SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[rajflyboy]

Southwest

The best airline ever in existence on earth!!

You guys are true GODS of the airline industry.

 

[Scoot 11]

In one post you mention smaller footprint, and the next you try to justify the crap out of your mouth. Your an idiot.

Deleted...I see he apologized.
Well done.

 

[SKC]

Its a good point that most of S America is east of miami- but i think HOU would provide more O&D traffic- and only etops airplanes can do the straight shot from florida to north coast of SA due to distance between the DR/Haiti and Aruba-
(just eyeballing it- correct me if I'm wrong) whereas HOU routes are close to land all the way south from that angle.

Wave we could/can operate throughout the entire Carrib/Mex/northern S. Am without ETOPS. Even after passing Dom Rep, you always have the VI, Antigua, Ft de France, Curacao, Margarita, etc, so you're rarely more than a couple hundred miles from an alternate.

 

[SKC]

Southwest

The best airline ever in existence on earth!!

You guys are true GODS of the airline industry.

It's about time you finally got on board.

 

[rajflyboy]

It's about time you finally got on board.

No doubt!

You guys are the greatest!

 

[dicko]

The geography/geometry is hard to eyeball. I still look at the Latin 7/8 chart to gain better understanding of whats where. Essentially you can go anywhere in the gulf, down the Caribbean island chain, to include overflying Cuba all day long with out ETOPs. You just need rafts. That buys us a 405 NM limit. But then you also need VHF radio coverage. Which you do in the Gulf with some floating transmitters out there and of course the various islands. When we decided to go to Bermuda, that opened up the ETOPs question, but it was determined we could still go there using rafts and HF radio (sat back up). That also opened the door to using WATRS routing between PR and BWI.

A good summary. Houston to Lima Peru (LIM) is a great circle distance of 2700 NM. That's 6:45 hours at 400kts (GS).

If you're bored here's a Great circle mapper that you can plug in routes or ETOPS requirements etc.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hou-lim&R=9380nm@LHR&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=400&SU=kts

 

[waveflyer]

Cool, I see.
So is etops only for Hawaii?

 

[SKC]

Cool, I see.
So is etops only for Hawaii?

For us, yes. That is until we begin European ops in 10 years. Aside from HI, we won't be operating anywhere that would be further than 60 mins from an alternate.

 

[humveedriver]

This is a decent ETOPs breakdown;

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/faqs/etopseropsenroutealt.pdf

Couple of other things;

1. 60 minutes=405nm
2. 2 hour reserve rule or "island rule": is how we dispatch to BDA. If there is no suitable alternate (because destination is a remote island), you must carry two hours of reserve fuel. No hold or extra percentage required. Most carriers use a mainland alternate if the wx is remotely sketchy.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

United's Message to employees re: Hobby Int'l

You may have seen news reports about Southwest's (WN) proposal to begin international flights out of HOU (Houston's Hobby Airport). United is opposed to this plan and we will be reaching out to Houston co-workers to help us send that message to Mayor Annise Parker and the City Council. The proposal would negatively impact our IAH hub operation and result in less international flying by all carriers out of IAH, hurting the city of Houston.
One of the reasons that Houston's economy is so strong is the connecting air passenger traffic that powers IAH, filling planes to destinations around the world on flights that the city's local traffic alone couldn't support. Those flights create jobs. A second international airport would dilute IAH's international traffic, stretch scarce federal customs resources and make Houston an unattractive destination for passengers and a more costly one for carriers. We welcome new international flights at IAH, where the international gates and existing customs facility can easily accommodate more flights.
Congressmen Kevin Brady and Al Green wrote a letter to Mayor Parker opposing the idea of a second international airport in Houston, saying, "Doing so will ultimately reduce the benefits of Houston's prior strategic investments in both airports and turn this into a competition with itself for customers and limited federal resources." The congressmen also pointed out that IAH drove the equivalent of 172,000 full-time jobs in 2010.

 

[redflyer65]

United's Message to employees re: Hobby Int'l

The proposal would negatively impact our IAH hub operation and result in less international flying by all carriers out of IAH, hurting the city of Houston.

Pretty weak arguement.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Awe shucks. Poor guys might have to compete.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

Pretty weak arguement.

I couldn't agree more red, pretty weak indeed.
What about all the jobs that would be created at HOU? Is that in the next memo that will be sent out...



