SWAPA might like SWA proposal

[waveflyer]

I hope you are right but what I am hearing the actual base will be smaller than it is today. Down to around 850 pilots. There may be more flights per day but domicile size will be smaller. I am just line swine so I hope I am wrong.

Where are you hearing this from?

I got a few trannie friends that say a vote no campaign is already in the works headlined by none other than Fredo/PCL and disgruntled friends. In it is a lot of misinformation designed to highlight integration as a bad thing. (AlPA would never...)
Maybe this is coming from that?

PCL, what say you? You working the internal politics before the official details have even been released? It's your own AT line guys calling you out.

What's up brotha???

What's going to happen to ATL domicile is relevant and a fair question- I'll try to get a good answer. My feeling though is no way it gets smaller. It'll be a dynamic place as it transitions to swa, but no smaller.

 

[Beech Balls]

just relax AT guys....things at SWA are really nice....gone are your days of worrying about pay, days off, schedule flexibility, retirement, whether you'd have to take part in a picket line, whatever.
Just chill out and come over with a smile and enjoy the stability and beer we'll all be buying you!

 

[DougCorp-9]

Reserve is IMHO one of the weakest parts of our contract but still darn good. Highlights:

1. Reserve lights pay 85/87/89 trips based on <30/30/31 day months.
2. Each day of reserve counts as 6 trips or the greater of what was flown and you can go over the guarantee.
3. You can pick up extra flying over guarantee on a day off, any day off flying does NOT go towards the guarantee so it is money in your pocket.
4. No more than 16 reserve working days in a 31 day month, 15 in a 30 or 29 month, 14 in a 28 month. (And a big pat on the back for our line holding guarentees, never more than 15 days scheduled in a month but MUST meet the overall average of no more than 13.45 in a 31 month, 13 in a 30, 12.55 in a 29, or 12.10 in a 28 day month, so you can see the average line is WAY under what you do at Airtran all with much more pay.)

Thanks! I Suppose I could live with that. )))))))

 

[jonjuan]

just relax AT guys....things at SWA are really nice....gone are your days of worrying about pay, days off, schedule flexibility, retirement, whether you'd have to take part in a picket line, whatever.
Just chill out and come over with a smile and enjoy the stability and beer we'll all be buying you!

SO, just take a staple because everything is great. Even in this global downturn, things will continue to get better and will always be stable!

 

[roughneck]

SO, just take a staple because everything is great. Even in this global downturn, things will continue to get better and will always be stable!

Or you can roll the dice and see how the wholly owned 717 ops work out in this global downturn,

 

[waveflyer]

SO, just take a staple because everything is great. Even in this global downturn, things will continue to get better and will always be stable!

You part of that pre-ejaculate no campaign too, bra?

this industry has been predicting the downfall of SWA for long before I was in the airlines. you can join them if you like. but if SWA furloughs you- you'd have got furloughed at the former Air Tran too, and we'll all have bigger problems than our job.

 

[jonjuan]

You part of that pre-ejaculate no campaign too, bra?

this industry has been predicting the downfall of SWA for long before I was in the airlines. you can join them if you like. but if SWA furloughs you- you'd have got furloughed at the former Air Tran too, and we'll all have bigger problems than our job.

Reading comprehension certainly isn't your strong suite. Never predicted the downfall of anyone, however, assuming what has transpired in the past applies to the future is irrational thinking. I'm certain you once believed the "this is the last job you'll ever have" BS from the many alpa carriers you provided services to.

 

[Flycatcher99]

ATL will shrink in size. Apparently SWA bases size if domicile on amount of RON aircraft. It has to do with revenue on the early outbound aircraft.

This is completely contrary to what is being talked about over here. GK said that he thought ATL was a coup in the days and months following the announcement. This is from an interview with Gary shortly after the announced merger...

