SWAPA Comments about 717

[SWA Bubba]

If you're really looking for a serious answer in this, here it is: The 737-500 is more economcal to operate than the 717 because they are not leased. They are long since paid for. As long as the maintenance costs don't exceed operating revenue (so far), then they make money. And since we have the world's largest stockpile of 737 classic parts, and similar maintenance schedules to the rest of our planes, it'll be that way for a while.

Bubba[/QUOT

Actually nine are leased. Form the 10Q

http://filecache.drivetheweb.com/ir1_southwest/408/download/10Q+Filed+4.25.12.pdf

Wow, good for you for searching through all of that. I stand corrected. MOST of them are owned outright. But I presume that the leased ones are at rates considered attractive by SWA. One of the chiefs told me that we have some planes that we owned, then sold to someone else with a lease-back provision. I don't know if those nine -500s fit into this category or not, but I presume someone smarter than your average pilot figured it was a good financial deal for us.

But, as pointed out by someone else above, they're gonna' go away relatively soon as well. The trick to which -300s and -500s we're planning on keeping any length of time is whether they've had winglets added. The number-crunchers have to be sure we're keeping a particular plane long enough to make that particular cost pay off. The ones without winglets are leaving first. None of our -500s have winglets.

Thanks for the info.

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

Bubba's correct, they did do some 'lease-backs' because the rates are sooo low. Just before the AAI purchase, Southwest owned around 83% of their airframes. After AAI the combination is around 72%. A very solid balance sheet.

 

[Just thinking]

Yeah we brought nothing to the table...................
How many of "your" seats went to any of these destinations?


Domestic U.S. Cities International Destinations
Atlanta Aruba, Cancun, Nassau, Montego Bay, Punta Cana,
San Juan
Austin Cancun5
Baltimore/Washington, D.C.
(BWI) Aruba, Bermuda1, Cancun, Nassau, Montego Bay,
San Juan
Chicago Midway (MDW)7 Cancun*
Ft. Lauderdale San Juan3
Denver Cancun2
Milwaukee Cancun
Orange County6 Cabo San Lucas/Los Cabos, Mexico City
Orlando Aruba, Montego Bay, San Juan
San Antonio4 Cancun, Mexico City
Tampa Bay San Juan
International flights are operated by AirTran and are not available for purchase from Southwest Airlines. Checked bags will not be transferred between any Southwest Airlines flight and AirTran flight.

*Subject to foreign Government approval

1Baltimore – Bermuda service will return on 04/10/2012.
2Denver – Cancun service will start on 04/16/2012.
3Ft. Lauderdale – San Juan service will start on 05/24/2012.
4San Antonio – Cancun & Mexico City will start on 05/24/2012.
5Austin – Cancun service will start on 05/25/2012.
6Orange County – Cabo San Lucas & Mexico City will start on 06/03/2012.
7Chicago Midway-Cancun service will start on 06/03/2012.

 

[Uppercrust]

AAI seniority ceased to exists the minute the airline was bought...that is a fact...every airline that SWA acquired prior to AAI, the pilots of the acquired airline started at the bottom...AA screws STL (and the TWA pilots) and we get a law...SWA buys AAI and mgmt and both unions overwhelmingly approve a SLI that gives former AAI pilots seniority on the SWA MSL...many AAI pilots go ahead of SWA pilots who interviewed, got typed and started at the bottom at SWA (some of those pilots were former AAI CPs and FOs)...so who is getting "screwed"?

Southwest signed the Process Agreement and failed to abide by it. Airtran pilots have been discriminated against by your management and SWAPA union and have solely shouldered the burden of this merger.

This is not over by any stretch

 

[humveedriver]

Southwest signed the Process Agreement and failed to abide by it. Airtran pilots have been discriminated against by your management and SWAPA union and have solely shouldered the burden of this merger.

This is not over by any stretch

You would know its over if you worked for either company. Go easy on those bath salts Crusty!

 

[redflyer65]

Southwest signed the Process Agreement and failed to abide by it. Airtran pilots have been discriminated against by your management and SWAPA union and have solely shouldered the burden of this merger.

This is not over by any stretch

How has SWAPA discriminated against a pilot that's an ALPA member? I'd say that's a stretch.

Let's be clear, this deal is over and we all need to move on from it. The company will continue to make business decisions that they think is best. I'm sorry that the last move (telegraphed for the last two months) has harmed the 717 CAs...even though they will make similiar money and probably have better QOL/bidding. If the company needed to make a move that harmed SW pilots I'm sure they would for the greater good of the company. I don't see us furloughing a single pilot with any of this. Gary takes a tremendous amount of pride in that 'no furlough on my watch' position.

Time to move on.

