsuccessfully, to come to SWA. SWA hires about one out of every four or five interviewed, and each has the qualifications. There's more to it than just PIC time.
/QUOTE]

Are you saying that people who were rejected by SWA are inferior to those that were hired?

 

[waveflyer]

No- though not paramount- Swa has been the better, more sought after job for the entire time AT has existed there are plenty would would leave AT for Swa - not many who'd leave Swa for AT- if ANY- I don't like pissing contests- but expectations ought to be adjusted bc of this-
And life is good-It'll be some hybrid of DOH and relative seniority- and we should all let the process play out

 

[27 driver]

If pay rates don't matter, then why didn't AAI pilots agree to a contract several years ago?

I'd guess the fact that Airtran was subsidizing growth with lower payrates for the past several years with lower pay rates. That's reason number one that SWA pilots won't be happy with relative seniority. We bargained for a solid contract ten years ago while AAI pilots continued at basement wages--which allowed AAI to grow at a fast pace.

Having the AAI pilots trade their accecptance of substandard wages for increased seniority after the merger sets a bad precedent. Instead of bargaining for a good contracts, pilots will start negotiating for a contract that will put themselves in a good position after a merger.

AAI pilots tried to get a better contract. Management used the RLA to their advantage to stall the process. And to be correct according to the swapaluv website, LUV didn't climb to the top until 2004 when all the legacies got their concessionary contracts. I am truly happy for you guys that you don't have draconian management like the Lorenzo types we have at the Tran. And I am not sure I understand you last point. Aren't they one in the same. Any contract that puts you in a better place for a merger would put you in a better place period.

 

[jonjuan]

I see

There's your mistake.

 

[jonjuan]

SWA hired about one out of every four or five interviewed since 2003

However, they hired five out of every four from 1973 to 2002.

 

[waveflyer]

However, they hired five out of every four from 1973 to 2002.

No- it was easier- but never easy

 

[Dash Power]

No- it was easier- but never easy

Bullsheet. In 1994 they hired one is six. In 2002 they hired one in eight.

Since the mid-eighties it has been more difficult to get a job with SWA than any other carrier. The minimum hiring requirements have always been much higher than the other majors. Most hired with majors since the eighties didn't meet the minimum requirements. In my class they averaged the total time at around 4500 hours with 2300 turbine.

Those are the facts.

 

[Angus]

It's a strange integration- relative seniority wouldn't be fair to our senior captains- not even close- DOH wouldnt be fair to the junior WN fo's

I see DOH with a ratio down from A mid 1990's hire that leaves about 500 AT Fo's below CJ.

IMHO with the contractual and cultural gains- this is pretty fair and livable- litmus test?
There'd be pilots pissed about it- but both sides would vote it in

And what I see is a Line Pilot that has decided to ignore the request of his Union Merger Committee, and pretend to have it ALL figured out.

I seriously doubt that ANYTHING said on this playground would have an effect on an SLI... but at least myself and 99.999% of the rest of the AirTran Pilots have decided to throw the Merger Committee a bone and abide by their request.

Why are you such in need of being the center of attention or simply being an internet blowhard... that you can't just STFU?

You aren't the ambassador that you think you are in speaking for YOUR expectations or realizations of what a SLI will look like.... you are simply the loggerhead that people on the Merger Committee have to address.

 

[PCL_128]

On another note, regarding your pilots who tend to go above and beyond to try to get the job done, does that include the those who use their free time while on medical leave to do car work in the driveway?

The real irony in your question is that he only got injured and was on OJI leave because he was going above and beyond and hurt himself climbing into a cargo compartment and doing everything he could to free a stroller that was wedged under a pile of bags to help out a disabled passenger.

Yeah, he's a real slacker.

 

[Angus]

Bullsheet. In 1994 they hired one is six. In 2002 they hired one in eight.

Since the mid-eighties it has been more difficult to get a job with SWA than any other carrier. The minimum hiring requirements have always been much higher than the other majors. Most hired with majors since the eighties didn't meet the minimum requirements. In my class they averaged the total time at around 4500 hours with 2300 turbine.

Those are the facts.

REALLY?!?! Wow... YOU and your classmates and your airline are the best and coolest on the whole playground.... err... I mean in the WHOLE WORLD.

Pilots arguing about who are the "bestest" = priceless. About as priceless as watching toddlers at daycare fight over a toy. With the SAME results I might add....

Carry on little Kiddies... you are all so cute at this age....

 

[Dash Power]

REALLY?!?! Wow... YOU and your classmates and your airline are the best and coolest on the whole playground.... err... I mean in the WHOLE WORLD.

Pilots arguing about who are the "bestest" = priceless. About as priceless as watching toddlers at daycare fight over a toy. With the SAME results I might add....

Carry on little Kiddies... you are all so cute at this age....

Does anyone else see the irony with this post?