Tale from Go Jet jumpseat!

[Shrek]

Remember to the company......we are NOT co-workers but seperate companies.

Yeah......of course we are.......

 

[redbook]

Actually having many family members in the medical profession I beg to differ. However, the insurance companies do it for them. When one medical group's rates get too high the insurance companies start altering the networks, changing the formularies, etc...

So what's your point ??? Do you really think the "shiny new" syndrome is characteristic of only one group of pilots ? How about the Comair concessions for jets ? (that really worked out great)

You post like the g0jet scum you defend. WHo is talking about Comair? Bring in any other issue except the relevant one. But hey what would expect from a guy who said he would undercut his fellow pilots in a previous post a few days ago. Stop lecturing so much, Mr. "formularies"

You are so spineless, no wonder you would gladly work at g0jet.

 

[TSA145]

Just curious as to what other professions you believe would allow employees to act like children or verbally insult other co-workers without it resulting in termination ? None that I can think of, at least not in today's politically correct world. Especially in a profession that transports the general public at 35,000 ft. How would you like your surgeons arguing with each other while getting ready to slice you open ???

Let me see if I understand you correctly:
If your F/O tells you on a private conversation at work that such and such (from a different company who has stabbed you in the back) is in a-hole, then you turn around and ask your boss to fire him because of that?????

 

[h25b]

Let me see if I understand you correctly:
If your F/O tells you on a private conversation at work that such and such (from a different company who has stabbed you in the back) is in a-hole, then you turn around and ask your boss to fire him because of that?????

Do whatever you want, I'm just saying that it is not all that uncommon to get your a$$ fired for just being a jerk. I understand this is a difficult concept to grasp for an average union goon. Like the other guy said, it's typically smarter to just let your MEC fight your battles.

But hey what would expect from a guy who said he would undercut his fellow pilots in a previous post a few days ago. Stop lecturing so much, Mr. "formularies"

You are so spineless, no wonder you would gladly work at g0jet.

I knew you'd be here soon to save the day...

 

[incubus]

stop comparing us to doctors. we ain't doctors. when will this get across to some of you?

 

[h25b]

I was merely making the point that union pilots have this incredibly naive notion that they are somehow immune to the expectations of your typical workplace. I don't care where you work, but if you decide to start being a jerk to fellow workers or anyone else for that matter you can reasonably expect to be shown the door.

 

[BoilerUP]

Do whatever you want, I'm just saying that it is not all that uncommon to get your a$$ fired for just being a jerk. I understand this is a difficult concept to grasp for an average union goon. Like the other guy said, it's typically smarter to just let your MEC fight your battles.

Why the farkin' arrogant, conceited attitude? It must be really wonderful high up there, having never called somebody else you've worked with an a**hole. The pilot is letting his MEC fight his battles. He made an offhand comment about somebody who is negatively affecting his pay and QOL (that he thought was made in confidence) and could be terminated because of that? When did people grow manginas and quit speaking up when they were offended? Why tattle on a coworker???

It must be nice not to have to lower yourself into the slum of organized labor.

 

[h25b]

Why the farkin' arrogant, conceited attitude? It must be really wonderful high up there, having never called somebody else you've worked with an a**hole. The pilot is letting his MEC fight his battles. He made an offhand comment about somebody who is negatively affecting his pay and QOL (that he thought was made in confidence) and could be terminated because of that? When did people grow manginas and quit speaking up when they were offended? Why tattle on a coworker???

It must be nice not to have to lower yourself into the slum of organized labor.

To the casual observer, it probably could be misunderstood as a "slum." Please fill me in on exactly what I said that was incorrect... Not what you disagree with, but exactly what I said that is factually incorrect.

As far as I can tell, we have a super hypocrite starting a thread that: (1) made up this entire BS story, (2) doesn't mind putting himself in to a supposed unsafe environment, & (3) doesn't mind putting his personal diifferences aside for a free ride home... NICE...

 

[BoilerUP]

To the casual observer, it probably could be misunderstood as a "slum." Please fill me in on exactly what I said that was incorrect... Not what you disagree with, but exactly what I said that is factually incorrect.

What you said wasn't factually incorrect. If you are stupid as an employee, you can get fired for that. Whether or not its ethical or practical for somebody to tattle on you like an 8 year old for a petty insult toward a third party (especially when something like Pro Standards exists) is an entirely different discussion.

The matter in which you made your statement, specifically this line, is what I had a problem with.

I understand this is a difficult concept to grasp for an average union goon.

I don't understand why you would insult TSA145 as being a "union goon". What good does that accomplish, and what does it add to the discussion? NOTHING. It makes you come off as a holier-than-thou corporate prick that holds your non-union position above those who are organized. Perhaps thats just my reaction and I could be wrong.

Would YOU report one of YOUR coworkers to your management and have them terminated if they simply called a third coworker an a**hole?

