SWAPA Comments about 717

[SWA Bubba]

....

Less than stellar communiques'. I understand that he is wanting to celebrate a "win" for your pilot group, but coming at the expense of another group that you will eventually have to work with, it could have been tamed down a bit for future relations between our groups.

...

I certainly agree 100% with that! I don't think you'll find many Southwest guys who don't think SWAPA's communication skills have pretty much sucked lately.

Bubba

 

[scoreboardII]

You're still closer to upgrade than you were before, had you not merged. You had an overall relative seniority gain of 14.23% based on your specific overall relative seniority.

Scoreboard you are a class act: I like how you tell us how it isn't so bad losing over 80% of our captain slots. And how now - you are screwed because a few AAI pilots will be able to upgrade in 2015. UFB.

Thank you but no, that number is incorrect.

 

[Dan Roman]

You know, I was gonna' ask you how exactly you thought Capt Chase SHOULD have phrased this, when communicating management's decision to his constituents, but I changed my mind. I think we've had enough of your "helpful" commentary on this subject. Thanks for all of that, by the way. You're a peach.

Bubba

As you admit elsewhere, Chase's wording was weak to say the least as is the perspective that anyone taking someone else's seat can be a good thing. That's my whole point.

As far as being anti-SWA because I throw a few stones? If you read my posts on SWA they are from the bigger airline absorbing a smaller airline perspective. I am anti merger abuse, not anti SWA. You don't see me on the Houston Hobby threads, etc. I think you know who I work for so you can understand why. If DAL bought SWA I would be on here defending the SWA pilots if DAL tried to do to you what SWA did to AirTran.

(although, some of you still need to keep that warrior spirit in check when you taxi!)

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Consider the fact that SWA never wanted the 717. And yes, although i can't prove that to be the case, it is obvious. SWA bought AirTran for 1/3 of their airplanes, Atlanta, a few slots in LGA and National, and a minuscule presence outside the border. SWA never had to integrate the seniority list. Every AirTran pilot could have been sent to the street.

SWA pilots have been hurt in this deal a large amount. Many will never see he left seat. Many will get displaced out of their base. All will suffer the animosity in the cockpit going forward. Many here will be paid less than the guy behind him due to AirTran keeping longevity as they come to the SWA payscale. On the plus side - some SWA FOs will get to the captain seat sooner - where they will sit reserve for ever as AirTran guys come in and fill new vacancies above them.

I could go on and on about how you guys are lucky to not be on the street. I could piss and moan about how unfair it is that original SWA guys paid for a type and spent YEARS more on average getting to SWA than you did getting to AirTran. I could write pages about all that because I am truly infuriated at the attitude coming from many of you guys.

In the end, as I meet former AirTran pilots coming over to the SWA side, I'm being cordial and welcoming. So far they have been similarly polite and friendly. I hope it stays that way because if you want to complain about how bad you have it, I promise you won't get any sympathy from the guy who will end up pulling gear for you for the remainder of his career. You might have gotten bumped to the right seat for a few years, but you will bid cush schedules and get all the cush vacations until you get back to the left seat (where you will be spared sitting in reserve hell due to the original SWA guy who will be forced to do that for you.)

Over 80% of our collective pilots voted for this SLI to go this way. Both groups feel like we were pressured into it (minus the senior SWA FOs benefitting from it). Most of us are feeling like we bought the junk behind door number three and the other guy got the brand new car. So as other have suggested, why don't we try to move ahead because anything else we do will be unproductive and will ultimately be bad for us all.

 

[Dan Roman]

Consider the fact that SWA never wanted the 717. And yes, although i can't prove that to be the case, it is obvious. SWA bought AirTran for 1/3 of their airplanes, Atlanta, a few slots in LGA and National, and a minuscule presence outside the border. SWA never had to integrate the seniority list. Every AirTran pilot could have been sent to the street.

