SWAPA might like SWA proposal

Bob_Sacamano

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No, I think Southwest should offer preferential interviews.

So far AAI is getting all the equity.


Do you feel like a staple of all of AT's FO's is fair and equitable? That is what was on the table last night.
 

madjack

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deleted...pushed the key twice...
 
Last edited:

FlyinHigh737

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no matter how much you guys want to pretend that your'e indestructible.

No need for that,we all want the best for our careers and families. Lets see what comes out of all this. PCL128, you may want to tone down your dislike for us, not smart...
 

madjack

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PCL said: Career earnings are impossible to predict from mainline carrier to mainline carrier. Yes, it's easy to say that working at any mainline carrier will earn you more over the course of a career than a career at a regional, but it's impossible to say that a career at SWA is any more valuable in the long term than a career at any other mainline carrier.

OK MR PCL, find me ONE commercial airline pilot who having been offerred jobs at both SWA and AAI, went to AAI...Good luck, and there is a reason that may be hard to do...
 

redflyer65

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Forget it PCL. It's like arguing to a wall.

He'll just try and spin it to what could have been or should have been.
 

GuppyWN

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My banker doesn't ask what seat I sit in, he asks me how much I earn.

Gup
 

maxthrottle

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IT's always dangerous to believe your own BS. No matter who you are. Clearly this is not a merger and certainly not of equals. But one party seems to want to insist that it is by their demands. And to say this is about seniority and not pay is complete foolish nonsense. Because we all know seniority translates into pay. Even arbitrators know this. IF I had a choice I'd take the staple. This cannnot be a one side takes all agreement. If the SWA pay differential is high, then what do SWA pilots gain in this? Nothing? I don't think it bodes well for either side to come off as looking greedy. Mr. Kelly's first goal is to preserve the culture he has. IF the groups cannot amiably come to agreement and either side will be indefinitely hostile, he will likely not jeopardize his existing employees through this acquisition. This is basic business sense. No amount of legal wrangling or threats by anyone can cause him to lose sight of this. THe resulting actions may be expensive to SWA and painful for many, but I believe he will put the preservation of SWA first. The more this looks like America West- USAir, the less likely it is to happen. In fact that could very well be his justification for whatever eventual action takes place...
 

stalker

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Hey PCL, if that is the case maybe you should get your app in over at us air now before the big rush! You stay classy now!
 

PCL_128

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My banker doesn't ask what seat I sit in, he asks me how much I earn.
He doesn't ask you how many days off you get, either, but I'm pretty sure it's important to you.
 

madjack

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Find an arbiter that will knock 40% off a mid seniority CA then.


Find an arbitration where there existed so much difference in pay, benefits, career expectations, between the principles...I am not advocating a staple, but no arbiter could agree that any SWA pilot should be junior to an AAI pilot with a later DOH...even straight DOH penalizes the SWA pilots due to age and retirements within the AAI group.
 

RLAblows

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I'm thinking about heading to Sonic to try another Chicago Dog or a Baja Dog.

This dog's got bite. With melty pepper jack, tomatoes, chopped onions and spicy jalapenos in a poppy seed bun, the Baja Dog for $1.99. Summer's heating up. Get your hands on one today or try the rest of our Premium Beef Hot Dog lineup, all made with 100% pure beef.

Now back to your head banging.
 

afhercdriver

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Do you feel like a staple of all of AT's FO's is fair and equitable? That is what was on the table last night.
Easydoesit,

In short, if this was indeed the offer, it falls far short of my expectations. A couple of reasons and examples. A tranny friend in my military unit was asked on Sept 28 if SWA called and offered him a job without the type and ATP if he would take it. His answer was absolutely yes. Now he is pushing for relative. Go figure. Another expample is the AAI 737 Captain I met on an over night. It was just the two of us. He asked me about the 123 so I bought him a beer. While enjoying our beer together he told me he was trying to get a job at SWA. Hated AAI. I don't remember his name it was a couple of years ago. If SWA called you on Sept 26 and offered you a job, what would you have done? Be honest, we already know the answer.

