SWAPA Comments about 717

[humveedriver]

Guys,

I wouldn't sweat it. Judging from the reactions at alpha papa charlie, DAL isnt going to pass the TA.

Problem solved.

Nu

Telling your buddies the TA is a POS and you are not voting for it is airline SOP. Then somehow 55 percent vote yes and no one admits to voting for it. If GK wants the plane gone it will happen. He can park them and still achieve his goals of single fleet type (mx costs, training and equipment/crew swaps).

 

[Just thinking]

"Regardless of the events that led to the demise of the first SLI and the completion of the second SLI, Airtran pilots traded a loss of pay and protections for better seniority. SWA pilots were able to capitalize on the lack of protections, but at the expense of less seniority gain."

Yeah that meteoric jump from 3.5 years loss to 3 years was what FAT pilots were shooting for. FAT pilots are used to being screwed over by their union, their management and now we are getting used to getting screwed over by the management lead by gk. Now everything is being structured to bum rush the captain vacancies to ensure the a minimal amount of FAT pilots cross the partition as Captains. Chase's letter is a tell all to the way that the FAT pilots are viewed by their RSW counterparts. Not feeling the LUV from any dealings with the company that embraces "the golden rule." Lip service at best.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

I don't see your point, should a pilot group not try to better themselves simply because another is worse off? Have you ever subscribed to your theory?

All I'm saying is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. I think that's how the saying goes. I, along with many other SWA JR guys got screwed by all this and as hard as it may be, we need to try and find the good out of all this. I for one am just hoping in the "near" future we all can look back and see the good (and benefits) from the crap that's going on. Sorry if I offended you, it was unintentional.

 

[ASADFW7]

There is no commentary that can capture the mix of perspectives that the B717 going away may bring to either side, as it hasn't happened yet. Every time something is going to happen a certain way, something else happens to change the outcome. All I am doing is trying to hang on. Perhaps something will change again to move the storm clouds away, at least there are a few retirements to distract from the impact along the way later this year.

 

[EntertheCentury]

I'm a mid seniority SWA FO. And I understand the Airtran anger.

But consider MY perspective: my company forced me into a seniority integration with 1700+ pilots (vice organic growth), then decided they didn't want 2/3 of their airplanes.

I'm pissed too. But not at you guys. Nor should you be pissed at me.

Smart guy he is!

 

[fam62c]

I really don't intend to sound like an a-hole here, but this just wouldn't be right.

Regardless of the events that led to the demise of the first SLI and the completion of the second SLI, Airtran pilots traded a loss of pay and protections for better seniority. SWA pilots were able to capitalize on the lack of protections, but at the expense of less seniority gain.

My point is that if money were more important than seniority, y'all could have had it. However, that would have meant more seniority for our side. Y'all paid for your seniority gain. To revisit and give youl more money now should be countered with us asking for more seniority in exchange.

I realize that it doesn't harm me if you make our pay today or in three years, but you paid for more seniority. Period.

Now...as far as revesiting the SLI, our airline is dumping 2/3 of your fleet. Are you sure you want to revisit that?

I said that in an earlier post, if the AT pilots are given more than they have now in compensation ahead of schedule (even though the SW pilots aren't losing anything) the SW pilots will want any gains the AT pilots get plus something more. If Daddy gives the stepkids a candy bar the real kids will want two more candy bars even though they already have way more candy bars than anybody else has. This is why SW can't do anything for the AT pilots to help smooth over the mess that has been created.

Given this situation, when SW comes to the AT pilots asking for the flexibility to make the new transition plan work the answer will have to be no unless SW can make the additional reduction in QOL (beyond what has already been dumped on the AT pilots) worth it. If they try to compensate the AT pilots for the additonal disruption to their lives required to make the new plan work the SW unions will howl in protest.

In the end I think the only option SW has is to just do what they want to do when they want to do it and let the chips fall where they may. If the AT pilots resist they will find a way to beat them until they stop resisting, employee concerns at AT are not going to get in their way, it's business plain and simple. SW will do what they have to at AT to keep the SW mothership sailing steadily and the real SW employees from being upset. Mid 2013 until AT is defunct will be a difficult time to be an AT pilot.

 

[Kharma Police]

I said that in an earlier post, if the AT pilots are given more than they have now in compensation ahead of schedule (even though the SW pilots aren't losing anything) the SW pilots will want any gains the AT pilots get plus something more. If Daddy gives the stepkids a candy bar the real kids will want two more candy bars even though they already have way more candy bars than anybody else has. This is why SW can't do anything for the AT pilots to help smooth over the mess that has been created.

Given this situation, when SW comes to the AT pilots asking for the flexibility to make the new transition plan work the answer will have to be no unless SW can make the additional reduction in QOL (beyond what has already been dumped on the AT pilots) worth it. If they try to compensate the AT pilots for the additonal disruption to their lives required to make the new plan work the SW unions will howl in protest.

