The logic of relative seniority

[St. Nic]

Weather? WTF, did you learn to spell at the same place you learned about integrity? And since you refer to your saviors as MesaWest even though they have a much better contract than you, I shall refer to you as MesaLeast from now on.

You can keep your MesaWest maturity to yourselve, thank you. This is a discussion about the merits of DOH so keep on topic.

 

[Lonestar]

How about you just understand that all Southwest pilots want is date of hire seniority with conditions and restrictions. Allow all the Southwest fo's upgrade before any AAI fo can upgrade in to a Southwest base. The same holds true for Atlanta, that's the beauty of conditions and restrictions- to protect both sides while preserving date of hire for all. There would be no need for any of this discussion.

While I truly appreciate the perspective of someone completely uninvloved in our SLI summarizing the wishes of SWA pilots, I would have to say you're a bit off! If you gathered that SWA pilots want what you described above, then you are absolutely high!

Merry Christmas to all!!

 

[St. Nic]

Well, even if you staple the AT guys I personally don't think that is doing them a disservice Lonestar. That's not politically correct around here, but SWAPA does have the keys to mandate a seniority integration into ther bylaws. SWAPA has the keys to manage the integration however best it works out for them and the company as a whole. That's democracy/ the needs of the many outweigh the few

 

[Rough67]

- every other system of integration leads to the problems we have seen with DAL/ NWA ..

what problems?

 

[St. Nic]

Ok. Sorry

 

[Angus]

See... there IS common ground!!

While I truly appreciate the perspective of someone completely uninvloved in our SLI summarizing the wishes of SWA pilots, I would have to say you're a bit off! If you gathered that SWA pilots want what you described above, then you are absolutely high!

Merry Christmas to all!!

I am so glad to see you address his RIDICULOUS idea.

I am glad that you address that his suggestion is completely "off" for summarizing the perspectives of the Pilots actually involved in this acquisition of a company.... however a "merger" of Pilot group seniority lists.

Good to see that you speak out against his "high" ideas, and are coming around to the logical....

By the way.... since YOU brought it up in your post quoted above, and your entire profile on Flightinfo, and every post that you make is dedicated to "bludgeoning" this seniority list merger with your bitter resentment, and you are claiming in your post to "know" what the SWA pilot group wants.... please do tell.

What do the SWA Pilots want?

Oh... and a "sincere" Merry Christmas to you as well....

 

[waveflyer]

Thought you didn't want anyone disrespecting the mc's request to not talk about it angus--- vehemently even??

Or are you just an instigator?

How do you say you're not angry and emotional?
You're nothing but

 

[waveflyer]

But since you asked - in all this talk of DOH and relative seniority- it's important to note that bc of our little hiring spurt in '08- when tran had pilots out on furlough- the lists are interesting for lack of a better word- either of those scenarios will place CJ at the bottom of the combined list-- and the biggest tone I get from pilots on the line and across the country is any scenario that doesn't put a few hundred AT Pilots below CJ just won't get far politically-
No matter what you thought of it- that's what drove the staple talk during the frontier mess- it wasn't about Frontier(!) it was about our own internal politics- there is a sense from many that after age 65, the last contract decreased returns on profit sharing and much longer than historical upgrades that the junior have not been looked out for(not my feeling- but I hear it from captains)-- the idea that CJ would be an original SWA pilot and have all, or even almost all AT pilots above him wouldn't get 10% of the Swapa vote imHo-

Neither DOH or rel seniority address that...

 

[Angus]

Thought you didn't want anyone disrespecting the mc's request to not talk about it angus--- vehemently even??

Or are you just an instigator?

How do you say you're not angry and emotional?
You're nothing but

Just because YOU are unable to recognize the sarcasm in every word of every line in MY post (in response to Lonestar).... doesn't make anything you think or type in YOUR post above, apply to me.

In fact NOTHING in your post towards me is applicable...

 

[Angus]

But since you asked - in all this talk of DOH and relative seniority- it's important to note that bc of our little hiring spurt in '08- when tran had pilots out on furlough- the lists are interesting for lack of a better word- either of those scenarios will place CJ at the bottom of the combined list-- and the biggest tone I get from pilots on the line and across the country is any scenario that doesn't put a few hundred AT Pilots below CJ just won't get far politically-
No matter what you thought of it- that's what drove the staple talk during the frontier mess- it wasn't about Frontier(!) it was about our own internal politics- there is a sense from many that after age 65, the last contract decreased returns on profit sharing and much longer than historical upgrades that the junior have not been looked out for(not my feeling- but I hear it from captains)-- the idea that CJ would be an original SWA pilot and have all, or even almost all AT pilots above him wouldn't get 10% of the Swapa vote imHo-

Neither DOH or rel seniority address that...

I didn't "ask" you anything.... yet off to races you go. SLI... talk talk talk.

