SWAPA TA Failure and downgrades

[whymeworry?]

Get over it (and get over yourself). The vote is in, done. The train has left the station, ship has sailed. You lost the vote. THAT, my friend, is the democratic process. Like it or not. Now stop scaring yourself and start trying to effectuate change. You guys will get whatever you fight for... but ya' gotta' fight. Nobody's going to give it to you.

SW pilots were living in a bubble since their post 9/11 fuel hedges helped their company massively expand. But all good things come to an end at some point. Now it's time to roll up your sleeves and get to work. Show what kind of unionists you are. Like I said, nobody's gonna' give it to you. Ya' gotta' man up. Mgmt expects that.

SW is still a very well-run airline and fuel-hedging aside there is no reason why mgmt should be able to farm out your work. SCOPE... THAT is what the no votes were about.

 

[Mach92]

Get over it (and get over yourself). The vote is in, done. The train has left the station, ship has sailed. You lost the vote. THAT, my friend, is the democratic process. Like it or not. Now stop scaring yourself and start trying to effectuate change. You guys will get whatever you fight for... but ya' gotta' fight. Nobody's going to give it to you.

SW pilots were living in a bubble since their post 9/11 fuel hedges helped their company massively expand. But all good things come to an end at some point. Now it's time to roll up your sleeves and get to work. Show what kind of unionists you are. Like I said, nobody's gonna' give it to you. Ya' gotta' man up. Mgmt expects that.

SW is still a very well-run airline and fuel-hedging aside there is no reason why mgmt should be able to farm out your work. SCOPE... THAT is what the no votes were about.

Well said! Our group (NetJets) woke up in 2004/2005 and finally had said enough! You will only get what you fight for. Stop thinking the TA vote was bad, it's just a new beginning guys. Get a new NC and kick some arse!

 

[Herkdrv]

Sheared I just want to ask you one question. If and that is a big IF, we have any furloughs will you pick up open time?

 

[firstthird]

well, it is all about him. I have a guess.

 

[GuppyWN]

Sure he will but he'll tell you that he is not picking up - he always flies 130tfp so flying 130tfp with brothers on the street is not picking up "extra."

If and when this ever happens 89 is fine. It should sting a little as a reminder that our brothers and sisters are making 0 tfp.

Gup

 

[GuppyWN]

double post

 

[GuppyWN]

triple post

 

[firstthird]

Last I looked I still got paid on the 20th, life is still a lot better than at ASA.

no doubt. I don't see anyone on this thread arguing that we have it bad. Many of us are saying that the TA was lacking and we'd like to see some stuff get fixed prior to making it our CBA. Sheared disagrees. his right.

if your only criteria for a good contract is that you get paid on the 5th and 20th, well, you have very low standards and would probably be happy at most any airline, since most are meeting their payrolls. even the ones in and out of bankruptcy. some have gone under for good and that sucks. but to say that the TA was good because you got paid on the 20th is a non sequitur.

 

[shearedshaft]

Sheared I just want to ask you one question. If and that is a big IF, we have any furloughs will you pick up open time?

I would no more pick up extra trips with someone on furlough than I would cross a picket line. Would never happen. You guys are devolving into insults again, which makes for a boring conversation.

And you're also missing the point about the money. It's not the absolute amount of the money I am discussing, it is the tradeoff. I contend that you have some heartburn over some stuff. I have heartburn as well.

But when offered the trade of $1,400 per month, or the heartburn, I make a rational decision, I'll take the $1,400 per month. Just like when I buy a car, I decide the trade off between the amount the car costs me and the amount I want the car.

I claim you folks are living in an odd fantasy world, where you get to keep all the money, get to keep all the retro, and get to keep all the good stuff that you tournament-play in the contrat. Cake, meet eat it too.

If gaming the ELITT system is seriously worth about $1,400/month to you, why wouldn't you just take the $1,400, give up on the gaming and live a simpler life? I doubt it is worth that much, unless you're a lance.

Here's an interesting question: if the company came to you and asked you to take a lower than contract guarantee to keep guys on the property, and assuming you would vote yes on that question, would you have been better off with a 10% raise (or 6%) and the cut in line totals, or no raise?

Well, you chose no raise. I claim you wouldn't be better off.

 

[scoreboardII]

I make a rational decision, I'll take the $1,400 per month. .

My paycheck grossed almost exactly $1,000 less than it would have if the T.A. had ratified.

So which is it, $1,000 or $1,400? Your accounting principles are confusing to us lowly no votes.

I claim you wouldn't be better off

Fortunately the majority thinks otherwise, welcome to democracy.

 

[shearedshaft]

So which is it, $1,000 or $1,400? Your accounting principles are confusing to us lowly no votes.

Fortunately the majority thinks otherwise, welcome to democracy.

If you fly 120/month, it's $1,400. If you fly 100 per month, it's $1,000.

You "lowly no votes" are already down $1,000. In one month. Ouch.


Hey, let's do some more math. The average SWA pilot flies over 100 trips per month and there are 6,000 pilots. Figure each captain gave up a $10/trip raise, each senior FO gave up $11/trip and each junior FO gave up about $6/trip.

We just put a little under $6 million back in SWA's checking account this month, right from ours with the no vote.

Next month, we'll have donated $12 million. At that rate, I am certain SWA management is falling all over themselves to fix the little things and get that contract out for ratification.

Think this through; by turning down the TA, the whole pilot group gives up a collective amount of $6 million per month.

That is gonna show 'em. You have leverage now, baby.

 

[GuppyWN]

No retro No contract.

It's already been agreed to once. Now way it's coming off the table. You can thank me after my NO vote gets you a bigger raise.

Gup

 

[shearedshaft]

Don't you see that the company is dancing around waving streamers in the air and spontaneously breaking into folk dances because we turned this down and saved them $6,000,000 per month in pilot wages?

Why would they care if you kept voting it down? It's good for them, the money that would have gone into your pocket stays in theirs.

 

[humveedriver]

Best of luck guys. We have our penny pinchers too at AT, who brief their fellow pilot on how much the failed TA cost them per pay period and to date. If it was only about money, SWA and AT's ta's would have passed. The latest antic by our management has done alot for our unity. I think you guys probably have a ways to go, and will need some bombs dropped on your heads like we did. It sucks for everyone who is watching to see the most labor friendly airline to ever exist (and one of the best fortune 500 companies period) to go down the path they are on. I hope I am wrong and your new NC squeaks out a victory, but I think the airline landscape is too different now for these managers to back down.

 

[GuppyWN]

It sucks for everyone who is watching to see the most labor friendly airline to ever exist (and one of the best fortune 500 companies period) to go down the path they are on.

The only path we are on right now is the path to renegotiation. There is no animosity that I am aware of, we just didn't sign off on the first go.

Gup