"I think the story here is about Atlanta. I think it is about us bringing more competition, bringing more low fares. We see a number of city (peer) opportunities to go in, lower fares, and stimulate traffic in classic Southwest fashion. I think Laura mentioned the (Campbell Hill) study that we reference in our press release where independently they have the same view. Actually their numbers were a lot more ambitious that ours. But we see very healthy passenger growth and with lower fares in and out of Atlanta.

So that’s the big opportunity here. I don't think there’s any secret about that. Now there will clearly be other opportunities for us to connect our networks together and grow traffic. So it is not just about Atlanta, but Atlanta’s where the big numbers are. [emphasis mine]

So the way to think about it - again there is very little overlap between Southwest and AirTran. Interestingly enough if you racked our - ranked our competitors, they’re the smallest. We actually have the smallest overlap with Atlanta which allows for taking their network, connecting it to our network. We’re four times, five times their size so there are a lot of places that we can add non-stop flights from the Southwest system into theirs."


Other quotes mentioned raising the number of cities served out of ATL from 70 to 100, as well as the extra business from adding SWA's cargo service, which AAI does not have. The word on the street was that there would be 300 flights/day there in the near future. I had heard comparisons to Denver, which is the fastest we have grown a city to date.

I don't know who is talking shrinking ATL, but I can't imagine it's a reputable rumor.

 

[waveflyer]

Reading comprehension certainly isn't your strong suite. Never predicted the downfall of anyone, however, assuming what has transpired in the past applies to the future is irrational thinking. I'm certain you once believed the "this is the last job you'll ever have" BS from the many alpa carriers you provided services to.

Actually no. I think furlough risk was on most of my class's brain. Bc one would usually experience a furlough at some point w/ a legacy and then you never know where life will take you. I always took those kind of lines w/ a grain of salt. I'll say I was naive in a lot of ways. Didn't consider swa bc of te contract at the time and bc I put international ops on a pedestal.

What I love about swa is that we don't believe it could never happen to us. I hate that entitled mentality. The "I've arrived" attitude, 'now it's time to coast'. That's one of our motivations every day and why we treat people so well every day. We're fighting for their business bc we want everyone to have a job.

 

[slaquer5]

Thanks! I Suppose I could live with that. )))))))

Brother PM when this all done and I will really tell you how to work the reserve. You will be racking in the cash and hardly flying.

 

[Beech Balls]

SO, just take a staple because everything is great. Even in this global downturn, things will continue to get better and will always be stable!

I agree that the global downturn is a scary thing....BUT, that negative attitude doesn't help you at SWA. The reason AirTran's been bought by SWA, and not the other way around is because of intelligent growth, fiscal responsibility, and the culture and attitude of it's employees.
Capts at SWA would take a serious pay-cut before anyone EVER went on furlough, so don't worry about that. That's how much of a stake everyone feels they have at that company.

I seriously doubt some of the old farts over at AT would do that for a lowly FO...
SWA's old farts most probably would because they realize the importance of keeping the culture, and the atmosphere alive and stable, as it helps EVERYONE benefit, including them.

You won't get stapled, at least not completely from what we all hear, and if you don't like the huge pile of money and benefits that are being handed to you, then feel free to let the guys behind you move up one.

 

[redflyer65]

I agree that there is no way that ATL will shrink. I think the opposite is true. There will be more gate efficencies with Southwest, and therefore more flights.

Every gate will most like have an originator on it every AM. I think it could be in the running for our largest crew base.

 

[slaquer5]

I agree that there is no way that ATL will shrink. I think the opposite is true. There will be more gate efficencies with Southwest, and therefore more flights.

Every gate will most like have an originator on it every AM. I think it could be in the running for our largest crew base.

It will be the largest crew base. Hence, they want a seasoned Chief Pilot to go there (TD). If anyone thinks ATL is going to shrink, put your money where you mouth is. I will call it ATL insurance as so its not a bet. ATL will have close to 300 flights a day.