SLC

 

[flyingitalian]

The proposal would negatively impact our IAH hub operation and result in less international flying by all carriers out of IAH, hurting the city of Houston.

Last time I checked HOU was in the city of Houston too.

 

[jonjuan]

stretch scarce federal customs resources

pretty solid argument, especially with the current gubment trying to grow.

 

[waveflyer]

Last time I checked HOU was in the city of Houston too.

And a lot closer to much of the population centers- IAH is not close to a lot of the HOuston metroplex-
Definitely a weak argument- They're basically saying that even though SWA has increased traffic in every market it's ever opened, that this will be the one time it won't. Good luck- if united wins that argument it's only bc they paid the right people enough.

 

[SKC]

I'm only assuming that United is constructing the same letter to send to the mayor of Chicago. Because we all know that it's impossible for one major city to support two intl airports. It may even cause the local economy to collapse. I don't know how the oil and gas industry will be able to continue to operate with two intl airports. In 10 years Houston will only be a shell of its former self.

Houston, it was good knowing you.

 

[outerlimits]

pretty solid argument, especially with the current gubment trying to grow.

You have a good point. Actually the federal government should only allow one airport per city. Maybe even one airport per state.

The other cities need to shut down there second/ third airports .

 

[flyingitalian]

By the way, HOU already has Gubment customs employees and a customs building.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

By the way, HOU already has Gubment customs employees and a customs building.

Please refrain from posting facts here, carry on...


SLC

 

[Flopgut]

United v. Southwest  Whos the home team?

Southwest and United Airlines each dispatched a team to visit the Chronicle editorial board this week to make a pitch for their side in the battle over Hobby. Southwest seeks city approval to start international flights out of Hobby. United, based at Bush Intercontinental, opposes it.
There was some snickering over the fact that neither group of executives achieved an on-time arrival for its appointed 2 p.m. meeting (Southwest Tuesday, United Wednesday). Of course, the visitors may have been in the building but detained by the Chronicles version of TSA.
The two companies had very different messages, of course, but they had the same intro: Were the home team.
Uniteds coterie included Nene Foxhall, executive vice president of communications and government affairs. She had been with Houston-based Continental before its merger with United (and long before that, a Chronicle political editor).
We also want to remind you about the great things Continental before and United now have built with the city of Houston at Intercontinental and how important it is that that be maintained, Foxhall started out, referring to a billion dollars of investment at Bush since the mid-1990s and another $700 million in the works.
The fact is we employ about 17,000 people now. Thats almost the same as before we merged. Were the number two private employer in the city, she said. The Chronicles most recent listing ranks United fifth.
She continued:

We have added more flights, more destinations at this hub than at any hub in our system (since the merger). Houston is a centerpiece for our strategy in this new airline. I still live here. (CEO) Jeff Smisek still lives here. His wife teaches at Rice.
​

And then this:

You still see Uniteds banner on the halls of every arts organization in this city. You see our logo on the T-shirts of organizations like the Texas Southern University debate team when theyre in Europe, where weve flown them every year for the last 16 years and intend to keep flying them.
​

Of course, the elephant in the room during this monologue was the approximately 1,500 formerly Continental corporate jobs that got moved from Houston to Chicago as a result of the merger.
I know there are a lot of hard feelings about the headquarters move, Foxhall acknowledged, but I just want to remind you how important Houston is to us.
Southwest had CEO Gary Kelly do much of the talking.

Houston is one of our original service points and we like to feel that were a hometown airline here, and certainly very, very devoted to the city and community. Houstons been good for us, and hopefully, in turn, weve been good for Houston.
​

And:

We have grown from very modest beginnings as you all know. When we launched service in 1971 to Houston we had three airplanes in three cities and that was it. We started out as a Texas corporation. We are still a Texas corporation. Im sure we are the largest company that is incorporated in the state of Texas.
​

Ron Ricks, Southwests executive vice president and chief legal and regulatory officer, reminded the editorial board, Southwest Airlines reopened Hobby after it shut down when Bush was built. We reopened it and we built the new airport for the city of Houston at no cost to city taxpayers&
Kelly also told the board:

Houston is our kind of city, number one, but we know that youre interested in growth, we know that you are all about competition and as we think about how we want to grow internationally, Houston is a place that we want to be.
​

While the airlines could investigate gateways to the south through Austin, St. Louis or New Orleans, Kelly said, its not.
This isnt a bake-off. Were only talking to the city of Houston, Kelly said.