 

[texman]

If we still have a job by 2015, we all won!

 

[FlyinGuy]

Know how to tell when someone lost an argument? They use "discrimination" in their rebuttals.

 

[DonVerita]

If you really do not like it quit.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen...the scab mentality - cower and advise retreat when confronted with adversity. That has been your M.O. ever since your days at EAL.

 

[boeing717]

There you have it ladies and gentlemen...the scab mentality - cower and advise retreat when confronted with adversity. That has been your M.O. ever since your days at EAL.

I am not the person you think I am. Besides, how would you ever know who I am.

If you are unhappy with the deal then you have a couple of options. Either get over it or quit. You made your bed now sleep in it. Some people think SWA should show some compassion and give you the same pay before due time. Really, do you think that will happen? You got more than you deserve anyway.

 

[humveedriver]

I am not the person you think I am. Besides, how would you ever know who I am.

If you are unhappy with the deal then you have a couple of options. Either get over it or quit. You made your bed now sleep in it. Some people think SWA should show some compassion and give you the same pay before due time. Really, do you think that will happen? You got more than you deserve anyway.

You know its one thing to waste your time on this website hoping to hear the next big rumor or have a decent debate about SLI or scope or Hobby Airport. But when you actually get satisfaction out of being an Internet troll. You have my complete sympathy you sad little man.

 

[carl p]

...x2...

 

[PCL_128]

More or less you see what I mean. I do see the biding frustration. My friend just ran into the new hire (AT) guy and said he has had a great new hire experience.

AirTran pilots are not new hires.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

This whole thing is just fricked up.

 

[Dan Roman]

AirTran pilots are not new hires.

That sums up this whole deal better than anyone else on here as well as Texman showing just how myopic the SWA perspective can be.

 

[WOWIdidntKnow]

AirTran pilots are not new hires.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but they are indeed "new hires".

The only difference between an AT Pilot and some of my USAir / DL friends that came on over is, the AirTran pilot is a new hire with seniority, versus starting at the bottom like my 15 year USAir friend and my 20 year DL friend.

There is abosolutely nothing wrong with the "new hire" moniker, it simply indicates the person is "new" to doing things the Southwest way.

 

[Ty Webb]

You know its one thing to waste your time on this website hoping to hear the next big rumor or have a decent debate about SLI or scope or Hobby Airport. But when you actually get satisfaction out of being an Internet troll. You have my complete sympathy you sad little man.

He's actually on the tall side, for a troll. . . . Inside, though, 100% angry little man. :laugh:

 

[texman]

PCL, you know exactly what I mean. I know you are not new. To SWA you are.

 

[texman]

Dan, I always see what's ahead. Would you please stop being a Idiot Just saying old man.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, you know exactly what I mean. I know you are not new. To SWA you are.

Sorry to be so sensitive about it, Tex, but it is getting a little tiring being treated like we're nothing but new hires. A guy coming off the street as a new hire is not the same thing as one of our captains with 17 years of service going through transition training.

 

[Kharma Police]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but they are indeed "new hires".

The only difference between an AT Pilot and some of my USAir / DL friends that came on over is, the AirTran pilot is a new hire with seniority, versus starting at the bottom like my 15 year USAir friend and my 20 year DL friend.

There is abosolutely nothing wrong with the "new hire" moniker, it simply indicates the person is "new" to doing things the Southwest way.

Nice use of semantics, guy. I'm sure the Delta dudes called the NWA pilots new hires too?

Instead of, "used" why not call us "pre-owned" or some other silly moniker?

 

[humveedriver]

Did Delta pilots call NWA pilots new hires or attending new hire training when they came to ATL for training? Perhaps a DAL pilot could answer that. I realize it's a small thing. But you would be surprised how important it is. If SWA pilots are serious about moving on, they would do well to not say things like "we bought you". This is not the early 1800's. New hires apply for positions and don't have seniority. Sure we are new to the SWA way, but how many changes to that way are you already seeing since SWA bought AirTran? Just trying to provide a little perspective and echo what the rest of the industry is trying to tell you guys. It's YOUR ATTITUDE in this transaction that everyone is watching.

 

[canyonblue]

Nice use of semantics, guy. I'm sure the Delta dudes called the NWA pilots new hires too?

Last time I sat up on a Delta jumpseat they called the NWA guys something else, would you prefer that?

 

[humveedriver]

Last time I sat up on a Delta jumpseat they called the NWA guys something else, would you prefer that?

LOL! No!

 

[JT12345]

Last time I sat up on a Delta jumpseat they called the NWA guys something else, would you prefer that?

Yes.
.
.