 

[Kharma Police]

It will be the largest crew base. Hence, they want a seasoned Chief Pilot to go there (TD). If anyone thinks ATL is going to shrink, put your money where you mouth is. I will call it ATL insurance as so its not a bet. ATL will have close to 300 flights a day.

What we have been hearing is that the flying will increase, however, the crew base itself will shrink. Have the SW guys heard something different?

 

[flynvixen]

Hmm, i think SWA offered you all jobs and you turned them down right? Yeah, I'm sure everybody will feel really bad for you.

Spoken by a true man of vision..........if anyone can screw this deal up it is the job killing machine ALPA.

Staple staple

 

[Tripower455]

All I keep hearing is that ATL will grow, even after we fix the less efficient AT manning model.

I predict it's gonna be the new OAK for the junior guys.

 

[flynvixen]

Airtran= A bunch of ingrates. They will be the end of the SWA legacy. There are other airlines that would take a staple no questions asked. And at least 7000 people with apps on file that could fill their positions, and likely meet their qualifications. What say SWA? When does the hiring begin? Stop wasting time on these losers.

Well said, I hope they vote this deal down and are sent packing with their RJ's or can find peace working for Texas Sub Corp.

Staple staple

 

[Daddy]

I dont think anyone can intelligently speak to ATL's future for the short term without knowing what will happen in the SLI, but long term, that base will be a monster. It is a giant hole in the system now with little connection out west from airtran...it will be big....300 a day may be low for ATL.

 

[flynvixen]

That sucks, I was hoping to get some new blood in Atlanta, especially some former ASA buds. Instead ATL will be, "The Island of Misfit Toys".

And greedy Trannys

 

[Kharma Police]

And greedy Trannys

Greed is good, do you want to join my cartel in Atlanta?

 

[Flycatcher99]

Talk of ATL shrinking sounds very much like a whisper campaign against the AIP. That rumor has absolutely no base in reality, and in fact flies in the face of everything that has been said by GK, as well as in the face of perhaps the number one reason SWA bought AAI.

 

[Lear70]

I bet everyone will be happier in the end.

Lear, any thoughts on who leaked info to Holly H?

http://www.planebuzz.com/

I can't read what was said, she's already yanked it, but she says that it was from a "SWAPA union official". FWIW

Directly from the horse's mouth: ATL will grow in size insofar as the NUMBER OF DAILY DEPARTURES, however it will be a bit like Nashville. Lots of gates, not as many overnighters, mostly thru-flights (they said that we are 4 times the size of crew base in terms of RON's that we need currently). They *DO* plan on reducing the BASED PILOTS down to 850 total pilots, or 425 crews (mix of 717's and 737's - more 717's than 737's), a little less than 1/2 its current size of a crew base to accommodate 1st and last bank of flying (EMO's and CDO/Red-eyes, which will continue until further notice). This WILL result in displacements (although it will be a while before that starts to happen and isn't going to happen all in one big clump).

Because of the displacements and the way the ratio shook out, the vast majority of pilots who get displaced from ATL will be bottom of the totem pole in whatever SWA base they get displaced to. However, because it will take up to 3 years from now to complete training and integration, with SWA hiring more new-hires for growth starting 2nd Q next year, those displaced pilots may not be on reserve, depending where they get displaced to. Too many moving parts of that to figure out quite yet (and not all the language has been drafted of course).

The 1,000 shares (if any) aren't for AAI pilots.

From a secondary source (MEC member, not MC), the ratios change quite a bit for different segments of our list. Most seniority lost is 35% (senior Captains going from #1 to # 1,680+), least seniority lost is 22% - the 3 year F/O's stapled to the bottom. Total 650+ AAI F/O's stapled.