Respectfully,
Jim
 

GhettoBeechjet

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Career earnings are impossible to predict from mainline carrier to mainline carrier. Yes, it's easy to say that working at any mainline carrier will earn you more over the course of a career than a career at a regional, but it's impossible to say that a career at SWA is any more valuable in the long term than a career at any other mainline carrier. Just 10 years ago, a career at Delta was more valuable than a career at SWA by a country mile. Now? Not so much. It can change in the blink of an eye. In another 10 years, a career at USAirways may look like a better bet than a career at SWA. Anything can happen, no matter how much you guys want to pretend that your'e indestructible.

PCL thanks for the ALPA talking points but you are missing a major piece of reality here. SWA was designed and is run as a sustainable buisness model. As such the inflation adjusted trip rates of the pilots have never changed unlike other carriers where they swing wildly. 10 years ago the SWAPA pilots were critized for flying for so little compared to the legacy airlines. Now we are at the top of the pile by default making the same inflation adjusted dollars. Management does a good job of running the company. The other half of the equation is that labor does a good job of asking for fair rates and work rules that allow the company to continue to prosper. The only long term variablity in our compensation is in profit sharing.

No one and nothing is indestructable but over a 40 year period SWA pilot pay rates have been very predicatable.
 

RLAblows

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Easydoesit,

In short, if this was indeed the offer, it falls far short of my expectations. A couple of reasons and examples. A tranny friend in my military unit was asked on Sept 28 if SWA called and offered him a job without the type and ATP if he would take it. His answer was absolutely yes. Now he is pushing for relative. Go figure. Another expample is the AAI 737 Captain I met on an over night. It was just the two of us. He asked me about the 123 so I bought him a beer. While enjoying our beer together he told me he was trying to get a job at SWA. Hated AAI. I don't remember his name it was a couple of years ago. If SWA called you on Sept 26 and offered you a job, what would you have done? Be honest, we already know the answer.

Respectfully,
Jim

If you already know the answer, why ask the question? Define presumptuous or arrogance, superpilot.
 

Falcon Jet 1

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We all know that GK has more than one plan, he didnt spend over a billion dollars to have pilots dictate how he is going to run his company.
 

burg

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Todd, Have you gotten more retarded as you have gotten older?

Just wondering,

your friend
JTV
 

GhettoBeechjet

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Like one or several of your LUV brothers have stated, you guys really need to understand what is acceptable to you. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that a staple in any sort of fashion will not fly. Not with Airtran, not with any group, I don't think. The Frontier guys turned down a staple. Even as their company was in dire financial stress. How in the world do you expect a group from an airline that was in solid financial footing to take anything resembling a staple? It is not reasonable, and quite frankly highly impossible. I don't care how much you brag about your pay, and this and that. Even the humiliation tactics won't work.

I fail to see where the combined Airtran group is crying arbitration or nothing. They have stated that if a fair deal is not reached, that they are ready to take their chances in arbitration. What choice do they have? To take what you are offering even if they consider it unacceptable? Again, unacceptable might be some sort of a staple, for the record. That is the process that you guys agreed to. It's just a logical step in the order of things. You may not like it, they may not like it, but that is the process. Besides, if you are so sure of the "ultimate" outcome, why do you appear so afraid of it?

You have stated that if you don't like the results, the whole thing could be nuked. Well, with that in mind, if I was a LUV guy, I'd be pushing for arbitration til kingdom come, and eventually get my dream scenario. After all, you guys don't appear to think that you need Airtran and the synergies that might be realized with a combined group, right? Don't worry, DAL agrees with you. Heck, Anderson will even cheer you on!

