Ta reached at 9e

[JustaNumber]

Even if an agreement is never reached (Voted Down), 9E pilots will have between 12 to 24 months at Deltaknuckle before anything material happens. Before then, there will be a mass exodus to these other carriers and Deltaknuckle will have a pilot shortage and will not be able to complete flights. Let swim in their Pig swaller!

That's an excellent point. When they can't complete flights, their performance penalties will render their new financial plan moot, and the future viability of the airline will be called into question, and more aircraft will leave in a vicious cycle just like at Comair. It seems like the end is being planned on purpose.

I honestly wish the best future career luck for all of you at 9E.

 

[FOrever85]

I think it's perfectly understandable that he's a little cranky, and isn't too excited about his future prospects. Cut him some slack!

I'm not cranky, I was laughing the whole time I wrote that. It is fun busting on a guy that time and time again is such an arrogant prick.

Hey general, the Mesaba guys you claim were such idiots for turning down the flow, let me explain why it was quite the opposite. (Since you bring it up time and time again)

They sat down with XJ's and NWA contract and ran the numbers through a spreadsheet. Most of them are in there 50's and when they ran the numbers most of them would have lost $250,000 or more by going to NWA. At the time Northwest was in financial trouble and had a history of hiring briefly and then furloughing. Then they took a look at QOL. Commuting to DTW, to 11 days off, losing vacation, and being an FO. Even if 9E folds in 2 years most of them will still come out ahead by staying here.

So I guess if sitting down, gathering all the information, processing it, and coming up with a plan makes you an idiot, I am one too. I guess they didn't have that magic crystal ball that you use to make decisions.

So General why don't you do me a favor and figure why Delta changed there mind and are going to only fly 82 CRJ-200's instead of the 125 in your ta.

Are they going to stop flying to every town that has less than 100,000 people, or do they think people are going to wait for the 1 717 flight a day?

 

[General Lee]

I'm not cranky, I was laughing the whole time I wrote that. It is fun busting on a guy that time and time again is such an arrogant prick.

Hey general, the Mesaba guys you claim were such idiots for turning down the flow, let me explain why it was quite the opposite. (Since you bring it up time and time again)

They sat down with XJ's and NWA contract and ran the numbers through a spreadsheet. Most of them are in there 50's and when they ran the numbers most of them would have lost $250,000 or more by going to NWA. At the time Northwest was in financial trouble and had a history of hiring briefly and then furloughing. Then they took a look at QOL. Commuting to DTW, to 11 days off, losing vacation, and being an FO. Even if 9E folds in 2 years most of them will still come out ahead by staying here.

So I guess if sitting down, gathering all the information, processing it, and coming up with a plan makes you an idiot, I am one too. I guess they didn't have that magic crystal ball that you use to make decisions.

So General why don't you do me a favor and figure why Delta changed there mind and are going to only fly 82 CRJ-200's instead of the 125 in your ta.

Are they going to stop flying to every town that has less than 100,000 people, or do they think people are going to wait for the 1 717 flight a day?

Hi, maybe I know a couple of the guys who turned it down personally, and have let them know it was a bad decision more than once. (one in his early 40s, one mid 40s) I couldn't believe it. Sure, I can understand reasons that do with the "now", like he likes his seniority NOW, and is senior NOW. But, as you can see, that can all change. It is about what you can provide for your family now and in the future. We all knew this RJ bubble was going to burst.


Commuting is a problem, you say? Not on DL. You can get a jumpseat 6 days out going to work, 5 coming home. If you live out in the boondocks, then maybe it would be tougher. Also, one of the easiest bases to hold is the most junior at DL, and that happens to be DTW. MSP is a bit more senior, but not close to ATL or the West Coast bases.

And, I don't know what the final numbers will be for the 50 seaters, but DL has the right to fly 125. If they choose to fly fewer, that is a corporate decision, just like parking the Saabs. That was their choice too. You know that.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

This sounds too much like Comair. Comair went from 100+ airplanes to 88 airplanes, to 44 planes, then 0. Right now, Pinnacle sounds like they are at the 81 airplane stage. In 2014, what's to stop them from announing losing the 40 CRJ-900s to [insert another DCI regional carrier], leaving just 41 CRJ-900s. Then some time after, pull a Comair.