SWA pilots have been hurt in this deal a large amount. Many will never see he left seat. Many will get displaced out of their base. All will suffer the animosity in the cockpit going forward. Many here will be paid less than the guy behind him due to AirTran keeping longevity as they come to the SWA payscale. On the plus side - some SWA FOs will get to the captain seat sooner - where they will sit reserve for ever as AirTran guys come in and fill new vacancies above them.

I could go on and on about how you guys are lucky to not be on the street. I could piss and moan about how unfair it is that original SWA guys paid for a type and spent YEARS more on average getting to SWA than you did getting to AirTran. I could write pages about all that because I am truly infuriated at the attitude coming from many of you guys.

In the end, as I meet former AirTran pilots coming over to the SWA side, I'm being cordial and welcoming. So far they have been similarly polite and friendly. I hope it stays that way because if you want to complain about how bad you have it, I promise you won't get any sympathy from the guy who will end up pulling gear for you for the remainder of his career. You might have gotten bumped to the right seat for a few years, but you will bid cush schedules and get all the cush vacations until you get back to the left seat (where you will be spared sitting in reserve hell due to the original SWA guy who will be forced to do that for you.)

Over 80% of our collective pilots voted for this SLI to go this way. Both groups feel like we were pressured into it (minus the senior SWA FOs benefitting from it). Most of us are feeling like we bought the junk behind door number three and the other guy got the brand new car. So as other have suggested, why don't we try to move ahead because anything else we do will be unproductive and will ultimately be bad for us all.

Well if there are many with your attitude, get use to a career of infighting and anger........."you guys are lucky not to be on the street"..... Really? REALLY?

 

[Full of LUV]

So why did SWA buy AT ? What assets did they get ?

Instant access to ATL, international flights, more 737's, the ability to charge bag fees without claiming that SWA charges "bag fees".

 

[4day]

Consider the fact that SWA never wanted the 717. And yes, although i can't prove that to be the case, it is obvious. SWA bought AirTran for 1/3 of their airplanes, Atlanta, a few slots in LGA and National, and a minuscule presence outside the border. SWA never had to integrate the seniority list. Every AirTran pilot could have been sent to the street.

SWA pilots have been hurt in this deal a large amount. Many will never see he left seat. Many will get displaced out of their base. All will suffer the animosity in the cockpit going forward. Many here will be paid less than the guy behind him due to AirTran keeping longevity as they come to the SWA payscale. On the plus side - some SWA FOs will get to the captain seat sooner - where they will sit reserve for ever as AirTran guys come in and fill new vacancies above them.

I could go on and on about how you guys are lucky to not be on the street. I could piss and moan about how unfair it is that original SWA guys paid for a type and spent YEARS more on average getting to SWA than you did getting to AirTran. I could write pages about all that because I am truly infuriated at the attitude coming from many of you guys.

In the end, as I meet former AirTran pilots coming over to the SWA side, I'm being cordial and welcoming. So far they have been similarly polite and friendly. I hope it stays that way because if you want to complain about how bad you have it, I promise you won't get any sympathy from the guy who will end up pulling gear for you for the remainder of his career. You might have gotten bumped to the right seat for a few years, but you will bid cush schedules and get all the cush vacations until you get back to the left seat (where you will be spared sitting in reserve hell due to the original SWA guy who will be forced to do that for you.)

Over 80% of our collective pilots voted for this SLI to go this way. Both groups feel like we were pressured into it (minus the senior SWA FOs benefitting from it). Most of us are feeling like we bought the junk behind door number three and the other guy got the brand new car. So as other have suggested, why don't we try to move ahead because anything else we do will be unproductive and will ultimately be bad for us all.

Don't know what to say about this crap...

 

[SWA Bubba]

As you admit elsewhere, Chase's wording was weak to say the least as is the perspective that anyone taking someone else's seat can be a good thing. That's my whole point.

