The logic of relative seniority

[doh]

And yes, the ratio will start after the 1992 and senior SWA guys have been put on top of the heap.

 

[vv100]

Just keep talking Richard, or do they call you Dick over there?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You sound silly! You really do!! MesaWest was a drag on the whole industry, complete with their Australian strike breakers and Miami drunks!

Oh, and shooting holes in the sides of airplanes, threatning federal employees with an ax, selling out your pensions, and bringing the bar far lower with your pay scales was any better? Pullleeeezzze, you have far more in common with mesa than America West ever will. At least Mesa makes better wages. Oh, and sport, so does America West.

Now these guys want our captain seats and attrition THAT I SACRIFICED FOR!!!

Captain seat? Are you for real? Your captain seat is still 20 years away, and that's for the guys that have been there for 20 years. Nice try junior. Stick to your 190, build up that time, and maybe you'll get a job at a real paying airline, like mesa.

News flash, the greedy PFTers that couldnt get hired anywere else will NEVER get my captain upgrade!
USAPA is the best money ever spent!!! Goodbye ALPA, hello Date of HIre seniority.

News flash, your actions put you below the 1983 hires of CAL pilots. Nobody will ever want anything to do with your worthless POS airline. This time, there won't be another America West to rescue you. You are an embarressment to the industry with your pathetic payraises. At least your 737 captains make less than what a 5 year southwest f/o makes. There's something to be proud of.
Keep sending your union money, they need it with all the lawsuits they're attracting. I'll look forward to your demise, so the cancer you call us airways can no longer pollute the industry.

 

[Flopgut]

Is it also perceived as fair that I would be junior to someone who has 7 years less longevity? Or how about 2 years longevity. When does being junior to anyone with less longevity fair?

Spin that one into fairness please.

They can't! This is batpoop crazy....

I think you are speaking about longevity vs. relative seniority, I asked them about longevity vs. DOH. I don't think their brains can process anything but the same crap.

St. Nic has spent time on CAL/UAL threads claiming the "larger UAL pilot group is in control of the merger". He's in favor of deciding what the fair way to come up with something is after he makes certain it's going to get him the result he wants. Because DOH does not work in all cases.

If you've got something to lose in a pilot merger, you're going to lose it! Sucks, but that's the way it is. SWA and CAL pilots are going to be worse off after these mergers. And to top it off, we'll have to be the ones that have the professionalism to keep the thing going.

Worst time in the history of this profession....

 

[Lear70]

Just keep talking Richard, or do they call you Dick over there?

You talkin' to me? YOU TALKIN' TO ME??

 

[SWA/FO]

I thought, he was talking to TY (not his real name)......our 9th round pick in the trannyDRAFT 2011.

 

[Lear70]

Ty's real name isn't Richard... MINE, however, is...

When this is all over, I'd love to see the TrannyDraft conversations, something tells me they'd be pretty hilarious. :beer:

 

[SWA/FO]

Lear70 - you a former freightDOG? CherryAir, Ameristar or Reliant?

 

[Ty Webb]

Your continuous copping out speaks volumes.

Well since the whole scenario was hypotherical I suppose I could add that the theoretical AAI/VA acquisition occurs two years from now after 8 profitable quarters from VA. Would you then believe that VA/AAI would be fair? 08VA in front of 93AAI, 07VA capt over every single AAI FO (since your preaching seat protection).

Sound fair TY?

This is just stupid.

I'll give you valid frame of reference, Hose. When we (AAI) made an offer for Midex, there was much discussion on the Line about how the integration would work (this is before we were ALPA). The most common discussions I heard had Midex getting relative seniority. Why? Because the airplanes and the flying and the pilots were all coming into the operation. There was no perceived harm in being at the same percentage on a blended list, and I don't know of anyone who thought our FO's were going to be displacing Midex MD80 Captains.

 

[Lear70]

Ayuh. Express One and Kalitta. Those were the days...

It's been an "interesting" career (Instructing, Charter, Fractional, Freight, Regional, Major, turboprops, jets, and lots of fun times and great coworkers I still hang out with to this day). They were all good places in one way or another, and I left on good terms from all my previous jobs, but I'm hoping the SWA uniform will be the last one I ever have to put on... I have enough previous life's wings, hats, and pictures on my office shelf!

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

This is just stupid.

I'll give you valid frame of reference, Hose. When we (AAI) made an offer for Midex, there was much discussion on the Line about how the integration would work (this is before we were ALPA). The most common discussions I heard had Midex getting relative seniority. Why? Because the airplanes and the flying and the pilots were all coming into the operation. There was no perceived harm in being at the same percentage on a blended list, and I don't know of anyone who thought our FO's were going to be displacing Midex MD80 Captains.

I would like to hear an opinion from an AAI FO on this matter. 180 degrees opposite from yours im guessing.

If your FOs had been with the company longer than the Midex Captains (not sure if this was the case), they had every right to expect displacement (and pay protection for the displaced).

If a 5 year captain keeps his seat in front of an 8 year F.O. that is an ABSOLUTE DISPLACEMENT.

 

[Dash Power]

The hypocrisy is amazing. Reverse the situation and the Ty would be screaming bloody murder how unfair relative seniority would be. I honestly would hope for the best but know my company sold my butt and threw my future up into the air.

How can anyone think that being junior to anyone with less longevity is fair. Seniority is about time in service. Period. Absolutely no entitlement other than what your seniority has to offer. Whether it is a captain seat or the bottom of the list.

I can understand some aspects of seat protections. I am certain any reasonable person can. But if anyone who has put in less time than me who is getting my vacation or line that I want in my base that I have been for 17 years, I will be pissed.

 

[MCDU]

The hypocrisy is amazing. Reverse the situation and the Ty would be screaming bloody murder how unfair relative seniority would be. I honestly would hope for the best but know my company sold my butt and threw my future up into the air.

How can anyone think that being junior to anyone with less longevity is fair. Seniority is about time in service. Period. Absolutely no entitlement other than what your seniority has to offer. Whether it is a captain seat or the bottom of the list.

I can understand some aspects of seat protections. I am certain any reasonable person can. But if anyone who has put in less time than me who is getting my vacation or line that I want in my base that I have been for 17 years, I will be pissed.

Good post. This is exactly how it should be done.

Ask any NWA, AAA pilot and they feel the same. The funny thing is that if it goes relative, the pilots with less time will get their DOH and the others get slotted in. It is a win win for the group with less years put in when relative is used. They still get DOH and get put ahead of pilots with more time invested. That is why one group will totally like that outcome. (Delta or AWA).

Putting workers with less time ahead is huge factor why we have all these discussions. Try using a relative method with some other work groups. They would not touch it, because they know how workers feel when they get put behind someone with less time.

We have AWA/AAA, CAL/United, Polar/Atlas and MEH/F9/RAH/Lynx all going no where. I guess we can add SWA/Airtran soon. All this because pilots abandoned the golden standard involved with Workgroups. DOH

M

 

[Ty Webb]

The hypocrisy is amazing. Reverse the situation and the Ty would be screaming bloody murder how unfair relative seniority would be.

It's pretty hard to scream when you find yourself at the same place on a blended list.

"My God! I went from 30.77% on the old SWA list to 30.77% on the blended list! Oh, the humanity!

 

[Dash Power]

It's pretty hard to scream when you find yourself at the same place on a blended list.

"My God! I went from 30.77% on the old SWA list to 30.77% on the blended list! Oh, the humanity!

And you would have been 44.99 percent on the old list. Which is a fair place for you to be because you worked less than the others before you.