 

[h25b]

It makes you come off as a holier-than-thou corporate prick that holds your non-union position above those who are organized. Perhaps thats just my reaction and I could be wrong.

Would YOU report one of YOUR coworkers to your management and have them terminated if they simply called a third coworker an a**hole?

Actually your reaction is wrong. I just think you'd all be doing yourself a favor by toning it down a notch.

Would I terminate an employee that was a real pain in the arse and turning the workplace in to a battleground ? You bet. And I'd guess that's where TSA management is going with this. But that's how it works in my world. You guys have your way of doing things, we have ours. If that's how you'd like to do business plan on staying with the airlines.

I can't figure out how you guys can't see that what you are doing will get you nowhere. Yes, denying a jumpseat may yield a certain personal satisfaction but it obviously may get you shown the door and will take your cause nowhere.

Like I said...

As far as I can tell, we have a super hypocrite starting a thread that: (1) made up this entire BS story, (2) doesn't mind putting himself in to a supposed unsafe environment, & (3) doesn't mind putting his personal diifferences aside for a free ride home... NICE...

Keep up the jumpseat war, it's worked so well in the past...

 

[BoilerUP]

Actually your reaction is wrong.

So then why did you refer to him as a "typical union goon"? I'm pretty sure TSA145 hasn't busted any knees, had anybody whacked, or orchestrated any sickouts at Christmas.

I just think you'd all be doing yourself a favor by toning it down a notch.

I would agree with you here, but that street runs both ways. However it goes, people need to remain professional.

Would I terminate an employee that was a real pain in the arse and turning the workplace in to a battleground ? You bet. And I'd guess that's where TSA management is going with this. But that's how it works in my world. You guys have your way of doing things, we have ours. If that's how you'd like to do business plan on staying with the airlines.

The problem with this statement is at most airlines the pilot group (and employees in general) is viewed as a liability and not an asset. In your corporate job (and darn near every 91 operation I am aware of), the pilots are viewed as an important business asset. If you called your boss an a**hole, you'd probably be on the street...but if you called a fellow pilot an ass and your boss found out, he'd probably tell you to grow up, be a man, and work out your differences. TSA management isn't quite as accomodating.

If calling somebody an a**hole is grounds for firing (and is the only offensive thing they've done), you, me and every other pilot would be out of a job permanently. If you can honestly say you've never called a coworker, a supervisor, an associate or somebody you've run into on the road in this profession an a**hole, then you are much better than I and 99% of everybody else. Even though such namecalling is childish and somewhat unprofessional, that is among the many reasons Pro Standards exists (especially at ALPA carriers). When pilots lose their jobs because other pilots start tattling to management about petty crap such as this (and yes, 7th grade namecalling is petty), the situation has gotten absurd.

I can't figure out how you guys can't see that what you are doing will get you nowhere. Yes, denying a jumpseat may yield a certain personal satisfaction but it obviously may get you shown the door and will take your cause nowhere.

When did we start talking about a jumpseat war again? The jumpseat thing is a beaten horse, and I agree with you about it; I was under the distinct impression we were talking about somebody being suspended pending termination because a fellow line pilot tattled to management that he had called a GJ pilot in back an a**hole.

As far as I can tell, we have a super hypocrite starting a thread that: (1) made up this entire BS story, (2) doesn't mind putting himself in to a supposed unsafe environment, & (3) doesn't mind putting his personal diifferences aside for a free ride home... NICE...

As I said before, I agree with you regarding the flamebaiting nature of this thread and how absurd it was to accept a ride and then make accusations on the internet. I bet he even smiled and said please and thanks when accepting the JS, too....

 

[h25b]

Let's go back and read.... I stated, "I understand this is a difficult concept to grasp for an average union goon." This was in no way meant to be a direct insult to "TSA145" but more as a general declaration to all of those (and they are many) that believe intimidation and ridicule directly against the GJ pilots is the way to go. Especially the idiot (yes, that is a direct insult) that started this BS thread to begin with...

 

[TSA145]

h25b:

I'm not a union guy. When I work for a company I'm the company's biggest fan. If my company does well then I probably will do well too. However when you have a crook like our chief pilot ruining pilots careers and lifes it bothers me. Big time. When a coworker turns somebody in for such a petty action like this one, it bothers me. It's wrong. There are other avenues to deal with situations like this. If you are a real captain you should coach the person not ruin his/her career for something like this.

 

[BoilerUP]

Especially the idiot (yes, that is a direct insult) that started this BS thread to begin with...

I gots no problem with that, boss :beer:

 

[treetopflyer]

If one of our Alpa brothers (i use that term loosely) was fired for denying a jumpseat maybe your mec should read this that we were given for just such a situation between two not so friendly groups in the throes of a merger.




The FAA has consistently determined that the PIC has the ability to deny ANYONE access to the cockpit. The following paraphrased excerpts are taken directly from an FAA legal interpretation prepared by the Donald Byrne FAA Assistant Chief Counsel.