As far as being anti-SWA because I throw a few stones? If you read my posts on SWA they are from the bigger airline absorbing a smaller airline perspective. I am anti merger abuse, not anti SWA. You don't see me on the Houston Hobby threads, etc. I think you know who I work for so you can understand why. If DAL bought SWA I would be on here defending the SWA pilots if DAL tried to do to you what SWA did to AirTran.

(although, some of you still need to keep that warrior spirit in check when you taxi!)

Didn't say you were "anti-SWA." I believe I said "anti-SWAPA," or "anti-SWA pilot." You seem to tie SWA management decisions with the pilots who are mostly just along for the ride, and you sling mud on THEM, as if they were the ones who created all this mess. Hell, in the end, it was even management who created the SLI agreement! But I suppose that in your eyes, SWA pilots are azzholes because you see it benefiting them more. I have news for you, Dan--a sizeable portion of our pilots don't see it that way, and still wish this acquisition had never happened. This is all about perception. How the employees of the smaller company see it vs. how the employees of the bigger company see it. And since you work for a smaller airline, it's easy to predict where your perspective will fall for any given situation. However, in this case, your invective is not welcome or helpful for those of us dealing with the fallout of decisions that are out of our hands.

That's all I'm sayin'.

Bubba

 

[humveedriver]

Consider the fact that SWA never wanted the 717. And yes, although i can't prove that to be the case, it is obvious. SWA bought AirTran for 1/3 of their airplanes, Atlanta, a few slots in LGA and National, and a minuscule presence outside the border. SWA never had to integrate the seniority list. Every AirTran pilot could have been sent to the street.

SWA pilots have been hurt in this deal a large amount. Many will never see he left seat. Many will get displaced out of their base. All will suffer the animosity in the cockpit going forward. Many here will be paid less than the guy behind him due to AirTran keeping longevity as they come to the SWA payscale. On the plus side - some SWA FOs will get to the captain seat sooner - where they will sit reserve for ever as AirTran guys come in and fill new vacancies above them.

I could go on and on about how you guys are lucky to not be on the street. I could piss and moan about how unfair it is that original SWA guys paid for a type and spent YEARS more on average getting to SWA than you did getting to AirTran. I could write pages about all that because I am truly infuriated at the attitude coming from many of you guys.

In the end, as I meet former AirTran pilots coming over to the SWA side, I'm being cordial and welcoming. So far they have been similarly polite and friendly. I hope it stays that way because if you want to complain about how bad you have it, I promise you won't get any sympathy from the guy who will end up pulling gear for you for the remainder of his career. You might have gotten bumped to the right seat for a few years, but you will bid cush schedules and get all the cush vacations until you get back to the left seat (where you will be spared sitting in reserve hell due to the original SWA guy who will be forced to do that for you.)

Over 80% of our collective pilots voted for this SLI to go this way. Both groups feel like we were pressured into it (minus the senior SWA FOs benefitting from it). Most of us are feeling like we bought the junk behind door number three and the other guy got the brand new car. So as other have suggested, why don't we try to move ahead because anything else we do will be unproductive and will ultimately be bad for us all.

You guys invested your time, money and ambition to get on with SWA. In return you got 1700 pilots who did none of that integrated in with you. Would I be pissed if I were you? Hell yeah! As far as being on the street goes. GK testified before congress (with BF) that wouldn't happen. It was part of the
getting DOJ approval to begin with. I appreciate your post. The more you hear our story and the more we hear yours, the quicker we will get this behind us.

 

[SWA Bubba]

As you admit elsewhere, Chase's wording was weak to say the least as is the perspective that anyone taking someone else's seat can be a good thing. That's my whole point.

Actually, it's his job to put this message out to his constituents, especially the ones who aren't happy about the acquisition in the first place. He's telling them that there's a little bit of good news for them.

What could have been done better, is the wording or the handling of the message. Like maybe keep it private. Although, these days, nothing stays private for long, because someone always posts it on FI to attach their particular spin to it. Then people like you jump on the bandwagon to whip people into a frenzy. It's like some people just look for a reason to be pissed off at someone else. It's not helpful.

Bubba