In the end I think the only option SW has is to just do what they want to do when they want to do it and let the chips fall where they may. If the AT pilots resist they will find a way to beat them until they stop resisting, employee concerns at AT are not going to get in their way, it's business plain and simple. SW will do what they have to at AT to keep the SW mothership sailing steadily and the real SW employees from being upset. Mid 2013 until AT is defunct will be a difficult time to be an AT pilot.

The Southwest Managers that have been very gracious to talk to us "step kids" have reminded me of the wonderful speeches by former President Clinton,

"We feel your pain" but we aren't going to do a thing about it, suckas!!!!

 

[dicko]

Really? GFY

Word.

 

[Full of LUV]

I said that in an earlier post, if the AT pilots are given more than they have now in compensation ahead of schedule (even though the SW pilots aren't losing anything) the SW pilots will want any gains the AT pilots get plus something more. If Daddy gives the stepkids a candy bar the real kids will want two more candy bars even though they already have way more candy bars than anybody else has. This is why SW can't do anything for the AT pilots to help smooth over the mess that has been created.

Given this situation, when SW comes to the AT pilots asking for the flexibility to make the new transition plan work the answer will have to be no unless SW can make the additional reduction in QOL (beyond what has already been dumped on the AT pilots) worth it. If they try to compensate the AT pilots for the additonal disruption to their lives required to make the new plan work the SW unions will howl in protest.

In the end I think the only option SW has is to just do what they want to do when they want to do it and let the chips fall where they may. If the AT pilots resist they will find a way to beat them until they stop resisting, employee concerns at AT are not going to get in their way, it's business plain and simple. SW will do what they have to at AT to keep the SW mothership sailing steadily and the real SW employees from being upset. Mid 2013 until AT is defunct will be a difficult time to be an AT pilot.

Seems to me if SWA mgmt really wanted to hang on to any of their vaunted culture, they'd get the integration and desimation of AT over as quick as possible. With a two year plan with pay differences and dragging out the demise of the 717, there will be two years of hard feelings and resentment. Pay equity now would go along way to blending the luv across the brand names.

 

[Full of LUV]

I really don't intend to sound like an a-hole here, but this just wouldn't be right.

Regardless of the events that led to the demise of the first SLI and the completion of the second SLI, Airtran pilots traded a loss of pay and protections for better seniority. SWA pilots were able to capitalize on the lack of protections, but at the expense of less seniority gain.

My point is that if money were more important than seniority, y'all could have had it. However, that would have meant more seniority for our side. Y'all paid for your seniority gain. To revisit and give youl more money now should be countered with us asking for more seniority in exchange.

I realize that it doesn't harm me if you make our pay today or in three years, but you paid for more seniority. Period.

Now...as far as revesiting the SLI, our airline is dumping 2/3 of your fleet. Are you sure you want to revisit that?

So you admit, it's SWAPA and SWA vs AT ALPA. How can FAT pilots have a chance when SWAPA gets to determine the FAT pilots pay. Still amazed that SWAPA is fine with 2.5 year transition to one company.....well at least SWA can enjoy bag fees for another couple of years while proclaiming they don't charge any.

 

[dicko]

Ask SWAPA what happened when they wanted SWA pilots doing the San Juan flying. Even the APA were smart enough to realize they could be whipsawed when American 'acquired' TWA. Apparently Chase thought SWAPA was immune.

 

[redflyer65]

So you admit, it's SWAPA and SWA vs AT ALPA. How can FAT pilots have a chance when SWAPA gets to determine the FAT pilots pay. Still amazed that SWAPA is fine with 2.5 year transition to one company.....well at least SWA can enjoy bag fees for another couple of years while proclaiming they don't charge any.

There were plenty of post on here prior to SL9 stating that AAI ALPA was not just negotiating with SWAPA but SW at the same time. Absolutely no one on here believed it. Then SW brought the hammer. It was no surprise on the this side of the aisle. It's all business at the GO when the rubber meets the road.

If the lastest Side Letters pass, I expect SW to announce San Juan and shortly there after, and possibly Alaska.

 

[scoreboardII]

Then the world, muhahahaha.

 

[ILUVURBANMYERS]

Commuter I am. Got on the Hyatt place van in LAS on the 25th. 3 Airtran F/A's on board. Said my how's it going, where are you off to today? Crickets.... Then is a slightly louder voice "where are you off to today?" Nothing not a word.......Then in a much louder voice (the van driver put his hand in the air like no problem no problem kind of way) I said WHERE ARE YOU OFF TO TODAY" and I got the "talk to the hand" wave from one of them. I said SWA management made this call if you pull this ******************** with me when I am the Captain on your flight you are off the jet-count on it.
Silence.......
Go Gators.

 

[BR715]

RRRRiiiiigggghhht!