SWAPA TA Failure and downgrades

[Sandhawk]

His background is probably not some management toe jam sucking robot with a cookie cutter life who has followed the program every second of his life. He has probably made a decision or two without being told what to do or programmed to do it.

Question: How did an academy grad such as yourself end up flying Herks? Let me guess your a special forces Herk pilot? Special like the Olympics.

Did you know 80% of SWA pilots are military? If you answered yes, you'd be wrong. Your 100% civilian! So take your military background and stick it where the sun doesn't shine or keep the lid on your closet don't ask don't tell shower with the guys weekend warrior games because in your corn dog suit your just another civilian with bad breath.

I'd hate to see you buying a new car? I know you pay sticker!

Dang, Lucky - Tell us how you really feel !!!

:laugh:

 

[GuppyWN]

well, real quick, show me the part in the contract that says they get to "stay" lances.

I'll be waiting.

P.S. I'll save you time, in the past they have allowed it, but it's not contractual. Since they're so enamored with the program, I'm sure they'll just let us double the lance size. Yep.

I haven't read the entire thread yet but let me point a couple things out.

We have been overmanned on the captain side for quite a while. When you're VJA'ing FO's and letting captains sit reserve for days on end without flying - that's lopsided.

Secondly, If the company has "allowed it in the past," that's a little thing called PRECEDENCE my friend.

gup

 

[GuppyWN]

There are exactly zero scope restrictions in the current contract, so your question is hard to answer.

Except the whole "the company must grow the fleet by 5% annually if any codeshare is on property" thingy?

Gup

 

[Herkdrv]

His background is probably not some management toe jam sucking robot with a cookie cutter life who has followed the program every second of his life. He has probably made a decision or two without being told what to do or programmed to do it.

Question: How did an academy grad such as yourself end up flying Herks? Let me guess your a special forces Herk pilot? Special like the Olympics.

Did you know 80% of SWA pilots are military? If you answered yes, you'd be wrong. Your 100% civilian! So take your military background and stick it where the sun doesn't shine or keep the lid on your closet don't ask don't tell shower with the guys weekend warrior games because in your corn dog suit your just another civilian with bad breath.

I'd hate to see you buying a new car? I know you pay sticker!

Holy cow Lucky take a step back for a second! I was not asking for his background because I'm interested in a civilian vs military pissing contest. I was asking what his background was because I was interested to see if this was his first airline experience. In fact if I was a betting man, I would have bet retired military who is going through his first contract negotiation. Decaf my friend does wonders!

 

[pilotyip]

Could it be SWA is in trouble? Right around TA rejection time SWA raised their advance tickets prices to nearly the highest in the industry, two weeks later they dropped them and then again last week they dropped them again. Probably finding higher price reduced yields. Could it be they are trying to raise additional money to give everyone what they want, but a finding resistance from the consuming public? I see they are now charging for baggage and changing flights as a source of additional revenue.

 

[shearedshaft]

Except the whole "the company must grow the fleet by 5% annually if any codeshare is on property" thingy?

Gup

...and if they don't they have to meet with the union and explain why.

Have you read SL32? There is no remedy for failure to grow, plus there's an additional out if they are in debilitating circumstances.\

Have you thought this all the way through? We grieve it, the company refuses to meet with the union to explain why they're not growing and the arbitrator says that we're not in debilitating circumstances.

So the arbitrator forces Gary Kelly to grow? How does he do that?

But it's a moot point, there isn't anything to grieve, all they have to do it meet and explain.

I voted no all over that thang, but it still passed.

 

[shearedshaft]

Holy cow Lucky take a step back for a second! I was not asking for his background because I'm interested in a civilian vs military pissing contest. I was asking what his background was because I was interested to see if this was his first airline experience. In fact if I was a betting man, I would have bet retired military who is going through his first contract negotiation. Decaf my friend does wonders!

This is interesting. I've written perhaps 1,000 words, explaining quite clearly why I think the no vote left me, and the pilot group, significantly worse off.

To counter this, I've been called names, asked what my background is (in an oddly aggressive fashion by Mr. Air Force Guy, have we flown together? Never mind, it was probably one of your 40 clones who ask, "So, what's your background?")

But not one of you has offered a single reason as to why we are suddenly better off, other than to close your eyes real hard and wish, wish, wish.

Here are some points:

1. Restricting ELITT weekends helps the senior guys who fly during the week make use of ELITT.
2. Restricting number of lance duty periods to nine helps FOs use ELITT, net zero will go positive for once
3. Restricting first year guys to only getting second-year pay above their line total helps FOs who use ELITT, because they won't dump trips
4. Reducing the lance captain program by half won't change lance giveaways, because there aren't even enough turn lines to fill up 3.2%
5. Grandfathering lances is moot, downgrades are taking care of that
6. The payraises were fine, ranging from 6% to 10% in the worst recession in 50 years.
7. The TA offered restrictions on domestic codeshare and RJs which don't exist in our contract and are welcome.
8. The TA restricts far-international codeshare completely, like domestic.
9. The TA changes JA pay to double time
10. The TA changed overfly pay to only five minutes.

So again, where is all of the heartache coming from? Is it from the weekend guys who feel entitled to use ELITT to screw the weekday fliers? Is it from guys who want 15% raises instead of 10%?

 

[firstthird]

shearedshaft,
if you are a SWA pilot, then get on the pprune or swapa to discuss the particulars. I'm done explaining the obvious to you. I'll do it on a more union specific website. I'm not sure why you are on here getting into pretty in depth particulars that have no real relevance outside of internal SWA pilot negotations but I'm done playing your game and I hope the rest of the SWA pilots will agree. I'm on the pprune as firstthird. I know, original. and I'm on the swapa forum too. maybe you're on there, there seem to be plenty of fear seller there too.
FI is a great place for some stuff but you are beyond that line.
firstthird

 

[shearedshaft]

I'm up to 1,100 words on this subject, on the fourth page of this thread and not one single cogent response from a no voter.

Face it, you were the dog chasing the garbage truck, you finally bit onto the rear bumper and have zero idea what to do next. The SWAPA forum is oddly silent (I don't PPrune) and here, all you guys can do is to call names.

Turning down codeshare restrictions and large raises in this economy is going to be looked on by history as the personification of hubris.

 

[firstthird]

the swapa forum is not silent. I've slapped every yes voter on there upside the head at least once. okay, maybe not slapped, but frankly the only yes voters still posting on there are a lot like you, difficult to reason with since they mainly repeat company talking points.

and like I said, you want to come post this stuff on a swa pilot only forum, I'll gladly answer you. in fact I probably have already if you are who I suspect you are. there is one fairly vocal yes voter still selling his fear over on swapa, is that you shearedshaft? not getting the response you want on swapa so you're trolling flightinfo? and that isn't name calling, just asking a question. I don't think I've called you a name yet, althogh I keep having do backspace a bunch.