The logic of relative seniority

[Ty Webb]

Seems like good business sense. But you are covering up the point, again.

Over the years I flown with a half dozen AT guys. Both Captains and FO's. None on the bottom of the list.

Just thought I would give you something else to spin while you are on leave.

Send it over to your MC, mastermind. I'm sure the arbitrators will be impressed.

Pay rates change from Contract to Contract. Seniority does not. Right now SWA rates are the top. A few years from now, who knows?

 

[orangebellyav8r]

Seniority does change....YOU WILL BE ON THE BOTTOM...enjoy it

 

[Ty Webb]

Seniority does change....YOU WILL BE ON THE BOTTOM...enjoy it

You really don't have anything intelligent to say, do you? Is this supposed to be proof of SWA's "superior" pilot hiring? Or the tremendous culture we should eagerly sacrifice our seniority for?

 

[T3700]

I think that SWAPA must have put out the word not to expect a staple and to expect something more reasonable for both sides. That may explain the temper tantrums and frantic demands for a staple or nothing by some junior SWA F/O's. Of course seeing how well the threats of "take a staple or lose your job" would play on Airtran's behalf at any arbitration, maybe the posters are really Airtran guys in disguise.

 

[Flopgut]

At the very least, Bond McCaskill is in play here, right?

CAL/UAL has an agreement that (at least for the time it is in effect) provides for ALPA merger policy even if we leave ALPA.

 

[St. Nic]

I think that SWAPA must have put out the word not to expect a staple and to expect something more reasonable for both sides. That may explain the temper tantrums and frantic demands for a staple or nothing by some junior SWA F/O's. Of course seeing how well the threats of "take a staple or lose your job" would play on Airtran's behalf at any arbitration, maybe the posters are really Airtran guys in disguise.

SWAPA controls the merger, the 9th even ruled that USAPA doesn't have to present the arbitrated seniority list between the two groups and that is exactly what USAPA is doing. There is no such thing as final and binding in arbitration and a relevant case is unfolding as we speak to support that exact premise. Don't want to mention the forbidden merger here, even though it is 100% relavant!!!

 

[Lear70]

You're allowed, St. Nic.

This isn't a SWA/AAI thread, this is a "The Logic of Relative Seniority" thread whereby many different airlines' integrations have been mentioned on both sides of the argument.

The only restriction on the UAir/AWA thread posts is when they hijack SOMEONE ELSE'S thread, i.e. "AAI Pilots Beware!" or one of the other SWA topics out there.

/mod

 

[GuppyWN]

Send it over to your MC, mastermind. I'm sure the arbitrators will be impressed.

Pay rates change from Contract to Contract. Seniority does not. Right now SWA rates are the top. A few years from now, who knows?

SWA has ALWAYS paid more in pay and benefits than AAI.

Gup

 

[Lonestar]

I hear we have a few hundred apps from your last few hundred newhires, too. Seems they were hedging their bets as well.

I hear you also have a few hundred pilots who interviewed, unsuccessfully, at SWA. I guess they were all happy to go to the bottom of our list. It sure seems strange why so many guys tried to leave AAI for SWA when they are such 'equals'!

Don't worry though trannies, I'm sure that's just another thing the arbitrators won't consider.

Btw, exactly what were they 'hedging their bets' against Ty? A furlough? Oh no, that was your airline. I know, I know...that was just mgmt fear tactics so the arbitrator can't consider that either.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Your position is DOOMED.

So is his career.
The chq east pilots position was doomed all along. It's amazing that even someone with little intelligence such as st. nic can't see it. Of course 25 years in the right seat will do that to him.
The chq east pilots were days away from becoming Walmart greeters for the rest of their careers, which in the end, would have been a bump in pay.:laugh:

 

[redflyer65]

There is absolutely no logic to realitive seniority, especially when the parties a not equals..

Kinda like Virgin American merging with American. Your gonna tell me that would be logical? No way.

Similar, the Southwest/Airtran merger is the opposite ends of the spectrum. Just the way it is.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

? Your post makes no since. ?
Southwest embraces DOH, that is the point!
USAPA embraces DOH, see the commonality?

And for the billionth time USAir was not going to liquidate, the financing was in place to give to AWA and bring them under the USAir umbrella.
Our union is negotiating right now to put us up there with Delta and United and I am sure we will be above that. We will get our retro and snap back and we have our date of hire after the appeals court ruling. Life is so very good for this east pilot!

Man, you really are on crack. I remember watching the CEO say US Air will liquidate if no suitor is found. He was talking from DCA I believe. It was on the morning news. Mysteriously at the same time they were financing the purchase of AWA? Wow. The CEO must have just been mistaken? Get over it buddy, you were out of a job. No matter what you recreate. I saw him on the TV. Not anyone else, or hearsay, it was the CEO.

One thing I will say about ALPA, the first quarter you guys and AWA came out of the merger there was something like a $300 million profit. Why ALPA, or the pilots a US Air didn't set the brake and demand your retirement back will always be a question to me. It would have stopped all of this. You guys have taken it in the shorts for so many years, I was amazed it didn't happen. ALPA National does suck. It will be dealt with in the long run, but the individual pilots could have taken that by the horns also.

You've got to get over the US Air was in great shape though, I just can't forget that guy on the news saying it was over within 30 or 60 days.

 

[kwick]

There is absolutely no logic to realitive seniority, especially when the parties a not equals..

Kinda like Virgin American merging with American. Your gonna tell me that would be logical? No way.

Similar, the Southwest/Airtran merger is the opposite ends of the spectrum. Just the way it is.

Career expectations, B737 Capt., are the same.

Airtran pilots have an expectation of
Much quicker upgrades. It's not
Even close to being equal.

