The logic of relative seniority

[St. Nic]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! You were trying to make us laugh with that statement, weren't you?

No, I was serious bud! MesaWest was facing bankrupcy and drew up a plan called Zanzibar if the deal with USAirways fell through. MesaWest was out of cash and against the ropes, now the PFTers want our captain seats. Talk about entitlement!!!

 

[St. Nic]

You're right, they would have liquidated, along with their substandard wages and the catalyst for selling out pensions.
Too bad they just didn't go away like they were supposed to. They are a cancer to the industry and should have been left to die.


Metrojet? What's that? Another failed idea by us airways? Is that after the first or second bankruptcy?



The only thing your DOH brought to the merger was a furlough, sport. Well that, and substandard wages, loss of pension, 2 bankruptcies and the worst reputation the industry has, less the 1983 hires at CAL.
Your airline was days, yes days away from liquidation. America West saved you. And that's a fact Jack!

You sound silly! You really do!! MesaWest was a drag on the whole industry, complete with their Australian strike breakers and Miami drunks! Now these guys want our captain seats and attrition THAT I SACRIFICED FOR!!! News flash, the greedy PFTers that couldnt get hired anywere else will NEVER get my captain upgrade!
USAPA is the best money ever spent!!! Goodbye ALPA, hello Date of HIre seniority.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

It's pretty obvious what their financial position is when they had several recent "capital calls" beacuse they required an infusion of large sums of money from its investors to stay afloat, and now this, the first announcement of a profitable quarter, their financial condition is very much different than AirTran, which has been profitable for 9 out of the last 10 years.

Jose, you want me to say something I disagree with. It ain't gonna happen.

Your continuous copping out speaks volumes.

Well since the whole scenario was hypotherical I suppose I could add that the theoretical AAI/VA acquisition occurs two years from now after 8 profitable quarters from VA. Would you then believe that VA/AAI would be fair? 08VA in front of 93AAI, 07VA capt over every single AAI FO (since your preaching seat protection).

Sound fair TY?

 

[Bwipilot]

Exactly. As a previous poster said, BOTH SWA and AAI have exactly the same career expectations....737 CA. So you can throw out that old saw. Pay rates? Another non-starter except in the minds of the "Staple 'em" crowd.

If pay rates don't matter, then why didn't AAI pilots agree to a contract several years ago?

I'd guess the fact that Airtran was subsidizing growth with lower payrates for the past several years with lower pay rates. That's reason number one that SWA pilots won't be happy with relative seniority. We bargained for a solid contract ten years ago while AAI pilots continued at basement wages--which allowed AAI to grow at a fast pace.

Having the AAI pilots trade their accecptance of substandard wages for increased seniority after the merger sets a bad precedent. Instead of bargaining for a good contracts, pilots will start negotiating for a contract that will put themselves in a good position after a merger.

 

[doh]

Bwipilot, I don't think you will get relative seniority. You will get a ratio. But I also don't think you will bump Trannies out of their captain seats either. I could be wrong on that score, but that is my prognostication.

 

[doh]

And yes, the ratio will start after the 1992 and senior SWA guys have been put on top of the heap.

 

[vv100]

Just keep talking Richard, or do they call you Dick over there?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

You sound silly! You really do!! MesaWest was a drag on the whole industry, complete with their Australian strike breakers and Miami drunks!

Oh, and shooting holes in the sides of airplanes, threatning federal employees with an ax, selling out your pensions, and bringing the bar far lower with your pay scales was any better? Pullleeeezzze, you have far more in common with mesa than America West ever will. At least Mesa makes better wages. Oh, and sport, so does America West.

Now these guys want our captain seats and attrition THAT I SACRIFICED FOR!!!

Captain seat? Are you for real? Your captain seat is still 20 years away, and that's for the guys that have been there for 20 years. Nice try junior. Stick to your 190, build up that time, and maybe you'll get a job at a real paying airline, like mesa.

News flash, the greedy PFTers that couldnt get hired anywere else will NEVER get my captain upgrade!
USAPA is the best money ever spent!!! Goodbye ALPA, hello Date of HIre seniority.

News flash, your actions put you below the 1983 hires of CAL pilots. Nobody will ever want anything to do with your worthless POS airline. This time, there won't be another America West to rescue you. You are an embarressment to the industry with your pathetic payraises. At least your 737 captains make less than what a 5 year southwest f/o makes. There's something to be proud of.
Keep sending your union money, they need it with all the lawsuits they're attracting. I'll look forward to your demise, so the cancer you call us airways can no longer pollute the industry.

 

[Flopgut]

Is it also perceived as fair that I would be junior to someone who has 7 years less longevity? Or how about 2 years longevity. When does being junior to anyone with less longevity fair?

Spin that one into fairness please.

They can't! This is batpoop crazy....

I think you are speaking about longevity vs. relative seniority, I asked them about longevity vs. DOH. I don't think their brains can process anything but the same crap.

St. Nic has spent time on CAL/UAL threads claiming the "larger UAL pilot group is in control of the merger". He's in favor of deciding what the fair way to come up with something is after he makes certain it's going to get him the result he wants. Because DOH does not work in all cases.

If you've got something to lose in a pilot merger, you're going to lose it! Sucks, but that's the way it is. SWA and CAL pilots are going to be worse off after these mergers. And to top it off, we'll have to be the ones that have the professionalism to keep the thing going.

Worst time in the history of this profession....

 

[Lear70]

Just keep talking Richard, or do they call you Dick over there?

You talkin' to me? YOU TALKIN' TO ME??