 

[Flopgut]

I have no idea why it isn't talked about that SWA used to fly to both Houston airports? There is no more perfectly damning evidence that SWA can not fly international on a level playing fiield than this stunt. CAL put a whuppin on them, and that's when SWA had fuel hedges. Could we do it again? Yup....

SWA get's this done? Look for United to go to Hobby and match them. Then we'll all get to see what got SWA off the ground in the first place. SWA will have the city/govt remove their competition.... Just like Love Field all those years ago.

 

[redflyer65]

Flopgut,

Major airlines have tried to come into Love recently and usually leave on their own. Nobody forced them to do anything.

It's still open for competition NOW.

 

[outerlimits]

I have no idea why it isn't talked about that SWA used to fly to both Houston airports? There is no more perfectly damning evidence that SWA can not fly international on a level playing fiield than this stunt. CAL put a whuppin on them, and that's when SWA had fuel hedges. Could we do it again? Yup....

SWA get's this done? Look for United to go to Hobby and match them. Then we'll all get to see what got SWA off the ground in the first place. SWA will have the city/govt remove their competition.... Just like Love Field all those years ago.

I agree with you flop. Only one airport per city should be allowed .

Maybe even one airport per state

You are a smart man, flop.

 

[Flopgut]

I agree with you flop. Only one airport per city should be allowed .

Maybe even one airport per state

You are a smart man, flop.

I realize you're being sarcastic. But you are also making my point. Gary Kelly in fact does want ONE airport in Houston. Just one for swa's international operation ONLY... You're right, it does sound stupid!

Notice he's not even considering Austin or San Antinio, or anywhere else. "This is not a bake sale" He says. In other words, this isn't about a new international operation on the part of SWA. This is GK trying to hustle a new airport deal where he can leach off every other airline at IAH.

Two international airports splits a lot of the needed infrastructure in half, right? What if the city decided to balance all the international flights/airlines that fly to Houston between the airports equally? In other words, GK can go ahead and build his dream termainal at Hobby, but half the flights to IAH are going to relocate to Hobby. Do you think he'd be interested in that? Of course not! He wants this for SWA only...

 

[Bwipilot]

This is GK trying to hustle a new airport deal where he can leach off every other airline at IAH.

Sounds like you're scared to compete against SWA. It's sad the only way you believe you can compete is crony capitalism.

 

[Bwipilot]

This is GK trying to hustle a new airport deal where he can leach off every other airline at IAH.

It sounds like you can don't think you can compete against SWA on a level playing field. We all know that it costs a ton of money to run each city in an operation. Demanding that SWA fly out of IAH is a red herring: you and Unical know that'll raise the costs for the SWA operation--plus deny SWA of all it's connecting passengers.

How about Houston build a new runway and terminal at SWA at IAH and allow SWA to have priority for that runway (to not increase delays) so the city can close down Hobby? Are you up for that? I know it'd increase Unicals costs a lot--but at least it'd be a level playing field. Still up for it?

You're arguments for crony capitalism to save the day are as weak as a one legged stool.

 

[texman]

Bingo!

 

[Flopgut]

It sounds like you can don't think you can compete against SWA on a level playing field. We all know that it costs a ton of money to run each city in an operation. Demanding that SWA fly out of IAH is a red herring: you and Unical know that'll raise the costs for the SWA operation--plus deny SWA of all it's connecting passengers.

How about Houston build a new runway and terminal at SWA at IAH and allow SWA to have priority for that runway (to not increase delays) so the city can close down Hobby? Are you up for that? I know it'd increase Unicals costs a lot--but at least it'd be a level playing field. Still up for it?

You're arguments for crony capitalism to save the day are as weak as a one legged stool.

Would you read the thread please? I'm not afraid of SWA at IAH in the least bit. They used to fly there and we [CAL] beat them in a straight up showdown. And it even took place when SWA had a better fuel hedging position. Afraid to compete? I'm pretty sure we can kick their butt again.

Why would SWA be entitled to their own runway at IAH? No one else has their own runway at a major airport. Why do you guys think arguing for something like that makes sense, but suggesting SWA come to IAH and duke it out (like everybody else does) is "crony capitolism"? Are you reading what you're writing? It's crazy bud....

 

[waveflyer]

Dude, here's the real question- why would swa be forced to operate up in IAH? Why would they not have the right to fly international out of hobby?
And why isn't the reverse argument true? Why isn't continental down in hobby competing?