Indeed, what IS to stop the same people from pulling the same trick?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hi, maybe I know a couple of the guys who turned it down personally, and have let them know it was a bad decision more than once. (one in his early 40s, one mid 40s) I couldn't believe it.
Bye Bye---General Lee

Do you wonder why they don't want to talk to you anymore? Maybe the thought of spending the next couple of decades sitting next to someone like you made them think that rolling the dice on unemployment was a better choice.
Assuming you are really even a pilot....

 

[FOrever85]

Hi, maybe I know a couple of the guys who turned it down personally, and have let them know it was a bad decision more than once. (one in his early 40s, one mid 40s) I couldn't believe it. Sure, I can understand reasons that do with the "now", like he likes his seniority NOW, and is senior NOW. But, as you can see, that can all change. It is about what you can provide for your family now and in the future. We all knew this RJ bubble was going to burst.


Commuting is a problem, you say? Not on DL. You can get a jumpseat 6 days out going to work, 5 coming home. If you live out in the boondocks, then maybe it would be tougher. Also, one of the easiest bases to hold is the most junior at DL, and that happens to be DTW. MSP is a bit more senior, but not close to ATL or the West Coast bases.

And, I don't know what the final numbers will be for the 50 seaters, but DL has the right to fly 125. If they choose to fly fewer, that is a corporate decision, just like parking the Saabs. That was their choice too. You know that.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I call bull*&it

First of all, I doubt you know any of them, and doubt even more so you actually said any of this to their face. But go ahead and pm their names to me and I will see if any of this is true. It should be pretty easy since there are only 4 of them and I know 2 of them pretty well.

Second, I guess your crystal ball just works so much better than theirs. Fine I will take your "look into the future example".

The future (when they had to make up their mind) was and still is big RJ's. We were getting 36 of them and Northwest was still parking DC-9s. Most of the guys had kids in school or going to college. So there choice was make $104,000 bucks have 16 days off, live in base, (Not to mention 30 of them are instructors making more than that) have 4 weeks of vacation time/ huge bank of sick time.


or


They could have made $30,000, at the bottom of an airline that resembled TWA in the 90's, not sent their kid to school, or even see them graduate, .......

Why am I even bothering.

Even if they used your magic crystal ball that says they would merge with Delta, I don't remember you predicting 9e and XJ would merge, lose their large rj's, or really anything that was happened so far.

And by the way, they are still making more here than at Delta anyway.

 

[mesaba13]

A lot more than 2 turned down the flow. I have always said I would have taken the risk when the flow started. Whenever anyone said it was dangerous because you could get furloughed, I responded that I would accept a furlough tomorrow as long as I had the seniority number at Delta(NWA). I would have done something else for a few years and then returned to aviation eventually. I know people that are early 40's now that declined and I thought they were nuts but was glad because it put me one number closer to going. I missed the flow by a little and was very disappointed because NWA (and now DELTA) was a huge part of my family for my whole life and that was why I stayed at Mesaba. I don't blame anyone else for my situation but I am highly offended when someone like me with a spotless file and over 10 years is labeled a lifer or "turd that floats to the top". All because I waited my turn for a promised agreement that didn't pan out.

 

[FOrever85]

I know a lot more turned it down. It is in reference to the top 100 guys that turned down the NWA flow that were in their 40's. I wasn't going to correct his incorrect math, but it was about 120 that turned it down.

And I am with you on the rest of your sentiment.

 

[SplitBar]

I heard a rumor that the TA is going to allow those who turned down the flow to have another stab at it. Not sure how many of those 120 who said no would change their mind now. I'm sure quite a few. Would be an interesting development. Good luck XJers!!

 

[CoATP]

Giving those that turned down flow another chance will postpone or eliminate the chance of those further down the list. Almost every FO will be gone. Many CA's will be gone. With greater than 50% of the list voting to eliminate their jobs and to be paid less while waiting kind of implies a sweetner somewhere. If not flow in a reasonable time frame than what? Where is the Pony in this pile?