SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[outerlimits]

Oak

United to pull out of Oakland airport in June

United to pull out of Oakland airport in June - San Jose Mercury News

By Matthias Gafni and Rick Hurd
Contra Costa Times
Posted: 04/09/2012 06:04:34 AM PDT
Updated: 04/09/2012 06:04:51 AM PDT

OAKLAND -- United Airlines will terminate its operations at Oakland International airport on June 4, an airport representative said Saturday night.
"We're very disappointed that we're losing our longtime partner," said airport spokeswoman Rosemary Barnes. United has serviced Oakland airport for 75 years.
However, United only serves 1.4 percent of the airport's passengers with 11 weekly flights to Denver, the airlines hub.
"The financial performance of the flights has made the losses too great to allow us to maintain the service," United spokeswoman Mary Clark told a USA Today blog.
Clark tells the blog United "will contact customers currently booked on our flights between Oakland and Denver and offer to either reaccommodate them on other flights or provide a refund."
United will continue flying out of San Francisco International and San Jose airports.​

Southwest needs to pull out of OAK and only fly into SFO. It is the right thing to do.

Help me out here Flop

 

[ASADFW7]

The topic isn't flop against SWA, though it has turned into such. Please try to get back to topic versus username against the board please.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

HAS recommends HOU international service

In the midst of a heated battle between Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV) and United Continental Holdings Inc. (NYSE: UAL), the Houston Airport System declared its support for Southwest's efforts to allow international flight offerings at Hobby Airport.

Citing a $1.6 billion annual economic impact and the creation of more than 10,000 jobs, Mario Diaz, HAS’ director of aviation, recommended April 9 that Mayor Annise Parker approve Southwest’s plans to expand the federal inspection services facility at Hobby. If the mayor accepts this recommendation, Houston City Council would vote to approve Southwest’s proposal, which would allow the airline to begin getting federal approvals to fly international commercial flights.

HAS based its recommendation on a study from InterVistas Consulting LLC and GRA Inc. that found Chicago-based United and its affiliates have a “near monopoly” on Latin America-area services and having an international airport at Hobby would create positive competition, along with lower air fares.

United was not pleased with HAS’ decision since the airline has been arguing that if Southwest were allowed to operate international flights at Hobby, United would have to displace 1,300 employees at George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH), which is Houston’ only airport operating commercial international flights.

In a statement, United said of the HAS study that “the assumptions that underlie the analysis are so contrived that it is clear that they were designed to reach a predetermined conclusion.”

United also argues that splitting Houston’s international air service will create a negative impact on IAH, where United is investing $700 million to redevelop Terminal B. Instead, the airline is lobbying to have international Southwest flights at IAH.

However, Mario Diaz, argued an opposing point in his statement.

“I have concluded given Southwest’s existing and sizable domestic network operation at Hobby, it would not be reasonable to require the airline to relocate to Bush Intercontinental Airport, or even conduct split operations,” he said.

Dallas-based Southwest applauded HAS’ decision, and Gary Kelly, the airline’s CEO, said this proves that international travelers believe competition between airlines is a good thing.

 

[Flopgut]

Houston is going to need to decide if they are a leading city in the petroleum, oil and gas services industry. Or if they are in the sun tan oil business...IAH is going to take a big hit.

If this had been a possibility 20 years ago, I'm quite sure CAL would have been doing it. Shoot, TI was there flying to Mexico before SWA started. I think. Frankly, if this is approved, SWA should go to the end of the list of airlines who have first crack at it.

United/CAL indeed does have a large presence at IAH. But it's no where near the kind of fortress hub DFW was. We don't taxi slow. We don't clog up the airport just for fun. Real crappy thing to have the officials spoil a game.

Ain't over yet.

 

[scoreboardII]

Yep, nothing like a perpetuating a monopoly to keep things fair.

 

[Flopgut]

Heh, your airport. That's good stuff right there.

I can't quite tell if you're just a person that is so arrogant to think that everyone should conform to your rules, or someone that is so afraid of one more bad thing happening to your company that you're just circling the wagons and using the "competition only IAH" as a excuse.

Yeah, I am tired of bad things happening to my company. Between UAL and CAL we've got 5 BKs (I think), Lorenzo, Smisek, Tilton, lost two planes on 911, lost pensions, turned down twice for a loan from ATSB, and our latest merger is a plate of human crap. And I know the SWA "warriors" applaud every aweful thing that hits us. Fine. Even so, I don't wish any of that on them.

This is a stupid move by the city. I've read the Chronicle blogs, and it's abundantly clear there would be no support for this if we were still just Continental. Not sure we desreve this (I am sure SWA doesn't deserve this sort of consideration), we did a lot for Houston. SWA hasn't done crap for this city except pass through.

Yep, nothing like a perpetuating a monopoly to keep things fair.

What's a bigger monopoly? What you've got at Love (which is exactly what you want to do at Hobby)? Or what we're talking about at IAH?