"…the regulatory scope of the PIC’s authority – in situations governed by Sections 121.547(a)(3) or (4) – is unlimited since he is the person on the scene who is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crew, cargo, and aircraft during flight. In situations involving Sections 121.547(a)(3) or (4), the Federal Aviation Regulations contain no language for someone – not even an FAA official – to second guess the PIC’s decision to deny permission to someone seeking admission to the flight deck…"

"PICs can be held accountable if something in their control on the flight deck causes a violation of the safety rules. A PIC might make a judgment that something in particular about a person seeking to enter the flight deck might distract the flight crew. That assessment by the PIC to deny permission to admit someone to the flight deck cannot be second guessed, even if the potential jumpseat rider is assessed as probably being a quiet-non-interfering jumpseat rider. Even the condition of the flight crew itself might be a factor the PIC considers in deciding whether to grant permission to someone to enter the flight deck… Conduct by anyone that chills a PIC’s ability to deny permission for flight deck admission in Section 121.547(a)(3) or (a)(4) situations, including post flight disciplinary proceedings concerning a decision to deny permission, interferes with the PIC’s duties and responsibilities under the safety regulations. Such conduct can result in the issuance of an FAA Cease and Desist Order or other FAA Order."

Crewmembers, the FAA is very plain on this issue. Questioning the captain’s decision to deny someone access to the cockpit contests his authority as the PIC. Additionally, the FAA says "…the flight deck is the nerve center of the flight and the PIC has the unfettered authority to deny permission for someone seeking to enter the flight deck under Section 121.547(a)(3) or (4). In such a situation, if there is a seat aft of the flight deck, the person who is denied admission to the flight deck can occupy a seat aft of the flight deck (separated by a bulkhead door or a flight crew compartment door)."

The bottom line is this – the PIC has the unfettered authority to exclude anyone from his flight deck – if he does this to an FAA inspector or an authorized representative of the NTSB performing official duties, he must do so under his emergency authority as mentioned in the FAR, basically if you use your emergency authority you have to explain or file a report.

However, If the PIC excludes a person under 121.547(a)(3) or (4) he or she is doing so as the PIC responsible for the safe conduct of the flight, not under emergency authority and he or she cannot be questioned or disciplined for it; and in fact, doesn’t have to explain it to anyone.

Captains, if you for any reason feel that you do not want to carry someone in your cockpit, you have a responsibility to deny them boarding.

For information purposes 121.547(a)(3) and (4) includes deadheading crewmembers, OAL jumpseat riders, company jumpseat riders, any and all company personnel, company mechanics, grooms, and couriers.
h25b(iatch)

dont concern yourself with all that part 121.xxx mumbo jumbo, it doesnt concern those who fly part 91

 

[jwes]

Sorry but I'm taking over this thread...

The picture that "The Drizzle" has for his name (first page of thread)is got to be the ugliest baby I've ever seen, hope he is not related

 

[jwes]

Oh and GJ suck for flying for such cheap pay.

 

[ACT700]

Call it flame if you wish? But the story is true.

I was regretfully in the GJ actual:

Temp -3C

climbing off ORD

ICE caution EICAS comes on,

FO and CAPT look up at overhead not sure what to do,

they see the ice light test pushbutton illuminated,

FO pushes it,

not desired result,

then CAPT says, "I think we need to turn on the cowls?"

they do so, and I step up and tell them they also need the wings.

EFFIN SCARY!!!!!

Nope, not putting my family on blow jets, and neither should you!

-GOO

What I don't quite understand is, that you all hate *************************s, because they operate the way they do. I'm not going into the entire GJ/scab thing or whatever it is-it's irrelevant to me.

So, all of that badmouthing, GJ are scabs, etc..., yet, you ride their jumpseat?

Enlighten me.....I'm at a loss.

 

[ACT700]

What, I can't say G o Je t s?

WTF.com, you people need to take that arse plug and carefully re-insert it into the proper hole!

 

[ksu_aviator]

If you want to stop the regional airline slide...don't fight with other pilots or management. Just take your case to the court of public opinion. IMHO ALPA needs to step up to the plate and produce an ad campaign that makes the public aware of the wages and experience of the pilots that fly the unkowing passengers on those shiny new jets.

The best way to do this would be to introduce legislation to the federal government mandating a minimum wage for part 121 pilots. It would never pass, but that isn't the point. The point would be that it would make news. Every news agency would be debating the idea of a minimum wage for an industry. In those debates people would point out current wages and what type of experience these pilots have. ALPA could send representatives to CNN, MSNBC, FOXNEWS and every other news agency spewing the numbers and making the case for the legislation. When it is all said and done the majority of the public will know what the regional airlines are and what they do. They'll demand better, more experienced pilots. And the only way to get there is to raise wages to attract pilots that are currently taking corporate and charter jobs because they still pay descent.