SWAPA TA Failure and downgrades

[PCL_128]

You make very good points, except for one important one: You propose self-help is a realistic outcome that might happen after a vote is lost with less than a one percent failing margin?

I believe the margin would be a lot higher if taken today. Now that the pilots have seen that a lot of other pilots voted no, I think a lot of guys that were on the fence and ended up voting yes would probably vote no if given the chance to do it over again. Pilot psychology is a weird thing, and it takes a lot of union work to start to figure it out.

How many flights do you think we're really giving up to Canada? To Mexico? Would I vote to go on strike over it? Nope.

It amazes me that you've learned nothing from the past 20+ years of scope losses. Your attitude is exactly why more than half of UAL and DAL flying is done by other than DAL and UAL pilots.

Since you have such a fundamental lack of understanding, I'm left to ask the same thing as the other posters here: what is your background in aviation? Did you come from a unionized part 121 carrier? Did you only fly non-union non-sked maybe?

 

[shearedshaft]

I believe the margin would be a lot higher if taken today. Now that the pilots have seen that a lot of other pilots voted no, I think a lot of guys that were on the fence and ended up voting yes would probably vote no if given the chance to do it over again. Pilot psychology is a weird thing, and it takes a lot of union work to start to figure it out.



It amazes me that you've learned nothing from the past 20+ years of scope losses. Your attitude is exactly why more than half of UAL and DAL flying is done by other than DAL and UAL pilots.

Since you have such a fundamental lack of understanding, I'm left to ask the same thing as the other posters here: what is your background in aviation? Did you come from a unionized part 121 carrier? Did you only fly non-union non-sked maybe?

Nope, ALPA for years. They did a great job on scope. The APA over at American did too.

Like I said, our current contract has zero scope protection. Our negotiated one had pretty good scope and codeshare protection, except for limiting the already signed contracts (remember, our current contract had no restrictions, they went and signed on the dotted line, nothing we could do about it) to 6% of our overall seat miles.

Not a worthwhile restriction, since the whole Canada/Mexico/Island market is less than 6% of our capacity regardless.

So I'll answer the question a different way: Would I vote to go on strike over an agreement that completely limited domestic, completely eliminated far-international and limited near-international to only 6%? No I wouldn't.

Outsourcing sucks. So let's limit it. Status quo is zero limit, the TA had significant limits. So you choose status quo? "Yeah Bob, I'll take zero restrictions for $1,000 per month!"

And I think you're wrong. If the contract was presented again, in its current form, I think it would pass handily. The no voters are the dog that caught the station wagon. Now they have it, what next? Well, no raises and a new, untrained NC to start.

But maybe SWA will fall over in trembling fear and we'll cancel our codeshare agreements with Westjet and Volaris because the pilots voted no by 100 votes.

Or maybe the opposite will happen, they'll take the fact the pilots turned down a chance to restrict codeshare, and we'll see RJs in Houston. They've changed their minds five or six times in the last year, why not one more?

If you honestly think "growth" for SWA is near-international, you've never seen the population maps airlines use for route planning.

And by the way, you talk about "more than half" of flying for UAL and DAL being done by non-mainline pilots. Right, that's my point. RJs fill the ramps like maggots. Our TA would have cut that off at the knees, no RJs at all. That's a good thing.

Right now? Any amount of RJs at any time.

 

[PCL_128]

He's all yours, fellas. I'm done with him. He's obviously hopeless and clueless. I'm sorry you've got to deal with him.

 

[Herkdrv]

What trick have I fallen for? SWA is very happy that they don't have to pay out retro and higher wages for the pilots right now. Is that a management trick?

I read the Dallas news when Gary Kelly was reported saying that regarding the pilot contract, we're in new economic times. You seriously think I'm wrong about our new NC (may they show up soon) won't hear the same thing the CEO is in the newspaper saying about his own negotiating plans? Christ, he said it out loud, I have a fair idea that their position is the following:

1. Be really nice to the pilots
2. Drag their feet
3. Say, "These are tough economic times" over and over
4. Finally agree to something at least a year from now, if not two years.

Maybe I'm wrong, but who give a whip if I am or not? I'm just making a prediction that you guys cost me a bagload of money.

So far, I haven't heard a single person argue differently, so I'm all ears.

Why would the company give us bigger raises and retro right now, given the choice not to? I could see them honoring a prior commitment (hey, Gary Kelly said that too), but I can see them attempting to not make a new commitment.

What does that equal? A long time to a new contract. Will we get retro and as big raises? Will we get bigger ones? Will he want concessions to keep from furloughing? I dunno. Do you?

So once again what is your background?

 

[njcapt]

I think it's Tom Dean.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

I think it's Tom Dean.

or maybe huffman???

 

[luckytohaveajob]

So once again what is your background?

His background is probably not some management toe jam sucking robot with a cookie cutter life who has followed the program every second of his life. He has probably made a decision or two without being told what to do or programmed to do it.

Question: How did an academy grad such as yourself end up flying Herks? Let me guess your a special forces Herk pilot? Special like the Olympics.

Did you know 80% of SWA pilots are military? If you answered yes, you'd be wrong. Your 100% civilian! So take your military background and stick it where the sun doesn't shine or keep the lid on your closet don't ask don't tell shower with the guys weekend warrior games because in your corn dog suit your just another civilian with bad breath.

I'd hate to see you buying a new car? I know you pay sticker!

 

[Daddy]

Shearedshaft,
If you have been here long enough to get weekends off and STILL haven't figured out how to ELITT your way to get premium time flying even now, then there is nothing I can do to explain it to you. If you thought you would be ELITTing during the week after those measures, you are just not being realistic. It just aint that hard to do, man. You sound pretty gullible, dude...you must have some of that "artificial" seniority in LAS to where you never had to crack the system to make it work for you. That's too bad...for you and us.

 

[murano]

He's all yours, fellas. I'm done with him. He's obviously hopeless and clueless. I'm sorry you've got to deal with him.

We've got thousands of them here. Slowly but surely we'll get to all of them. At least 50.84% is now educated.

 

[Skybus]

How to become a "Real" Airline

Is there any reason why as SWA Pilots we need to air this dirty laundry on this public forum? Do you have such a need for the entire avaition community to hear you. Need you show the entire world how brilliant your thoughts are? NOT!

Like the TA or not, take it home. Give it a rest.

BUS