SWAPA Comments about 717

[redflyer65]

Within the past two months, it was the worst kept secret in aviation that the 717 was going to Delta. Even the Delta guys knew it. I pretty sure Steve knew for sure with the miniumum two day notice from Southwest. They haven't really let us know anything of their concrete plans on anything lately, until it hits the papers.

 

[Max Powers]

How about the FO's who don't make the 2015 cut but would have had till end of lease through 2018-2021 to get into the seat due to those folks staying on the 717? Now, every seat until end of seniority disparity goes AT. It all depends where you are.

You're still closer to upgrade than you were before, had you not merged. You had an overall relative seniority gain of 14.23% based on your specific overall relative seniority.

Scoreboard you are a class act: I like how you tell us how it isn't so bad losing over 80% of our captain slots. And how now - you are screwed because a few AAI pilots will be able to upgrade in 2015. UFB.

 

[vixin]

Steve Chase Knew the day or the announcement to purchase AAI. He states that in his letter to the association

 

[ILUVURBANMYERS]

Re read Daddy's post-SHACK! He gets it. The hand wringing by GK is scarey! He is surrounded by non aviation lap dogs. I was in a PT last month and the training center was FULL of pilots on trip pull all wearing slacks and button up shirts in some committee of some sort. Chief pilot/check airman symposium-you get the pic. In the sim all we did was BS RNP and DDA non precision work that you NEVER do on the line. Hold on the ride is gonna be rough.

 

[Lear70]

SWAPA was again working on RoR as recently as early last month (April) in conjunction with SL12. They were unable to get the company to buy off on it, so it died... for now.

I have to say, with the way SWA flexes CA staffing up and down monthly, I have no idea how they're going to function without a Lance CA program to act as a shock absorber to the system and without RoR.

For the sake of our CA's, I'm glad it's dead for now, but overall, I've always expected a RoR for displaced CA's, just not sure how it would work in the SWA system where upgrading/downgrading guys every month seems to be the norm, rather than other carriers where it's the exception.

And for the record, Steve Chase knew his letter would be read by everyone on both sides, both labor and management alike, just as our MEC and even our management teams know everything they put in writing gets EVERYWHERE and analyzed 5 ways from Sunday.

As such, a little less jubilation would have gone a long way towards not alienating an already inflamed pilot group at AirTran and brought us much closer together as union pilot brethren moving forward.

Not to mention the ill-worded statement that SWAPA knew of the early retirements of the 717 way back during SLI negotiations and management letters and emails to us as recently as 60 days ago say there was no plan for their early departure.

Less than stellar communiques'. I understand that he is wanting to celebrate a "win" for your pilot group, but coming at the expense of another group that you will eventually have to work with, it could have been tamed down a bit for future relations between our groups.

And that's all I have to say about that...

 

[Ty Webb]

With all do respect in SL9 that was not even given a chance to be voted on every AirTran captain was seat protected. I would've had 160 people junior to me holding the left seat. SWAPA reccomended we vote it in. So SWAPA, in my own opinion and based on that fact, had no previous knowledge of the 717 going away.

Actually, The first proposal (SIA #1) had a clause that would have lost the 717CA seats as well.

 

[waveflyer]

You guys have serious reading comprehension issues:


Quote:
This announcement is one SWAPA has planned for from the original announcement of the purchase of AirTran Airways.

Steve Chase

Lear, please acknowledge that you did not "KNOW" two months ago that the 717's would be sold- yet still urged your MEC to plan for that contingency.
Thats all Chase was saying. Justifying their efforts.

 

[Lear70]

Yes, that's exactly what I said... we didn't "know" and were actually being told by Southwest management that there were no plans to get rid of them earlier than previously-planned.

But the writing (for those of us with a little forward thinking) was on the wall. I took a lot of heat from a couple reps saying I was seeing "black helicopter" conspiracies and we shouldn't waste our time... that's how convinced we were of what Southwest had told us about the 717's being here at least through the integration.

Hell, one of the MC members even made a $100 bet with me just 3 weeks ago that the majority of the 717's would make the transition... he hasn't emailed me back about paying up yet.

I pushed anyway, and they started planning.

If that's what Chase is saying, that's fine, but it was worded poorly when combined with the rest of the letter and didn't come across that way. At least not on the AirTran side... Perception filters our reality I guess.

 

[SWA Bubba]

.... with the way SWA flexes CA staffing up and down monthly...

.... in the SWA system where upgrading/downgrading guys every month seems to be the norm, rather than other carriers where it's the exception....

This is actually a mischaracterization, Lear. Captains don't get upgraded and downgraded every month. When there's no growth, the bottom few guys get displaced between domiciles on a monthly basis. When there's growth (as there is now recently) that doesn't happen. ROR (as I believe most airline CBAs have) would help those junior few get back to their chosen domiciles. SWAPA has never had it, and it's never been an issue with a continually-growing company. Since we're not that anymore, people's voices on this subject are getting louder.

As far as up/downgrades, that's mostly a thing of the past. It used to be (with continual growth) that you had senior FOs (who bid Xmas vacations the year before) becoming Captains during the year. That meant you had senior CAs and junior CAs with Xmas vacations to cover (too many). The company traditionally added extra CAs for December, and bumped them back down in Jan when they weren't needed. Now, with a lot less growth, that's not as much of an issue. In fact, there was no downgrades (and few upgrades) for the last two Christmas seasons. The last involuntary CA downgrade was in Jan 2010.

Bubba

 

[Lear70]

Ah, I gotcha. Most of us were under the impression that the RoR being worked on was for Captain seats.

Thanks for the clarification.