I didn't "ask" Lonestar anything of substance, except in a sarcastic, cynical, rhetorical, non-interested fashion.

Again... the fact you are unable to comprehend my point in my post to Lonestar... doesn't suddenly make me responsible for whatever attribute you suddenly place on me.

I don't care about anyones SLI beliefs and have said such, and respected such.

Try to slow down, keep an open mind, re-read my posts, and please don't bother placing YOUR thought process into my typed words.... because you are NOT even close.

 

[Groucho]

Speaking of dog's......

DOG FOR SALE : A guy is driving around the back woods of Montana and he sees a sign in front of a broken down shanty-style house: 'Talking Dog For Sale ' He rings the bell and the owner appears and tells him the dog is in the backyard. The guy goes into the backyard and sees a nice looking Labrador Retriever sitting there. 'You talk?' he asks. 'Yep,' the Lab replies.

After the guy recovers from the shock of hearing a dog talk, he says 'So, what's your story?' The Lab looks up and says, 'Well, I discovered that I could talk when I was pretty young. I wanted to help the government, so I told the CIA. In no time at all they had me jetting from country to country, sitting in rooms with spies and world leaders, because no one figured a dog would be eavesdropping.'

'I was one of their most valuable spies for eight years running. But the jetting around really tired me out, and I knew I wasn't getting any younger so I decided to settle down.' 'I signed up for a job at the airport to do some undercover security, wandering near suspicious characters and listening in. I uncovered some incredible dealings and was awarded a batch of medals.' 'I got married, had a mess of puppies, and now I'm just retired.'

The guy is amazed. He goes back in and asks the owner what he wants for the dog. 'Ten dollars,' the guy says. 'Ten dollars? This dog is amazing! Why on earth are you selling him so cheap?'

'Because he's a liar. He never did any of that sh**.'

 

[becket]

dude you are setting yourself up for 1 huge fall

Cactus boy, you are way off on your recollection of events. The east approached you guys about compromising on the biased arbitration decision and your side said no. NOw you have to live with USAPA and the DOH without any conditions and restrictions. You did this to yourself, blame your ALPA reps. The east pilots will move forward with DOH weather you like it or not, the blame rests with you! Look around, relative seniority doesn't work!

Dude, you are setting yourself up for one huge fall. Keep the CIRP number handy. when reality comes crashing down on you you'll need it.

 

[St. Nic]

I stand by my date of hire- there is no alternative!

 

[get2flyin]

I stand by my date of hire- there is no alternative!

And then you blame others for failing to be flexible in their positions. How unexpected.

 

[becket]

I stand by my date of hire- there is no alternative!

Your position is DOOMED.

 

[cactusboy53]

I stand by my date of hire- there is no alternative!

Then you are out-standing in a field with only 3000 of your closest AA friends. I stand by following a process and complying with an agreement that both parties said they would honor. I stand by keeping my word. I stand by not letting a larger group bully a smaller group with an endless web-cast of "date of hire".

Don't believe me? Standing with me is a respected Mediator/Arbitrator, two pilot neutrals, a federal district court judge, a impartial jury (less than 90 minutes to find USAPA guilty of a DFR), 1 appellate judge (primarily) & 2 appellate judges (not ripe YET, but most assuredly so with a contract that contains something other than the Nic). Not to mention 1800 AWA pilots and countless pilots from other carriers.

St. Nic, the SWA & AirTran pilots have a process of their own. They really don't want to hear how you plan on dodging a final & binding seniority award is a "Gold Standard". Heck they probably don't want to hear any AWA pilot attempt to logically argue the salient points of our little problem.

 

[ivauir]

Anyone know if there is a SWA/AAI process agreement yet? These AWA/US guys are makin me nervous.

 

[Tripower455]

What do the SWA Pilots want?

For the entire AT acquisition to go away. As I've said before, it's nothing personal, but this acquisition is the worst news, by far, that I've heard in my 15 years at SW and IMHO (I sincerely hope that I'm wrong) will prove to be a fatal mistake to our once great airline.

While it's far from scientifically accurate data, I have not talked to any SWA guys that want this acquisition to happen at all. The one exception is a junior FO who lives in ATL and wants to drive to work.

SW pilots, as a group, have little to gain and a lot to lose in this acquisition. Vice versa for the AT guys. Forgive me if I am not ecstatic about the deal.

 

[TWA Dude]

SW pilots, as a group, have little to gain and a lot to lose in this acquisition.

So complain to your employer. Whatever career stagnation you may suffer isn't the AT pilots' fault.

 

[Tripower455]

So complain to your employer. Whatever career stagnation you may suffer isn't the AT pilots' fault.

I'm not complaining to anyone. He asked a question, and I answered it.

FWIW, It's not our fault either, yet out of all the groups involved, SW pilots are the only ones with much to lose........