 

[Lost]

Oh for f*** sake. So let me see if I can get this right, since I didn't know how to walk without drooling until I was "saved." . As soon as I depart my little AirTran "partition," as it has been so affectionately named, I get to become a new hire. You guys continue to amaze me and one up yourselves at an unimaginable pace.

 

[JT12345]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but they are indeed "new hires".

The only difference between an AT Pilot and some of my USAir / DL friends that came on over is, the AirTran pilot is a new hire with seniority, versus starting at the bottom like my 15 year USAir friend and my 20 year DL friend.

There is abosolutely nothing wrong with the "new hire" moniker, it simply indicates the person is "new" to doing things the Southwest way.

First you run around with "Hire not Acquire" stickers. The reason many SWA are pissed is 'because' we were not hired and did not go through the hiring process. 'Some' of you just continue to be idiots about this like your divisive MEC Chairman.

What is funny is how Steve Chase in this letter is actually trying to take credit for all this.

Calling us new hires is just like changing your American Flag neckties cause AT started wearing them or not wearing the 'One Luv' lanyards.

We know exactly what 'some' of you guys are doing, and what your intentions are.

 

[texman]

Sorry to be so sensitive about it, Tex, but it is getting a little tiring being treated like we're nothing but new hires. A guy coming off the street as a new hire is not the same thing as one of our captains with 17 years of service going through transition training.

I know what you mean in respect to someone that has 17 years on the AT side. PCL we are different. If you are new, then your new. We have all types of experience pilots here at SWA. The 17 year capt or even a 5 year AT/FO will realize that we at SWA treat new hires with respect, and right of the bat try to foster a fun easy going enviroment. WE don't pick on you or belittle the new hires. I have worked at several jobs where if you are new, you don't know shiz. Here at SWA we know a new hire has the experience and will be treated like so. It's a mutual respect. YOU will and I promise hear "welcome to SWA", "oh you are new" " oh you are AT, how do you like it so far", followed with "beers on me" from the pilots. Some times the FA's will buy. Just get ready to be joked with. Have a thick skin. We have fun here at SWA. If the 17yr AT capt can't take it then he will have a hard time here. To earn respect you have to give it. Senority or tenure will never give you this at SWA. Even us SWA peeps know this.

So when you guys come over, come over with a open mind. Don't allow the business decisions of the company make you feel any diffrent than the guy or girl sitting next to you. SWA's main goal is to give us JOB SECURITY. I hope you AT peeps will see the value in this.

 

[JT12345]

I know what you mean in respect to someone that has 17 years on the AT side. PCL we are different. If you are new, then your new. We have all types of experience pilots here at SWA. The 17 year capt or even a 5 year AT/FO will realize that we at SWA treat new hires with respect, and right of the bat try to foster a fun easy going enviroment. WE don't pick on you or belittle the new hires. I have worked at several jobs where if you are new, you don't know shiz. Here at SWA we know a new hire has the experience and will be treated like so. It's a mutual respect. YOU will and I promise hear "welcome to SWA", "oh you are new" " oh you are AT, how do you like it so far", followed with "beers on me" from the pilots. Some times the FA's will buy. Just get ready to be joked with. Have a thick skin. We have fun here at SWA. If the 17yr AT capt can't take it then he will have a hard time here. To earn respect you have to give it. Senority or tenure will never give you this at SWA. Even us SWA peeps know this.

So when you guys come over, come over with a open mind. Don't allow the business decisions of the company make you feel any diffrent than the guy or girl sitting next to you. SWA's main goal is to give us JOB SECURITY. I hope you AT peeps will see the value in this.

I hope so Tex.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

I know what you mean in respect to someone that has 17 years on the AT side. PCL we are different. If you are new, then your new. We have all types of experience pilots here at SWA. The 17 year capt or even a 5 year AT/FO will realize that we at SWA treat new hires with respect, and right of the bat try to foster a fun easy going enviroment. WE don't pick on you or belittle the new hires. I have worked at several jobs where if you are new, you don't know shiz. Here at SWA we know a new hire has the experience and will be treated like so. It's a mutual respect. YOU will and I promise hear "welcome to SWA", "oh you are new" " oh you are AT, how do you like it so far", followed with "beers on me" from the pilots. Some times the FA's will buy. Just get ready to be joked with. Have a thick skin. We have fun here at SWA. If the 17yr AT capt can't take it then he will have a hard time here. To earn respect you have to give it. Senority or tenure will never give you this at SWA. Even us SWA peeps know this.

So when you guys come over, come over with a open mind. Don't allow the business decisions of the company make you feel any diffrent than the guy or girl sitting next to you. SWA's main goal is to give us JOB SECURITY. I hope you AT peeps will see the value in this.

PCL has thousands of hours of experience bought and paid for at Gulfstream International. That should count for something right? :laugh: