SWAPA might like SWA proposal

[madjack]

Mr Kelly did not make an offer, he attempted to aid negotiations by making a SLI proposal...now it is up to the pilots to do their job and make a deal...the entire airline industry achieves seniority by the date of hire, no other metric...there is NO WAY that you can argue that it is FAIR to let pilots from the LESSER COMPANY (the one that was bought, the one that paid less, the one that was much less attractive to work for) hold CP seats ahead of FOs from the stronger, purchasing company who have been at the PURCHASING company longer...that would be a grotesque industry precedent.

 

[Kharma Police]

Mr Kelly did not make an offer, he attempted to aid negotiations by making a SLI proposal...now it is up to the pilots to do their job and make a deal...the entire airline industry achieves seniority by the date of hire, no other metric...there is NO WAY that you can argue that it is FAIR to let pilots from the LESSER COMPANY (the one that was bought, the one that paid less, the one that was much less attractive to work for) hold CP seats ahead of FOs from the stronger, purchasing company who have been at the PURCHASING company longer...that would be a grotesque industry precedent.

You must have gained quite a bit of business negotiating experience in the Navy with the strict DoD profit margins and Unionized Sailors. The SERE School Executive MBA Program in Brunswick probably taught you your negotiating theories?

 

[madjack]

Kharma,

I think I a got at least as much management experience in the navy as you did flying cessnas. Right now you and I are two pilots, with two dates of hire, working for what is about to be, fortunately for you, the same STRONG company.

Kharma said: The SERE School Executive MBA Program in Brunswick probably taught you your negotiating theories?

When I was getting water boarded at SERE school, raises and benefits never came up...

 

[Kharma Police]

Kharma,

I think I a got at least as much management experience in the navy as you did flying cessnas. Right now you and I are two pilots, with two dates of hire, working for what is about to be, fortunately for you, the same STRONG company.

Kharma said: The SERE School Executive MBA Program in Brunswick probably taught you your negotiating theories?

When I was getting water boarded at SERE school, raises and benefits never came up...

Good, then you will have no problem allowing the process to work itself out as negotiated by both parties.

 

[madjack]

KP said: Good, then you will have no problem allowing the process to work itself out as negotiated by both parties.

No more problem than you do...

 

[Kharma Police]

KP said: Good, then you will have no problem allowing the process to work itself out as negotiated by both parties.

No more problem than you do...

I have no issues as we have consistently played by the rules. I guarantee SWAPA would do the same if given an unacceptable first offer.

 

[GuppyWN]

I took a paycut and went to the end of the line when I went to WN. Seems to me that anything better than that is a bonus.

Gup

 

[zippy32]

I think you are failing to understand the basic point here. I don't think anyone really wants the nuclear option. I think I can speak for the vast majority of the group when I say we hope this works for the long term benefit of all and we can move on together as a srong united group.
The point is that given the choice of a bad SLI or continuing to go it alone we would prefer to continue to go on our way on our own. The problem really is that almost anything your side seems to be to consider "acceptable" will damage the career earnings of almost every SWAPA pilot while greatly increasing the career earnings of almost every AAI pilot.

Very good post Ghetto. Let's get this done.

 

[ASADFW7]

From what I have read no SWA postings have leaked information in the deal. The SWA guys are negotiating in good faith, I wonder where the AAI guys are getting their information? Are the AAI leaks to inflame membership when the basic value of many people's livelihoods are on the table. Like it or not, this is serious business going on in Dallas. Swapa is working on a deal, AAI ??? Maybe not so much. The AAI leak does not give the context of the whole package, and that is unfair for everyone not to have the whole context. Like it or not SWA guys are not happy about this, or the leaks. They are also not happy a few AAI pilots are undercutting the process. The average SWA pilot has no cards to undermine the process, it is interesting that pcl is the good will killing machine between our two groups. An alpa rep who is unprofessional and irresponsible with the memberships interest. If in the end there is harm to the AAI pilot group from leaks, pin in on your leadership and individuals who didn't know how to act around big business. Sorry folks these are billion dollar deals, and child games are behind us. Like it or not the deal presented will take a lot of adjustment for both sides.

 

[Just thinking]

Whose H34?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I took a paycut and went to the end of the line when I went to WN. Seems to me that anything better than that is a bonus.

Gup

Doesn't everyone take a pay cut and go to the back of the line when they CHOOSE to make a career move.

 

[PapaWoody]

Doesn't everyone take a pay cut and go to the back of the line when they CHOOSE to make a career move.

No offense here, and I'm not gonna chime in on the whole "staple" issue (at least right now), but you're saying this as if the majority of your list (especially the FO's) wouldn't have CHOSEN to become SWA pilots if given the option pre Sept 27th. As if being bought was this horrible thing that happened to you and you are just trying to cope with it. Disingenuous to say the least. Sheesh!

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

PS I think this is, in essence, the crux of the issue. SWA guys changed their lives to get this job, whereas AAI guys are getting it without the effort that we had to put into it, but yet we're the a-holes for expecting you guys to be a little realistic about the value of your career at AAI and the major increase in that value just by becoming part of our family. At better seniority than all of us started when we became part of SWA, I might add.

 

[GuppyWN]

That's more eloquent than my response!

Gup

 

[jetpilot4u]

From reading all these posts... my conclusion is.....

AirTran pilots = A bunch of ungrateful b@stards!

No eloquence here!

 

[GuppyWN]

From reading all these posts... my conclusion is.....

AirTran pilots = A bunch of ungrateful b@stards!

No eloquence here!

They aren't all like the handful here!

That's a great avatar pic. If I did AM's I'd be lucky to see something so beautiful.

Gup

 

[DougCorp-9]

NO DEAL HAS BEEN MADE YET!!! Proposals are proposals which mean they can be adjusted. Would ALL you guys on both sides quit acting like three year olds. We are going to be working together in the near future an this bickering has zero value.

 

[Kharma Police]

From reading all these posts... my conclusion is.....

AirTran pilots = A bunch of ungrateful b@stards!

No eloquence here!

Ahhhhh......you must be one of the Check FO Kernals that my SW buddies bitch about.

5 posts?, you're a little late in the game for this Kernal. You must of been on AD learning to fly one of those awesome drones. Do you guys still were your G-suits while sitting in the trailer?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I think the generalizations are disingenuous. I don't know that the majority of our pilot group would have taken a new hire job at WN if given the opportunity prior to 9/27 as some insinuate, it's pure speculation. Were there 850 of our pilots that had aps in with WN?

No one questions that one can make more money at WN, we are in the process of determining what that additional money is worth in terms of seniority. To some of us it's not worth as much as you think it is. We are entitled to our opinions just as you are. Sorry the majority of us don't see it your way, that's why we are negotiating.

 

[jetpilot4u]

KP, You must be a JOY to fly with! Cutting down military guys like that! Keep your comments about those who defend your freedom to yourself. I consider people like you to be wannabes... oh boo whoo!

 

[Kharma Police]

KP, You must be a JOY to fly with! Cutting down military guys like that! Keep your comments about those who defend your freedom to yourself. I consider people like you to be wannabes... oh boo whoo!

So, you didn't answer the question. Do you were your G-suit in the trailer while piloting your drone?