SWAPA calls all former AirTran pilots

[Bob Dylan]

Come on Lear, pull your head out of your butt.

You're being played. Who benefits if this deal causes turmoil within the company?

 

[ivauir]

autonomy - immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence

If MEC members are in the room providing "thoughts and input" your MC is not autonomous.

 

[Cometman]

pull your head out of your butt.

You're being played. Who benefits if this deal causes turmoil within the company?[/QUOTE]

Becareful Bob, you will be banned. When somebody has their head that far up it is impossible to pull it out.

 

[Lear70]

Becareful Bob, you will be banned. When somebody has their head that far up it is impossible to pull it out.

After your "colorful" and completely inaccurate PM rants the last couple weeks, I see you still haven't found any rational reason to sling mud at me, yet continue to do so. Well done.

autonomy - immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence

If MEC members are in the room providing "thoughts and input" your MC is not autonomous.

Yes, the MC is autonomous. Just because someone is present to give their opinion doesn't mean that person has any "authority". Although LH is a de-facto member of EVERY committee by ALPA bylaws, he holds no special place of power on any such committee.

I've flown with 2 of our MC members for over a decade, and have known one of your own MC members just as long (we were all at a prior company together). I know them to be level-headed folks who will do the best they can to come to a reasonable agreement.

Beyond that, I'm just not commenting, no matter how many digs people make.

 

[Flying the Line]

I find it interesting that no one has brought up the fact that Skywest bought Express Jet and merged them into ASA, which did not force the Skywest pilots into SLI with a company they bought. The similarities are there with Guadalupe.

 

[redflyer65]

Because nobody wants to believe that's a possiblity. But the reality is it could happen if Gary wants to pull that ripcord.

I get the impression that the ALPA guys are grasping at straws by wanting to meet with SW management. I don't blame them for asking, but they are doing all they can to get into the transition agreement and it ain't gonna happen.

 

[humveedriver]

I find it interesting that no one has brought up the fact that Skywest bought Express Jet and merged them into ASA, which did not force the Skywest pilots into SLI with a company they bought. The similarities are there with Guadalupe.

I sorta brought it up in another thread, about keeping us seperate. The SWA guys said that they are protected by their contract. They said that if AirTran is operated seperate, SWA has to basically add 4 aircraft to SWA for everyone 1 aircraft added to AT. That covers growth. But it doesn't stop them from doing this;

Keeping Airtran seperate (working under the AT labor contracts) and restructuring our flying. In other words, sending the 717 to DAL and OAK to do shorthaul flying. HOLY COW! DAL is senior! SWA wouldn't displace their top 10% of the seniority list. Would they? Keeping the same 52 AirTran 737's and making them the international fleet. They are configured differently in the cabin and flight deck.. we are cerftified to do Cat III using autoland and not the HUD. These are the reasons I don't just freak out say "SWA just bought.. I won the lottery". The real offer isn't on the table yet. I don't know what SWA plans are. In addition to that, I think the DOJ looks at a larger airlines purchasing smaller airlines with the intent of somehow elimanating that competition. So my enthusiam for the deal will depend alot on what the BOD see's, the DOJ see's, and ultimately how the SWA management really intends on using the new toy they are buying.

 

[frqntflyr]

Just a quick thought...An arbitrator is not capable of making UNIQUE judgments such as pay protection, special bases, etc...

 

[S3sundowner]

Humvee, I think that the intent is to fully integrate the two operations. However, swa management is also very aware of the pitfalls of this business, and hence, will protect what they now have. If airtran, as a company, comes over nicely and happily, it should be a good ride.

 

[roughneck]

An arbitrator is not capable of making UNIQUE judgments such as pay protection, special bases, etc...

That is true but they will take the acquiring parties (SWA) requests and will build the award accordingly. Fair and equitable has already been taken care of with the huge contract windfall that every AirTran pilot will receive and if all AirTran pilots are in Atlanta for the rest of their careers then they retain exactly what they brought to the table.

 

[Sy-bill]

This has become so interesting. How this has evolved into so much bad information being thrown around by people who "say" they are in the know.

Airtran pilots arguing what their rights are vs Southwest pilots trying to hang on to what they have while wanting a reasonable gain because of the Airtran pilots natural gains from the Swapa contract.

As much inaccurate information that has been shared there are only the facts that an arbitrator will be interested.

1) This is an aquisition
2) The Airtran pilots will naturally experience a large gain in Pay, QOL and benefits.
3) The SWA pilots will experience a zero natural gain.
4) Potential growth means NOTHING to an arbitrator.
5) An arbitrator will NOT give a 6 year Airtran Captain a seat that a 9 year FO does not have.
6) There will NOT be a staple of the entire Airtran list on the bottom of the SWA list.
7) Career expectations and, fair and equitable will be the only areas considered by an arbitrator.

SWAPA is using who is considered by far the best law firm for these types of integration situations. Airtran has the third. Guess who has number two on retainer?
The difference between the best and second best is huge. The difference between the second and third even more.

I know that some do not like what I am saying but it is the truth. Airtran pilots are better off negotiating in good faith and coming to an agreement with SWAPA instead of going to arbitration. Swapa appears to have a very competent, experienced team taking care of their interests. With the attorneys they have any betting man puts their money that the SWA pilots will also be experiencing gains as they reasonably should.

Do not under estimate the power of family with SWA. If there seems to be a real concern for the health of their culture, no matter who has quoted what, SWA is well positioned with a number of legal options to ascertain their culture stays in place.

It is automatic that the Airtran pilots have career gains. Not at all for the SWA pilots. Fair and equitable is where if there is a gain or loss from one group, the other must experience the same.

As long as cooler heads prevail (obviously not here on FI) both sides should be moderately satisfied with the final result of the integration by SWAPA and ALPA. If this goes to arbitration, largely it will shift more favorably for the SWA pilots.

Best of luck to all of you.

 

[S3sundowner]

Sybill, one of the best posts on the subject. The trannies would be well advised to make a deal with swapa.

 

[shagadelic]

Some interesting comments by our negotiating chair if you haven't read them yet.

http://www.swapaluv.com/

 

[DougCorp-9]

Sounds like someone doesn't want to go to arbitration.

 

[dicko]

Some interesting comments by our negotiating chair if you haven't read them yet.

http://www.swapaluv.com/

It seems Baghdad Bob is alive and well. His new Gig is managing the SWAPA Propaganda Machine.

Here's a live link to the SWAPA interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s27Oq5ot0ZI