While Southwest has always managed to outperform and defy nay sayers, I think this time you could end up on the wrong side of History. In your nuke scenario, you would be putting gainfully employed families on the street. Those pilots, gate agents, res. agents, etc. etc., have families as well. Families that by all accounts were somewhat comfortable in their situations before your arrival. I'm not implying that LUV pilots had anything to do with the purchase of that carrier. Some of you, however, are very clear in your desires if you don't get your way. Wether it's serious or implied, possible or impossible, I don't think it's cool at all. I know, you could careless what I think, fine.

Ask anybody that was at TWA and see how they felt when the rug was pulled from under them. At least in the TWA case, 911 had a lot to do with it. Here it would be like junior not getting his way and telling daddy to kill it. Totally different circumstances. If that makes you sleep well at night, then by all means. Rest assured, however, that most in the pilot world no matter how intense the competition between our carriers, would never wish that upon you. Regardless of how much I may, or, may not disagree with you.

I think you are failing to understand the basic point here. I don't think anyone really wants the nuclear option. I think I can speak for the vast majority of the group when I say we hope this works for the long term benefit of all and we can move on together as a srong united group.
The point is that given the choice of a bad SLI or continuing to go it alone we would prefer to continue to go on our way on our own. The problem really is that almost anything your side seems to be to consider "acceptable" will damage the career earnings of almost every SWAPA pilot while greatly increasing the career earnings of almost every AAI pilot.
 

Bob Dylan

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Like one or several of your LUV brothers have stated, you guys really need to understand what is acceptable to you. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that a staple in any sort of fashion will not fly. Not with Airtran, not with any group, I don't think. The Frontier guys turned down a staple. Even as their company was in dire financial stress. How in the world do you expect a group from an airline that was in solid financial footing to take anything resembling a staple? It is not reasonable, and quite frankly highly impossible. I don't care how much you brag about your pay, and this and that. Even the humiliation tactics won't work.

I fail to see where the combined Airtran group is crying arbitration or nothing. They have stated that if a fair deal is not reached, that they are ready to take their chances in arbitration. What choice do they have? To take what you are offering even if they consider it unacceptable? Again, unacceptable might be some sort of a staple, for the record. That is the process that you guys agreed to. It's just a logical step in the order of things. You may not like it, they may not like it, but that is the process. Besides, if you are so sure of the "ultimate" outcome, why do you appear so afraid of it?

You have stated that if you don't like the results, the whole thing could be nuked. Well, with that in mind, if I was a LUV guy, I'd be pushing for arbitration til kingdom come, and eventually get my dream scenario. After all, you guys don't appear to think that you need Airtran and the synergies that might be realized with a combined group, right? Don't worry, DAL agrees with you. Heck, Anderson will even cheer you on!

While Southwest has always managed to outperform and defy nay sayers, I think this time you could end up on the wrong side of History. In your nuke scenario, you would be putting gainfully employed families on the street. Those pilots, gate agents, res. agents, etc. etc., have families as well. Families that by all accounts were somewhat comfortable in their situations before your arrival. I'm not implying that LUV pilots had anything to do with the purchase of that carrier. Some of you, however, are very clear in your desires if you don't get your way. Wether it's serious or implied, possible or impossible, I don't think it's cool at all. I know, you could careless what I think, fine.

Ask anybody that was at TWA and see how they felt when the rug was pulled from under them. At least in the TWA case, 911 had a lot to do with it. Here it would be like junior not getting his way and telling daddy to kill it. Totally different circumstances. If that makes you sleep well at night, then by all means. Rest assured, however, that most in the pilot world no matter how intense the competition between our carriers, would never wish that upon you. Regardless of how much I may, or, may not disagree with you.
Oh boo hoo. All of us in the cheap seats feel very sad for you and your golden lottery ticket with the massive pay increases and benefits when your crappy airline got bought out by Southwest.

You would have dropped to your knees for a SWA job before they buyout was announced. Now it's just greed.
 

dedazo

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Oh Boo hoo Dylan... 0028 at night on a friday and making another trashing post on flight info......you are a real winner huh? LOL
 
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