ALL SWA pilots gain relative seniority. No SWA pilot loses one iota of relative seniority OR has a slower upgrade as a result of the integration. Zero-growth numbers are projected 10-12 year (from now) upgrade for AAI senior F/O's (including me, 15-17 years total as an F/O, 8-10 years as a SWA CA), 12-15 more years to upgrade for our mid-level F/O's, 15-17+ for our junior 1/3. Some AAI F/O's may never upgrade. Anything above zero growth at SWA, upgrades happen faster.

No "guaranteed" aircraft growth (the 180 aircraft rumor is pure rumor and is NOT part of the deal nor was it mentioned by GK), but growth more than zero is projected to start once integration starts - fleshing out our Caribbean flying from many different SWA bases.

That's about all I have right now, the rest is speculation and rumor. We're all waiting for the full language to be drafted over the next week or so and see what the MEC does with it.

Still cautiously optimistic. :beer:

 

[Flycatcher99]

Where are you getting your ATL numbers?

 

[Lear70]

Where are you getting your ATL numbers?

MEC Status Reps who were briefed by the Merger Committee. Reading right off their update from the Merger Committe so, "straight from the horse's mouth".

 

[Flycatcher99]

MEC Status Reps who were briefed by the Merger Committee. Reading right off their update from the Merger Committe so, "straight from the horse's mouth".

So basically, your MEC is leaking information prematurely? And naturally they can be completely trusted?

Plus, I'm sure they've given the whole picture of integration completely within context. In other words, they've supplied you with every nuance of the integration, complete with gains for AAI pilots.

Boy, am I having ALPA flashbacks.

 

[redflyer65]

Interesting that most of what you wrote is very similiar if not exact to what was on Plane Business, except for the huge A/C order (which you mentioned as bogus anyway).

Every gate in ATL will be filled with an RON aircraft, that seems to be the one constant in our system. Wherever we go, every gate is pretty much full the next morning..even in the hubs/bases. I would say it points to complete gate utilization from the beginning of the day to the last arrival.

 

[RobZerbe]

I can't read what was said, she's already yanked it, but she says that it was from a "SWAPA union official". FWIW

It didn't come from us (actually it started right here on FI, apparently as a joke). It is false.

Please avoid speculation and wait for official communication from Company or your union officials.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Every gate in ATL will be filled with an RON aircraft, that seems to be the one constant in our system. Wherever we go, every gate is pretty much full the next morning..even in the hubs/bases. I would say it points to complete gate utilization from the beginning of the day to the last arrival.

I was thinking the same thing. With thirty two gates, and an airplane + at every gate, (remotes) I was personally guessing the base to be 1000 pilots or more. ATL will be instantly SWA's largest base. Likely for the rest of our careers.

Unfortunately, MKE will probably close. I can't make a guess on MCO. Can someone share the number of pilots currently based in MCO with the number of gates used? Thanks.

 

[Lear70]

So basically, your MEC is leaking information prematurely? And naturally they can be completely trusted?

When I've spoken to 1/3 of our MEC officials and they're all saying the same thing? Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable relying on it. Some are saying more than others, some are more positive, some are more negative, but the basic info is the same.

Additionally, a few things I posted above are being posted on our internal forum directly from the MC to counteract some bad info that's being passed around 3rd and 4th hand and getting people really riled up, so yeah, what you see above I think is pretty dang accurate.

Plus, I'm sure they've given the whole picture of integration completely within context. In other words, they've supplied you with every nuance of the integration, complete with gains for AAI pilots.

Boy, am I having ALPA flashbacks.

I think I already said that it was obviously not the entire picture, just a few snapshots. I'm not trying to aggravate anyone, just passing on some basic info. If no one wants it, I'll stop passing it on. Jeez, talk about shooting the messenger...

 

[Empennage]

I agree that there is no way that ATL will shrink. I think the opposite is true. There will be more gate efficencies with Southwest, and therefore more flights.

Every gate will most like have an originator on it every AM. I think it could be in the running for our largest crew base.

I'll add let's look at MDW as an example. I would assume ATL would eventually have more departures than MDW. Chicago currently has 1,061 pilots.