 

[Flopgut]

What is wrong with starting service where there is none. It's called good business.

The only reason there is no intl service there is it's not allowed. I mean, come on: You understand if it was allowed some airline would already be doing it? And it would not be SWA...

It's not good business to exclude my company for decades from the same opportunity SWA now wants.

 

[taxicabdriver]

I don't understand why UAL couldn't compete with SWA wherever they are? They no longer have the advantage with the fuel hedges, have older and less fuel-efficient airplanes, and they have higher wages to pay their pilots....What am I missing?

 

[humveedriver]

FYI Flop; Southwest is starting service out of other Texas cities to Mexico. They are just doing it with their lower cost wholly owned subsidiary.

http://www.bizjournals.com/mobile/austin/news/2012/02/03/airtran-plans-austin-to-cancun-flights.html


http://pressroom.airtran.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=201565&p=RssLanding&cat=news&id=1630841

 

[SKC]

I've never enjoyed watching other airlines suffer. I have friends throughout this industry. Why would I want them to have to deal with BK, or any other rough time this industry can throw out? That would be pretty stupid.

What I don't enjoy is other companies doing everything in their power to limit my income (and my company's) potential. Southwest has done nothing to prohibit any other company from operating from DAL or HOU, so why should we sit around and let Unitental whine and cry and say they'll lose thousands of jobs, bla bla bla just because SWA wants to operate some intl trips from Hobby? How the city of Houston will lose jobs because of it. It's all just hogwash.

You fly out of whatever airports you want to operate from. We'll operate out of whatever airports we want to operate from. You make your money. We'll make our money.

If you're truly as good as you say, you don't have anything to worry about.

 

[waveflyer]

Btw-
There are no rules, contracts, or agreements against flying international out of hobby-
This decision, the way I understand it is all about united/cal making an objection

 

[fam62c]

FYI Flop; Southwest is starting service out of other Texas cities to Mexico. They are just doing it with their lower cost wholly owned subsidiary.

http://www.bizjournals.com/mobile/austin/news/2012/02/03/airtran-plans-austin-to-cancun-flights.html


http://pressroom.airtran.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=201565&p=RssLanding&cat=news&id=1630841

Where is SW going to get the planes to add all this international service and add large amounts of flying from Dallas in 2014 as well? 737 production is sold out and their deliveries will be used to replace older 737's and/or 717's. You can add ASM's be replacing smaller planes with 737-800's but you can't go to more places without more airframes. Are they going to drop some other markets to make room for new ones? They are making announcements like they are growing but they are not growing the fleet size; where do the planes come from?

 

[Scoot 11]

Btw-
There are no rules, contracts, or agreements against flying international out of hobby-
This decision, the way I understand it is all about united/cal making an objection

It's so funny listening to all you SWA crybabies and complaining about UAL and their objections. I didn't hear one of you crybabies when SWA was complaining to the DOJ about when the US/DL slot swap in LGA/DCA was going on? Don't dare complain about SWA.............NOOOOOOOO WAY!!!!!!!!!!
The hypocrisy on this forum is deplorable!

 

[27 driver]

The only reason there is no intl service there is it's not allowed. I mean, come on: You understand if it was allowed some airline would already be doing it? And it would not be SWA...

It's not good business to exclude my company for decades from the same opportunity SWA now wants.

So you are saying they should add more flights to an already saturated market in IAH? Why not look for other un-tapped or under served markets. I guess I just don't understand your objections to this.

 

[XR650R]

Where is SW going to get the planes to add all this international service and add large amounts of flying from Dallas in 2014 as well? 737 production is sold out and their deliveries will be used to replace older 737's and/or 717's. You can add ASM's be replacing smaller planes with 737-800's but you can't go to more places without more airframes. Are they going to drop some other markets to make room for new ones? They are making announcements like they are growing but they are not growing the fleet size; where do the planes come from?

Gary Kelly has stated that our -300/-500 retirement schedule is flexible. Not that that's an ideal situation as these airframes are a bit long in tooth.

 

[XR650R]

And.... I wouldn't expect UAL/CAL do anything differently. They have a right to try to protect their market share. Truth be known though, they and everyone else know that these gates will be built and SWA will be flying south out of HOU in 2015. I do however think its a very cheap shot that Smisek has stated that 1300 employees would be "displaced" as a result of SWA opening up these gates. He is in effect, ransoming these employees as a way of swaying public opinion and the Mayor's office. Very cheap shot.

 

[humveedriver]

Where is SW going to get the planes to add all this international service and add large amounts of flying from Dallas in 2014 as well? 737 production is sold out and their deliveries will be used to replace older 737's and/or 717's. You can add ASM's be replacing smaller planes with 737-800's but you can't go to more places without more airframes. Are they going to drop some other markets to make room for new ones? They are making announcements like they are growing but they are not growing the fleet size; where do the planes come from?