Senior Airtrans First Officers should have
Their upgrades protected.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

There is absolutely no logic to realitive seniority, especially when the parties a not equals..

Kinda like Virgin American merging with American. Your gonna tell me that would be logical? No way.

Similar, the Southwest/Airtran merger is the opposite ends of the spectrum. Just the way it is.

You're right. Air Tran was a growing airline with fast upgrades. Southwest was not. Air Tran pilots got hired by interviewing, not by buying their jobs.
Air Tran pilots should have a higher seniority than southwest pilots when this thing pans out.

 

[ASADFW7]

Career expectations, B737 Capt., are the same.

Airtran pilots have an expectation of
Much quicker upgrades. It's not
Even close to being equal.

Senior Airtrans First Officers should have
Their upgrades protected.

Dude, this thinking will lock this process down where you sit with your existing pay rates till hell freezes over. Sorry if this happens, SW pilots will fricking freak out, and this will never see the light of day.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Don't worry, it will never happen. Most likely:

1. No bump/no flush
2. Pre-1992 SWA pilots on the list
3. Ratio the rest

Easy, squeezy, lemon peasy.

 

[Tripower455]

Career expectations, B737 Capt., are the same.

Airtran pilots have an expectation of
Much quicker upgrades. It's not
Even close to being equal.

Senior Airtrans First Officers should have
Their upgrades protected.

Not to mention the expectation of a strike, low pay and lousy management!

 

[FlyinGuy]

Shhhhh....Tripower, they are trying to rewrite history.

 

[bladeusa]

neutral arbitrator.. fair and equitable..
let both sides give their case, there are merits to both. weigh it out, make a decision and move on. whatever happens, lets not turn this into usairways part2.

 

[ivauir]

Career expectations, B737 Capt., are the same.

Airtran pilots have an expectation of
Much quicker upgrades. It's not
Even close to being equal.

Senior Airtrans First Officers should have
Their upgrades protected.

Your career expectations are satisfied by coming under our contract (superior to Captain pay under your contract).

Protecting SWA pilot career expectations is much more difficult, but is required for a fair and equitable solution.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Your career expectations are satisfied by coming under our contract (superior to Captain pay under your contract).

Again, career expectations:

SWA pilot - 737 CA
AAI pilot - 737 CA

That's all you have to know. All this LUV chatter about pay is an attempt to justify stapling the AAI pilots. Shame on you.

 

[Cometman]

You really don't have anything intelligent to say, do you? Is this supposed to be proof of SWA's "superior" pilot hiring? Or the tremendous culture we should eagerly sacrifice our seniority for?

Nobody other than you and Lear70 has anything intelligent to say. You are on a medical or something like that and hopefully you won't be back. lear70 will be hated over at SWA just like he is at Air Tran. What a shame. But hopefully the other 95% of Air Tran will see the light.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm no expert at karma, Cometman, but if I were you, and I heard banjos, I would run. :laugh:

BTW, you're wrong on pretty much all counts. When you and the other "orange-bellied extremists" make these pronouncements about individual AAI Pilots, you end up sounding pretty stupid.

 

[doh]

Don't worry, it will never happen. Most likely:

1. No bump/no flush
2. Pre-1992 SWA pilots on the list
3. Ratio the rest

Easy, squeezy, lemon peasy.

I think it will look something like that too.

 

[OK3]

Don't worry, it will never happen. Most likely:

1. No bump/no flush
2. Pre-1992 SWA pilots on the list
3. Ratio the rest

Easy, squeezy, lemon peasy.

I think your logic train derailed. Why do you think DOH matters pre 1992 (which is the wrong date I think anyway) but not post 1992? It seems that you think it has to do with when AAi began in its current form. Why does that matter? If you think relative is "the only fair way" why do you carve out some section of the seniority list?

 

[say again]

Why did Cometman get the boot?? Did he hurt Lears feelings or something?

 

[redflyer65]

Career expectations, B737 Capt., are the same.

Airtran pilots have an expectation of
Much quicker upgrades. It's not
Even close to being equal.

Senior Airtrans First Officers should have
Their upgrades protected.

Really? You guys must be smokin' some good stuff. Let me ask you one question...

Was your career expectations the same on Sept. 26th vs Sept. 27th? Not even close my friend..

Just heard that AAI pilots, taken as a whole, will average over 7,000 dollars more a month for every month after the acquisition.

Now tell me logically how your career expectations didn't change...please. Especially when senior SW FO's make more that most of your Captains.

 

[RedDogC130]

I'm no expert at karma, Cometman, but if I were you, and I heard banjos, I would run. :laugh:

BTW, you're wrong on pretty much all counts. When you and the other "orange-bellied extremists" make these pronouncements about individual AAI Pilots, you end up sounding pretty stupid.

Ty,

Comet man had no dog in this fight yet I kind of like his no bs view. He/she called it like it was. Part of me thinks this site is a scheme charging people $10 then kicking them off for violating the rules yet when Ty or other possibly break them...nothing happens. Ty and Lear karma is b...... So you say....time will tell for you

Note to moderators and webmaster....charging people then kicking then off is close to ripping them off. Are you willing to give me a refund if I want leave?

 

[GuppyWN]

Again, career expectations:

SWA pilot - 737 CA
AAI pilot - 737 CA

That's all you have to know. All this LUV chatter about pay is an attempt to justify stapling the AAI pilots. Shame on you.

So if Delta bought Virgin America then all the Virgin guys would keep their seat?

Cool!

Gup

 

[jonjuan]

So if Delta bought Virgin America then all the Virgin guys would keep their seat?

Cool!

Gup

Nope-not even close to being equal (equipment, profit, etc).