The markets are being dropped on the AT side. 22 out of 69 will remain.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/...es-which-airline-cities-make-the-cut/608722/1

Also, SWA will get 20 of our 737s over the next 2.5 years. So far 32 737s are in limbo on the AT side to support int'l ops until SWA can start that service. GK just put out 18 months at the earliest before SWA sells its first international ticket. AT also had some deliveries that will go to SWA as well. All part of fleet replacement. In May AirTran will start flying to Mexico out TX for the first time. The IT issues prevent SWA/AT from code sharing therefore, AT will also start intra-state flying to feed those international flights. If SWA had a magic wand to make all the transition issues disappear I'm sure they would use it.

 

[Flopgut]

Btw-
There are no rules, contracts, or agreements against flying international out of hobby-
This decision, the way I understand it is all about united/cal making an objection

There most certainly are. The Houston city council has to lift the non-international status from Hobby. That's an agreement they made with CAL that allowed us to feel confident we could spend billions (yep, with a B) on the airport. It'd be one heck of a backstab after they've extracted so much money from CAL/UAL (and our customers) to welch on this good faith deal and let SWA kneecap us.

 

[Double Shot]

I'm all for kneecapping. Hey flop did you find your bs schedules of cal flying cleveland to hobby yet? Didn't think so. Only thing that came into hobby since 1995 from continental was either a emb120 , atr , or a beech 1900.

 

[Flopgut]

What I don't enjoy is other companies doing everything in their power to limit my income (and my company's) potential. Southwest has done nothing to prohibit any other company from operating from DAL or HOU, so why should we sit around and let Unitental whine and cry and say they'll lose thousands of jobs.

Your company's potential? Among your "potential" are you counting the possibility you can/should be allowed to subvert good faith agreements between municipalities and other airlines? Because that's precious few steps from SWA "warriors" someday showing up at my house and slashing the tires on my airport car! What, are we suppose to not take issue with these antics and subterfuge? You get to run wild and we've got to obey the rules?

And btw: you need to get spooled up on the Love Field deal. Your statement "SWA has never done anything to prohibit any other company..." Yike! You ought to know better than that...

 

[Flopgut]

I'm all for kneecapping.

Yeah, I'd like to take a swing or two myself...

 

[SKC]

Because that's precious few steps from SWA "warriors" someday showing up at my house and slashing the tires on my airport car!

That would be awesome! Great idea.

 

[waveflyer]

Source flop?
I cannot find any such agreement and our management has told us that none exists-
Give us a link-

But I wonder- you aren't the only CAL guy here, why isnt anyone joining your debate?

 

[Flopgut]

Wave: I'd rather not post a link right now. There is polling going on and I'd rather not hand you guys the link so you can vote against me. Currently the United position is leading in the poll, even though all united.com IPs are being blocked from voting (nice, huh?)

All my co-workers are over on APC arguing about SLI, the contract and the end of the world. Debating you guys is a nice diversion for me...

I don't think you'll get the real story from anybody on your end. The SWA spin machine is pretty powerful....

 

[Ex737Driver]

I think a lot of animosity concerning the expansion at HOU stems from the observation that whatever SWA wants, SWA asks for, in whatever city, SWA gets. It appears that politicians, economic leaders, and local the population salivate at the prospect of expanding SWA in ANY city.

I don't blame SWA for wanting this in the least, as the low hanging fruit in the US is gone. This is evident by SWA flying out of LGA, EWR and BWI, three of the most delay prone airports. International flying is their next logical step that goes hand and hand with the purchase of AAI.

I think most people would like to see due dilligence done with HOU expansion before hearing from Houson leaders that it's simply going to happen.

 

[humveedriver]

I think you meant PHL not BWI.

 

[outerlimits]

I'm all for kneecapping. Hey flop did you find your bs schedules of cal flying cleveland to hobby yet? Didn't think so. Only thing that came into hobby since 1995 from continental was either a emb120 , atr , or a beech 1900.

Nothing wrong with that. Hopefully The new UAL will be like DAL and have over 650 RJs doing there flying.

 

[bizicmo]

I'm all for kneecapping. Hey flop did you find your bs schedules of cal flying cleveland to hobby yet? Didn't think so. Only thing that came into hobby since 1995 from continental was either a emb120 , atr , or a beech 1900.

737's go there every week on maintenace runs so I'm going to call BS on your call about only emb120, atr or 1900 being the only thing in continental colors going to hobby since 1995.

 

[scoreboardII]

Wave: I'd rather not post a link right now. There is polling going on and I'd rather not hand you guys the link so you can vote against me.

You mean this one:

http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/2...-to-begin-international-flights-from-houston/

everyone please vote accordingly

 

[outerlimits]

Wave: I'd rather not post a link right now. There is polling going on and I'd rather not hand you guys the link so you can vote against me.

You mean this one:

http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/2...-to-begin-international-flights-from-houston/

everyone please vote accordingly

Voting on that pole is the same as voting if you want to vote a free market.

Vote yes if you want to allow Walmart, Target,Costco, Sams

Vote No if you only want only small mom and pop stores.